Feedback on lab results
- Thread starter Blkandrust
- Start date
Systemlord
Member
Context is crucial. I'm natural at 104 ng/dL, Free T in the 2.89 ng/dL, both well below range in the late afternoon and I feel amazing and look and feel better than when I was at 592 ng/dL when on TRT/Jatenzo.
Imagine I came here as a new member and posted my results without mentioning how I feel. Everyone would be giving me the wrong advice.
Not a complete set of lab work to be able to advise, CBC would be nice as well as knowing how well you're responding to treatment.
Vince
Super Moderator
Your labs look good. How are you feeling? Having any issues? If not, I see no reason to change anything.
madman
Super Moderator
Shooting in the dark here!
All we know is that you were clearly started on a high dose of T 200 mg split into daily injections and four months in yes you are hitting a high TT but this means nothing without knowing where the most important blood marker which would be free testosterone sits.
Top it off that you are also missing SHBG and critical blood markers RBCs, hemoglobin and hematocrit which will be driven up when using exogenous T.
We always want to test at the true trough (lowest point) before your next injection which would be 24 hrs post-injection seeing as you are injecting daily.
Even then there will not be a big difference between peak--->trough since you are injecting TC daily.
Although TT is important to know FT is what truly matters as it is the active unbound fraction of T responsible for the positive effects.
Most men on TTh are injecting 100-200 mg T/week whether once weekly or split into more frequent injections as in twice-weekly (every 3.5 days, M/W/F, EOD or daily.
Most men can easily hit a healthy let alone high trough FT injecting 100-150 mg T/week especially when split into more frequent injections
Yes there are outliers who may need the higher-end dose of 200 mg but is far from common as in RARE!
Those dime a dozen run of the mill T-clinics let alone bros/blast n cruisers stinking up those bum ass so called men's health forums littered on the internet are the ones pushing that more T is better mentality bullS**T!
Many men are overmedicated let alone from the get go!
Start low and slow we say!
Patience is key.
Always time to slowly increase the dose if need be!
Much harder coming down then going up, trust me on this one!
Will put it to you like this if you have low let alone normal SHBG with a high TT 1000 ng/dL your FT will be high/absurdly high and even if it turns out that you have higher SHBG then your FT could still be high with a high TT 1000 ng/dL but if you truly feel great overall are not experiencing any sides and blood markers are healthy then I would see no reason to change anything.
Need to let us know where your FT, SHBG, RBCs, hemoglobin and hematocrit sit!
Are you taking an AI?
madman
Super Moderator
Systemlord
Member
Fasting glucose 85, budging veins, ever increasing energy and erections improving every day. Even my sleep quality and duration has never been better.
How’s that for healthy?
I had a higher fasting glucose on TRT because I pushed beyond what my genetics can handle.
You of all people should know that it’s more than just about the absolute hormonal value that matters, the type of androgen receptor, androgen receptor sensitivity, receptor density, as well as the abilities for tissues to respond is a bigger factor than any hormonal lab value.
There’s only one possible explanation, I have very short gene CAG repeat numbers. A little testosterone goes a looong way for someone like me.
Also men with shorter gene CAG repeat numbers tend to have higher rates of prostate cancer. None so far in my family.
Last edited:
madman
Super Moderator
Sensitivity of the AR/CAG repeat length, distribution/density would make a shit lick a difference with a TT or better yet FT in the gutter!
Give your head a shake!
No way in hell you were running around with a TT in the low 100s and absurdly low FT in your prime even if you had low SHBG to boot!
LMFAO!
You have been a complete mess from the get-go on here!
If you truly feel great so be it but do not go on claiming such levels are healthy long-term!
Your FT is ridiculously low!
Even then when it comes to retaining let alone gaining muscle mass/strength, and recovery you are going to be spinning your wheels here!
Look up where a healthy young male sits at peak!
You are well off the mark here!
