DHT Cream Plus Testosterone Propionate = Major Libido Boost

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ziegen said:
The reason why it takes weeks with TRT in most cases is because they use longer esters
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This is not why it takes weeks. Your levels after just a couple injections of a long ester are already 60-80% of your final max serum levels. If it were levels alone that determined the effects, you would have 60-80% of the max benefits at that moment. Why don't you?

Sure, there are some effects on neurotransmitters that can be felt immediately as changes in energy or mood. However, for other effects, the hormones bind to their receptors, activate gene transcription, and then changes start taking place which take time to unfold. How long? In some cases, depending on the effect, a long f*cking time!

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Onset of effects of testosterone treatment and time span until maximum effects are achieved

Testosterone has a spectrum of effects on the male organism. This review attempts to determine, from published studies, the time-course of the effects induced by testosterone replacement therapy from their first manifestation until maximum effects are ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Have patience.
 
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FunkOdyssey said:
This is not why it takes weeks. Your levels after just a couple injections of a long ester are already 60-80% of your final max serum levels. If it were levels alone that determined the effects, you would have 60-80% of the max benefits at that moment. Why don't you?

Sure, there are some effects on neurotransmitters that can be felt immediately as changes in energy or mood. However, for other effects, the hormones bind to their receptors, activate gene transcription, and then changes start taking place which take time to unfold. How long? In some cases, depending on the effect, a long f*cking time!

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Onset of effects of testosterone treatment and time span until maximum effects are achieved

Testosterone has a spectrum of effects on the male organism. This review attempts to determine, from published studies, the time-course of the effects induced by testosterone replacement therapy from their first manifestation until maximum effects are ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Have patience.
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I see, I mean I knew about receptor binding, but it always felt like the substances with shorter half lives kicked in faster. If I think about it honestly I was using Mast E 100mg/week and started feeling off after roughly 3 weeks, which is about the time of saturation, but potentially also receptor binding. Then I used Proviron 25mg/week, which has a half life of 12 hours, if I'm not mistaken, but it also took roughly 3 weeks to start to feel off. So two substances that work similarly, with different half lives, yet the effects kicked in roughly at the same time of use, 3 weeks.

Maybe with Test P it's different, because I was already using Test E prior, which means I had receptor binding already. Maybe Test P just ensured that my body had a break from constant hormones, which for whatever reason worked well for me, thus gave me the benefits. So this might've been a different scenario compared to adding a completely new substance.

Thanks, I won't worry about it too much and I'll just wait it out and see what happens.
 
Seagal said:
Your observed no skin irritation on the scrotum.... Sorry to ask but do you have any feeling down there?
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I actually had the same experience which was very counterintuitive. The same alphagels formula that burns the crap out of my delts and abdomen doesn't bother the thinner, more fragile genital skin. Go figure.
 
FunkOdyssey said:
I actually had the same experience which was very counterintuitive. The same alphagels formula that burns the crap out of my delts and abdomen doesn't bother the thinner, more fragile genital skin. Go figure.
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Strange. Complete opposite to alcohol reaction.
Then presumably good news for ziegen since it works for you
 
Seagal said:
Your observed no skin irritation on the scrotum.... Sorry to ask but do you have any feeling down there?
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All is normal yes, I don't get it either.

Seagal said:
Strange. Complete opposite to alcohol reaction.
Then presumably good news for ziegen since it works for you
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Well it's not supposed to contain any alcohol, I think DMSO is causing the irritation, but I don't know why it doesn't cause issues on the scrotum. In any case, scrotal absorption is better and there are no negative skin effects, so it's the perfect spot to apply.
 
ziegen said:
All is normal yes, I don't get it either.


Well it's not supposed to contain any alcohol, I think DMSO is causing the irritation, but I don't know why it doesn't cause issues on the scrotum. In any case, scrotal absorption is better and there are no negative skin effects, so it's the perfect spot to apply.
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Only if the DMSO doesn't harm the testicles. I hope it works very well without local side effects. Looking forward to your experience with it.
 
ziegen said:
All is normal yes, I don't get it either.


Well it's not supposed to contain any alcohol, I think DMSO is causing the irritation, but I don't know why it doesn't cause issues on the scrotum. In any case, scrotal absorption is better and there are no negative skin effects, so it's the perfect spot to apply.
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Any plans to apply it to ur penis?

That’s what I would do, if I were to order it, but if it ends up being irritating, idk if that would be sustainable, even if I did observe positive effects. I’m mainly looking for increased sensitivity. But improved libido and/ or erections wouldn’t bother me lol
 
Gman86 said:
Any plans to apply it to ur penis?

That’s what I would do, if I were to order it, but if it ends up being irritating, idk if that would be sustainable, even if I did observe positive effects. I’m mainly looking for increased sensitivity. But improved libido and/ or erections wouldn’t bother me lol
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Did you try regular testo cream? Jc
I believe the DMSO is not necessary down there, at least not at higher percentage.
 
Gman86 said:
Any plans to apply it to ur penis?

That’s what I would do, if I were to order it, but if it ends up being irritating, idk if that would be sustainable, even if I did observe positive effects. I’m mainly looking for increased sensitivity. But improved libido and/ or erections wouldn’t bother me lol
Click to expand...
I planned on applying it to the scrotum due to the highest absorption, which I am doing now, but I tried delts first because of the potential side effects to the skin. I didn't and don't plan on applying it to the penis, I mean applying to the scrotum and then the penis resting on it, some of it also gets on the bottom side of the penis, and no side effects there either, so I guess it's good? I'm primarily concerned with restoring my libido, which is at an absolute 0 at all times, everything else is good or at least good enough.
 