@Blkandrust: Good information from @madman as usual. I would add that it's almost certain that your SHBG has been driven very low by the excessive dose of testosterone. As a result, total testosterone is unusually low for the dose, while free testosterone is likely to be well over-range. Healthy natural testosterone production is covered by doses in the range of 40-100 mg TC per week. Going higher is asking for side effects, as many find out the hard way.
Seagal
Well-Known Member
What provider is that?
Not sure if the "optimal" column is cut off. It looks like there are no ranges, rather like "more/less than is better".
How was your TRT experience so far?
You suggested lowering your dose. It's quite possible that you feel as well or even better on a lower dose. Question is now how much should one reduce the dose at once. To be honest, you could also be one of the rare cases that do better on a higher dose. Are you taking any additional TRT medications (estradiol, dht 'management')?
Not sure if the "optimal" column is cut off. It looks like there are no ranges, rather like "more/less than is better".
How was your TRT experience so far?
You suggested lowering your dose. It's quite possible that you feel as well or even better on a lower dose. Question is now how much should one reduce the dose at once. To be honest, you could also be one of the rare cases that do better on a higher dose. Are you taking any additional TRT medications (estradiol, dht 'management')?
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Why did you come off your oral T, that you have said on the forum you were so happy with?
FunkOdyssey
Seeker of Wisdom
How you are feeling is the crucial context we are missing here, without which your lab numbers are meaningless.
Systemlord
Member
After coming off the beta-blocker, which was causing hypotension, things changes and I could no longer tolerate sunlight, foods with vitamin D or vitamin D supplements even though I was deficient.
TRT changes my iron status too much by suppressing hepcidin and this causes problems. Vitamin D makes more iron bioavailable as does TRT by suppressing hepcidin.
I feel better off TRT.
Last edited:
FunkOdyssey
Seeker of Wisdom
It's well known that beta-blockers allow vampires walk in the daylight by reducing the oxidative stress associated with UV light exposure. Dropping the beta-blocker then would have unmasked your underlying vampirism. Additionally, iron is toxic to vampires unless consumed as fresh blood. We finally have a diagnosis that explains everything you've observed.
On the bright side, you may be immortal.
Phil Goodman
Well-Known Member
Feel better on trt or not on trt?? Kind of confused because above you said you feel better now than you did on trt.
Either way, it’s your life and hope you find something that works and makes you feel good enough to enjoy your time on this planet. I do agree with madman though, that free t level seems chronically low and not what most would consider even close to a healthy level. If you feel better there then hopefully you’re an exception.
Also, if you are such an outlier that makes me reconsider your constant praise of oral testosterone. Not saying it didn’t work for you, but you seem to be a rare specimen so it’s quite possible(likely) that your success with it is not the norm for most subjects. And that’s backed up by lots of other anecdotal stories from people who failed to find success with it.
Systemlord
Member
I meant feel better off TRT.
madman
Super Moderator
Would not go that far here!
Much more to the story.
The downfall here is many men jumping on oral TU start on the lower end dose let alone do not always put in the time to truly gauge the effectiveness of the protocol and even then many bailout before even titrating up in dose which may be needed in many cases in order to achieve a high enough TT/FT.
Even when using oral TU (Jatenzo or Kyzatrex) steady-state is achieved fairly quick but one still needs to put in the time let alone titrate up in dose if need be before jumping to any conclusions.
Another critical point that needs to be made here is there are a fair amount of men already on injectable T running high let alone absurdly high FT levels trough/steady-state that decide to give oral TU a go.
This is going to make a huge difference here as to how one feels when first starting oral TU as it will take time for the body to adapt to the 2 daily peaks/troughs vs coming down from the high/absurdly high trough/steady-state FT levels achieved on injectables.
These guys are already amped up on T 24/7!
As you should very well know from hanging out on this forum let alone those other so called men's health/HRT forums loaded with all those blast n cruizerrzzz pushing that more T is better mentality bullshit that unfortunately most men are overmedicated on T from the get-go!
You have guys running around with high/absurdly high trough/steady-state FT levels well beyond their genetic set-point.
Blown the suicide doors of the LAMBO here!
FT levels through the roof 24/7!
No way most of these men could truly give an oral TU protocol a fair shake!
You would need to bite the bullet and expect to feel shitty from the get-go as again it will take time for the body to adapt.
Put money on it if the individual started TTh using oral TU and put in the time let alone was titrated properly so he achieved a high enough TT/FT level many would fair well overall on such protocol!
Even much better when it comes to the sides (cosmetic/blood markers) than most using injectable T!
I could name off quite a few of the top uros treating men with oral TU that have many satisfied patients and it was mentioned in a recent interview Nelson posted with Marius Pharmaceuticals CEO Shalin Shah that common dosing regimens for Kyzatrex are 300-400 mg BID (2X/day) /600-800 mg daily!
The starting dose is 200 mg BID/400 mg daily.
KYZATREX (oral testosterone undecanoate) now available in all states across the US
Did you get any nasty side effects by the way? None. I am looking at all the warnings and one of them says increase risk of death. That's a load of sh**! There's an increase risk of death living life, like crossing the street. There's increase risk of death with any other medicines.
www.excelmale.com
Oral TRT Products: Jatenzo, Tlando, Kyzatrex, & DiTest
I have tried Jatenzo on a few occasions, but never got to seven days. Have you tried Jatenzo after no injections for a couple of weeks? Stacking both may be causing your problems. I felt bad on Jatenzo 2, 3 and 4th week and I’ll bet it has to do with the cypionate leaving my system and my T...
www.excelmale.com
Seagal
Well-Known Member
Maybe there is also a cost/insurance problem or unwillingness of some urologist to prescribe the 600-800mg dose. I experienced that with the androgel, 2-3 pumps was the limit I could get prescribed.Would not go that far here!
Much more to the story.
The downfall here is many men jumping on oral TU start on the lower end dose let alone do not always put in the time to truly gauge the effectiveness of the protocol and even then many bailout before even titrating up in dose which may be needed in many cases in order to achieve a high enough TT/FT.
Even when using oral TU (Jatenzo or Kyzatrex) steady-state is achieved fairly quick but one still needs to put in the time let alone titrate up in dose if need be before jumping to any conclusions.
Another critical point that needs to be made here is there are a fair amount of men already on injectable T running high let alone absurdly high FT levels trough/steady-state that decide to give oral TU a go.
This is going to make a huge difference here as to how one feels when first starting oral TU as it will take time for the body to adapt to the 2 daily peaks/troughs vs coming down from the high/absurdly high trough/steady-state FT levels achieved on injectables.
These guys are already amped up on T 24/7!
As you should very well know from hanging out on this forum let alone those other so called men's health/HRT forums loaded with all those blast n cruizerrzzz pushing that more T is better mentality bullshit that unfortunately most men are overmedicated on T from the get-go!
You have guys running around with high/absurdly high trough/steady-state FT levels well beyond their genetic set-point.
Blown the suicide doors of the LAMBO here!
FT levels through the roof 24/7!
No way most of these men could truly give an oral TU protocol a fair shake!
You would need to bite the bullet and expect to feel shitty from the get-go as again it will take time for the body to adapt.
Put money on it if the individual started TTh using oral TU and put in the time let alone was titrated properly so he achieved a high enough TT/FT level many would fair well overall on such protocol!
Even much better when it comes to the sides (cosmetic/blood markers) than most using injectable T!
I could name off quite a few of the top uros treating men with oral TU that have many satisfied patients and it was mentioned in a recent interview Nelson posted with Marius Pharmaceuticals CEO Shalin Shah that common dosing regimens for Kyzatrex are 300-400 mg BID (2X/day) /600-800 mg daily!
The starting dose is 200 mg BID/400 mg daily.
KYZATREX (oral testosterone undecanoate) now available in all states across the US
Did you get any nasty side effects by the way? None. I am looking at all the warnings and one of them says increase risk of death. That's a load of sh**! There's an increase risk of death living life, like crossing the street. There's increase risk of death with any other medicines.