Perhaps using a 10% DHT transdermal would be better as it could likely be formulated without any DMSO at all.
On another note, do you think trans-scrotal DHT would be just as suppressive to the HPTA as trans-scrotal testosterone?
 
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Forty2 said:
...
On another note, do you think trans-scrotal DHT would be just as suppressive to the HPTA as trans-scrotal testosterone?
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No, it is less suppressive. Because DHT cannot be aromatized to an estrogen a significant source of negative feedback at the hypothalamus and pituitary is eliminated. However, the hypothalamus experiences negative feedback from androgens, so there can still be suppression, albeit to a lesser degree. This is why SERMs usually fail to activate the HPTA when they are added to TRT.
 
ziegen said:
I planned on applying it to the scrotum due to the highest absorption, which I am doing now, but I tried delts first because of the potential side effects to the skin. I didn't and don't plan on applying it to the penis, I mean applying to the scrotum and then the penis resting on it, some of it also gets on the bottom side of the penis, and no side effects there either, so I guess it's good? I'm primarily concerned with restoring my libido, which is at an absolute 0 at all times, everything else is good or at least good enough.
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You have zero libido? Me too, I have PFS
 
Has anyone of you (daily DHT users) lab values of free hormones (T,E2,DHT) while using DHT vs not using DHT?
 
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Seagal said:
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My reactions to this video:

Why is he always talking about the androgen receptor content of application sites? What does that matter? Why does he think that is relevant to absorption or metabolism? This is one of those moments where I feel like he reveals himself as being less than an expert.

I agree with the overall premise of the video: there are different outcomes that can be realized with different application sites, and we should not all be following the rouzier/nichols dogma that scrotal application is the only viable approach. Maybe the ratios of metabolites will differ for different people at different sites, and we all need to run individual experiments to discover how different parts of our bodies perform.

I'm surprised Cortex didn't mention skin thickness in that video, as it seems like a very important differentiator between sites. Instead he's talking about AR density. Maybe in practice, there is not a direct relationship between thickness and absorption? Only one way to find out.
 
FunkOdyssey said:
My reactions to this video:

Why is he always talking about the androgen receptor content of application sites? What does that matter? Why does he think that is relevant to absorption or metabolism? This is one of those moments where I feel like he reveals himself as being less than an expert.

I agree with the overall premise of the video: there are different outcomes that can be realized with different application sites, and we should not all be following the rouzier/nichols dogma that scrotal application is the only viable approach. Maybe the ratios of metabolites will differ for different people at different sites, and we all need to run individual experiments to discover how different parts of our bodies perform.

I'm surprised Cortex didn't mention skin thickness in that video, as it seems like a very important differentiator between sites. Instead he's talking about AR density. Maybe in practice, there is not a direct relationship between thickness and absorption? Only one way to find out.
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Ya I give him credit for being willing to experiment on himself as much as he is, and put out videos with HRT related concepts aren’t the same things other guys are putting out, but he does seem to embellish results quite a bit. Not saying he isn’t experiencing the results he does, but I just think he embellishes how effective it is for most other men. For example, he recently put out a video about how P5P is the most important add on to an HRT protocol. And I’m not denying that he experienced the positive benefits that he reported, and I’m not saying the literature doesn’t back up his claims, but then u go and read the comments, and there’s comment after comment about how P5P gave guys anxiety. So I think he tends to run with the positives that can be experienced, with certain things, and then kind of ignored the negatives/ downplays how many guys will either not experienced the benefits he does, or experience adverse effects, while doing the same thing he is. I enjoy his enthusiasm, and the new concepts he brings to the table, but it does seem like u have to take everything he says with a grain of salt for sure
 
Gman86 said:
Ya I give him credit for being willing to experiment on himself as much as he is, and put out videos with HRT related concepts aren’t the same things other guys are putting out, but he does seem to embellish results quite a bit. Not saying he isn’t experiencing the results he does, but I just think he embellishes how effective it is for most other men. For example, he recently put out a video about how P5P is the most important add on to an HRT protocol. And I’m not denying that he experienced the positive benefits that he reported, and I’m not saying the literature doesn’t back up his claims, but then u go and read the comments, and there’s comment after comment about how P5P gave guys anxiety. So I think he tends to run with the positives that can be experienced, with certain things, and then kind of ignored the negatives/ downplays how many guys will either not experienced the benefits he does, or experience adverse effects, while doing the same thing he is. I enjoy his enthusiasm, and the new concepts he brings to the table, but it does seem like u have to take everything he says with a grain of salt for sure
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Every single video is like some brand new life changing epithony I can smell through his bullshit marketing
He has some good Info but comes across too dude bro for me
He also needs to put a t shirt on for god sake mans in his 40s
Charging $100 for some source list is a joke too.
 
Beyond Testosterone Book by Nelson Vergel
Gman86 said:
Ya I give him credit for being willing to experiment on himself as much as he is, and put out videos with HRT related concepts aren’t the same things other guys are putting out, but he does seem to embellish results quite a bit. Not saying he isn’t experiencing the results he does, but I just think he embellishes how effective it is for most other men. For example, he recently put out a video about how P5P is the most important add on to an HRT protocol. And I’m not denying that he experienced the positive benefits that he reported, and I’m not saying the literature doesn’t back up his claims, but then u go and read the comments, and there’s comment after comment about how P5P gave guys anxiety. So I think he tends to run with the positives that can be experienced, with certain things, and then kind of ignored the negatives/ downplays how many guys will either not experienced the benefits he does, or experience adverse effects, while doing the same thing he is. I enjoy his enthusiasm, and the new concepts he brings to the table, but it does seem like u have to take everything he says with a grain of salt for sure
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You have to realize that he is selling content, he has to make it interesting to cash in on the clicks. That is my main issue with any of the YouTubers or wannabe gurus, they are motivated by money.
 
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