Oral TRT Products: Jatenzo, Tlando, Kyzatrex, & DiTest
I have tried Jatenzo on a few occasions, but never got to seven days. Have you tried Jatenzo after no injections for a couple of weeks? Stacking both may be causing your problems. I felt bad on Jatenzo 2, 3 and 4th week and I’ll bet it has to do with the cypionate leaving my system and my T...
Phil Goodman
Well-Known Member
Would not go that far here!
Much more to the story.
The downfall here is many men jumping on oral TU start on the lower end dose let alone do not always put in the time to truly gauge the effectiveness of the protocol and even then many bailout before even titrating up in dose which may be needed in many cases in order to achieve a high enough TT/FT.
Even when using oral TU (Jatenzo or Kyzatrex) steady-state is achieved fairly quick but one still needs to put in the time let alone titrate up in dose if need be before jumping to any conclusions.
Another critical point that needs to be made here is there are a fair amount of men already on injectable T running high let alone absurdly high FT levels trough/steady-state that decide to give oral TU a go.
This is going to make a huge difference here as to how one feels when first starting oral TU as it will take time for the body to adapt to the 2 daily peaks/troughs vs coming down from the high/absurdly high trough/steady-state FT levels achieved on injectables.
These guys are already amped up on T 24/7!
As you should very well know from hanging out on this forum let alone those other so called men's health/HRT forums loaded with all those blast n cruizerrzzz pushing that more T is better mentality bullshit that unfortunately most men are overmedicated on T from the get-go!
You have guys running around with high/absurdly high trough/steady-state FT levels well beyond their genetic set-point.
Blown the suicide doors of the LAMBO here!
FT levels through the roof 24/7!
No way most of these men could truly give an oral TU protocol a fair shake!
You would need to bite the bullet and expect to feel shitty from the get-go as again it will take time for the body to adapt.
Put money on it if the individual started TTh using oral TU and put in the time let alone was titrated properly so he achieved a high enough TT/FT level many would fair well overall on such protocol!
Even much better when it comes to the sides (cosmetic/blood markers) than most using injectable T!
I could name off quite a few of the top uros treating men with oral TU that have many satisfied patients and it was mentioned in a recent interview Nelson posted with Marius Pharmaceuticals CEO Shalin Shah that common dosing regimens for Kyzatrex are 300-400 mg BID (2X/day) /600-800 mg daily!
The starting dose is 200 mg BID/400 mg daily.
KYZATREX (oral testosterone undecanoate) now available in all states across the US
Did you get any nasty side effects by the way? None. I am looking at all the warnings and one of them says increase risk of death. That's a load of sh**! There's an increase risk of death living life, like crossing the street. There's increase risk of death with any other medicines.
Oral TRT Products: Jatenzo, Tlando, Kyzatrex, & DiTest
I have tried Jatenzo on a few occasions, but never got to seven days. Have you tried Jatenzo after no injections for a couple of weeks? Stacking both may be causing your problems. I felt bad on Jatenzo 2, 3 and 4th week and I’ll bet it has to do with the cypionate leaving my system and my T...
I think that’s a good point about people going from injections to oral, and it would take some time to adjust to daily rollercoasters while also not being elevated more throughout the week. However, I also think that the term “absurdly high” is pretty subjective, and sitting at or slightly above the top of the reference range isn’t necessarily a bad thing. If a person takes care of themselves with diet, exercise, and sleep.. then I’d say being on the higher end is probably a better thing. It’s definitely preferential for building muscle and bone density, which is very important for longterm health. You are correct though, that being too amped up constantly is not good…but I’d say that is easy to identify by sleep issues, not necessarily just based on what the levels are. In other words, if you’re sitting above the top of the range 24/7 but sleeping well then your body is adapted to the environment and won’t suffer from the negative of poor sleep. That’s just one example, but applies to lots of other areas like anxiety or hematocrit. If hematocrit is slightly elevated but all other markers look good then the body is well-adjusted to the levels and the hematocrit would not be a concern. But yes, obviously there are things to watch out for when it comes to injections. At the same time though, there are unique concerns that are introduced by oral administration of testosterone that wouldn’t apply as much when it comes to injections.
But again, I’d say you are correct that it’s quite possible many people could benefit from oral test. And it’s probable some people would even prefer that route. The main thing would be to know the pros and cons of whichever path you take, and monitoring/adjusting accordingly. Either way, I say the more options the better. And I’m sure we can all agree that it’s a good thing research is focusing on this front so that we can continue to improve understanding and options going forward.
madman
Super Moderator
No one here was saying that running a high-end or slightly above trough FT is bad it just needs to be put in perspective when it comes to what the so called magical range let alone everyone supposedly needing to hit this trough 30-60 ng/dL in order to derive the beneficial effects of having healthy FT levels being spewed on the bro forums everyone seems to be aiming for!
Sad state of affairs when everyone and their brother going into this thinks they need to be aiming for this trough TT 1000-1500+ ng/dL with an absurdly high FT to reap the beneficial effects of having healthy testosterone levels.
We could shit all over this here when it comes to energy, mood or better yet libido and erectile function!
Anyone with sense in their heads who understands how exogenous T works would know this!
Recovery and body composition benefits (increased muscle/strength, fat loss) and recovery now we are talking as there is no denying that achieving a higher trough/steady-state TT/FT level is where it's at and even then I would not expect any f**KING MIRACLES when using therapeutic doses of T let alone running a high/slightly above top-end range trough FT level, not a chance!
If your goal is to walk around with that jacked up FAKE build idolized by all those knumbskulls than you better plan on going beyond therapeutic as in abusing TT/AAS and even then genetics will have the final say!
It will be a lifelong commitment to achieve/maintain such as it is a dead-end road, no such thing as a one cycle and done here LMFAO!
Need to hammer it in your dome that a trough FT 30-30+ ng/dL is absurdly high!
We are not talking about sitting at a top-end trough FT 20 ng/dL or slightly above here.
Most men on injections especially the misinformed caught up on those so called men's health/HRT forums (I just don't GEDDIT, FACEpalm; BUMnation, GOOtube) loaded with all those blast n cruizzzers or so called GURUS being brainwashed by that more T is better SHEEP mentality are running trough FT levels well above the top-end of where a healthy young male would be!
Well beyond their genetic set-point here!
You have idiots running around with trough FT 30-60 ng/dL LMFAO!
Some of those same clowns on here turning a blind eye now because they can't handle the fact let alone admit that a FT 20-25 ng/dL is very high LMFAO!
The dime a dozen club at its finest!
Needing to hit this so called magical trough FT 30-60 ng/dL in order to reap the beneficial effects of testosterone.
That more T is better mentality bullS**T!
Top it off when using exogenous testosterone for most we are forcing levels well beyond what our body could or would produce and this is at a steady state (24/7).
The shit kicker here is most are running trough levels at the top-end or well beyond!
Most men have blown past their genetic set-point let alone are running around with inflated FT levels well beyond where a healthy young male would sit (peak) and this is inflated trough levels we are talking about here which means that their peak FT levels will be even higher.
Again the average secretion rate of T in the majority of healthy young males is 5-7 mg/day.
10 mg would be those outliers and even then there is not going to be a big difference in how one would feel/function.
Also need to keep in mind that those healthy natty young men running around with those very high T levels have high SHBG and it is not like they are running around with absurdly high FT levels.
Top it off that these TT/FT levels healthy natty young men in their prime are hitting are at peak which is short-lived, their trough/nadir (lowest point)) of the day would be 20-25% lower.
Natural endogenous testosterone secretion is pulsatile and diurnal.
During the natural 24-hour circadian rhythm of a healthy young male T levels will start rising gradually overnight reaching a peak (highest point) in the early AM followed by lower levels in the late afternoon and reaching trough (lowest point) in the evening.
Fluctuations from peak--->trough would be around 20-25%
One daily peak/trough.
What percentile of healthy young men would even be hitting a peak not trough FT 20-25 ng/dL LMFAO!
Even if you took the outlier nattys (healthy young men) hitting a high FT 20-25 ng/dL again this is a short-lived daily peak.
Sure as hell not a trough - depending on injection frequency - 2 days later (EOD), 3 days later (M/W/F), 3.5 days later (twice-weekly), let alone 7 days later (once weekly)!
Again just to put this in perspective most healthy young males would be hitting a FT 10-12 ng/dL tested using the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis assay (most accurate) or a cFTV 13-15 ng/dL and this is a short-lived peak to boot!
Very few nattys are running around with a peak FT 20-25 ng/dL, 25 ng/dL being the 95th percentile!
These would be outliers here!
Better yet show me a healthy young natty male walking around with a high-end peak TT let alone 1000+ ng/dL with FT through the roof that has low/lowish SHBG.
Such does not exist!
Again running a trough FT 30 ng/dL let alone 30+ ng/dL is absurdly high whether one is injecting daily let alone especially if following a twice-weekly or once weekly injection protocol!
Age-stratified reference ranges for directly measured (ED LC-MS/MS) serum free testosterone in healthy men
Just to be clear up any confusion this is Fiers camps data for mFT reference ranges not the harmonized reference range being worked on by the CDC. *Serum samples were analyzed from healthy men participating in the SIBLOS/SIBEX and EMAS studies, both population-based cohort studies * mFT...
www.excelmale.com
*We established mFT reference ranges for healthy men aged 18 to 69 years
We present 95% mFT age-stratified reference ranges
Age category (years) | Median mFT (ng/dl) | 95% mFT reference range (ng/dl) |
18-29 (n=140) | 12.0 | 6.7-25.3 |
40-49 (n=207) | 8.1 | 4.3.14.2 |
50-59 (n=146) | 7.1 | 3.8-12.8 |
60-69 (n=126) | 6.4 | 3.4-11.7 |
70-79 (n=125) | 5.6 | 2.7-8.7 |
*The gold-standard for the determination of FT levels is considered to be directly measured free testosterone (mFT) using equilibrium dialysis followed by mass spectrometry (ED LC-MS/MS). However, no widely accepted reference ranges are available for this clinical parameter. We established mFT reference ranges for healthy men aged 18 to 69 years
*Serum samples were analyzed from healthy men participating in the SIBLOS/SIBEX and EMAS studies, both population-based cohort studies
* mFT levels were measured in 867 men using ED LC-MS/MS as previously reported (1).
Reference: 1. Fiers T, Wu F, Moghetti P, Vanderschueren D, Lapauw B, Kaufman JM. Reassessing Free-Testosterone Calculation by Liquid Chromatography–Tandem Mass Spectrometry Direct Equilibrium Dialysis. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2018;103(6). doi:10.1210/jc.2017-02360
In the current study, we used a state-of-the-art direct ED method to reassess FT in sets of representative serum samples. This method takes advantage of the ability of a highly sensitive and accurate measurement of T by liquid chromatography–tandem mass spectrometry (LC-MS/MS) to reliably measure the low FT concentration directly in the dialysate after ED. This more straightforward method avoids potential sources of inaccuracy in indirect ED, such as those resulting from tracer impurities or from measures to limit their impact (e.g., sample dilution). We then used the measured FT results to re-evaluate some characteristics of two more established and a more recently proposed calculations for estimation of FT.
This post sums up where I stand!
Switching From Oral Test to Test Cypionate
Hello, I tried Kyzatrex at 200mg twice a day for a total of 400mg a day but it only got my total Test to 419. According to their titration guide, I would need 2x200mg twice a day for a total of 800mg a day which becomes cost prohibitive for me. So I have decided to try Test Cypionate instead...
www.excelmale.com
Just to be clear here I see no issue if one chooses to run a high-end/high trough FT within reason especially if blood markers are healthy, minus any sides and they feel great overall.
Yes symptom relief is what truly matters but we need to tread lightly when it comes to the cop out for some claiming this is where I feel best!
I could bang 300 mg T/week maybe have minimal sides, blood markers fairly good overall other then very high hematocrit yet state this is where I feel best.
When you seen how absurd my TT and more importantly trough FT levels were on such protocol they would be well past therapeutic!
Such dose would never be needed to achieve a healthy let alone high trough FT level let alone experience relief/improvement of low-T symptoms.
Phil Goodman
Well-Known Member
@madman there’s a lot to unpack there and you were all over the place, while seeming somewhat frustrated (or at least that’s how it came off at times during that post). No need to “hammer into my dome” anything. I’m not talking about blasting and cruising. I’m simply stating that “absurdly high” could be subjective. You say it’s high whether injecting daily or once/week. However, there would be a HUGE difference in those two examples. If I inject once per week and my trough is at 30 then my peaks are way WAY higher than that 6 days of the week. If I inject daily and my trough is at 30 then my peak would not be nearly as high as in the first example.
Plus you are discussing “resolution of symptoms” and “getting the maximum benefits” at the same time…those two things are not the same. A person could take a very small dose to see some improvement of symptoms while not even getting close to levels that would bring the full benefits. Again, I agree about most people tending to start out too high and chasing their tails as they go round and round. I even remember being disappointed that my doctor originally started me at 120 mg/week. I was hoping for something closer to 200 just because that is a number that is often parroted. Luckily I frequented this forum more than lots of the other places that you called out, with a large reason being the posting of great studies and lots of anectdotal experiences from reasonable experienced people here. And I should say that I greatly enjoy all the resources you share here. Now my ideal dose is closer down to 100/week and I’m glad I went that way instead of higher. That being said, that along with my HCG put my trough in the high 20’s approaching the, as you would call it, “absurdly high” trough level. I feel great here, have incredible symptom resolution, and feel that I am maximizing the benefits of trt(not to be confused with simply resolving symptoms). All of my health markers look great. My sleep, well-being, energy levels, mental clarity, motivation, libido, and workouts are all great. If some people say I’m running “absurdly high” free t levels to accomplish that then so be it.
Edit to add - I also second your sentiments about being careful to take the “I feel great so I must be healthy” approach, and that’s a pet peeve of mine. Lots of people justify unhealthy habits by saying if they feel good then it can’t be too bad. Many even eat themselves into an early grave by saying their food makes them feel good. People should be careful and realize humans are good at justifying things even when they feel down understand it probably isn’t the best path. So again, I agree with calling out the dangers that may arise from that approach.
Plus you are discussing “resolution of symptoms” and “getting the maximum benefits” at the same time…those two things are not the same. A person could take a very small dose to see some improvement of symptoms while not even getting close to levels that would bring the full benefits. Again, I agree about most people tending to start out too high and chasing their tails as they go round and round. I even remember being disappointed that my doctor originally started me at 120 mg/week. I was hoping for something closer to 200 just because that is a number that is often parroted. Luckily I frequented this forum more than lots of the other places that you called out, with a large reason being the posting of great studies and lots of anectdotal experiences from reasonable experienced people here. And I should say that I greatly enjoy all the resources you share here. Now my ideal dose is closer down to 100/week and I’m glad I went that way instead of higher. That being said, that along with my HCG put my trough in the high 20’s approaching the, as you would call it, “absurdly high” trough level. I feel great here, have incredible symptom resolution, and feel that I am maximizing the benefits of trt(not to be confused with simply resolving symptoms). All of my health markers look great. My sleep, well-being, energy levels, mental clarity, motivation, libido, and workouts are all great. If some people say I’m running “absurdly high” free t levels to accomplish that then so be it.
Edit to add - I also second your sentiments about being careful to take the “I feel great so I must be healthy” approach, and that’s a pet peeve of mine. Lots of people justify unhealthy habits by saying if they feel good then it can’t be too bad. Many even eat themselves into an early grave by saying their food makes them feel good. People should be careful and realize humans are good at justifying things even when they feel down understand it probably isn’t the best path. So again, I agree with calling out the dangers that may arise from that approach.
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