Testosterone Propionate

Gman86 said:

I haven’t dug too deep into Natesto, or Jatenzo, but from my understanding, both preserve fertility better than longer ester preparations of test, like test cyp/ enanthate. I assume this is due to their very short half lives, and therefore less HPTA suppression

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On this theme, I started doing some social media moderation work for Maximus, and what they are doing with oral testosterone together with enclomiphene will blow your mind. In their clinical research, the higher dosed group reached peak total T levels of 1327 ng/dL on average and peak free T of 383 pg/mL (38.3 ng/dL) while maintaining full HPTA function. Their LH and FSH were actually higher post-treatment than baseline. Kind of makes you rethink what is possible here.

FunkOdyssey said:

On this theme, I started doing some social media moderation work for Maximus, and what they are doing with oral testosterone together with enclomiphene will blow your mind. In their clinical research, the higher dosed group reached peak total T levels of 1327 ng/dL on average and peak free T of 383 pg/mL (38.3 ng/dL) while maintaining full HPTA function. Their LH and FSH were actually higher post-treatment than baseline. Kind of makes you rethink what is possible here.

https://www.maximustribe.com/white-paper/oral-trt

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Holy sh*t, this is wild stuff! From everything I’ve been seeing the past few years, I definitely think maintaining either a fully functioning HPTA, or having a very minimally suppressed HPTA, while concurrently on exogenous means to maintain healthy testosterone levels, is the future of TRT/ HRT. Which is amazing news for anyone with sub optimal testosterone levels, all across the world, and all the people in the future that will end up dealing with this issue

Latest labs using Natesto between 4 and 5 months now.
Not feeling great at all and my sex drive is in the dirt.
I stopped Natesto yesterday ( Saturday 15 June ) and see my Uro tomorrow.
I don't expect much help there but hopefully he'll get my Defy Entrace exam sheet filled out so I can move forward which will be trying Propionate.

Smokin Joe said:

Latest labs using Natesto between 4 and 5 months now.
Not feeling great at all and my sex drive is in the dirt.
I stopped Natesto yesterday ( Saturday 15 June ) and see my Uro tomorrow.
I don't expect much help there but hopefully he'll get my Defy Entrace exam sheet filled out so I can move forward which will be trying Propionate.

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When was the blood draw in relation to dosing? As far as application, do you paint it on with the applicator or do you follow the insert instructions: dispense and gently massage?

Looks similar to the results I’ve gotten. I’ve never pulled anything higher than a 470 ng/dl and I’ve pulled labs within 30-60 min.

Application-wise, I’ve persisted in painting it on to prevent the gel from ending up in the back of my throat or running out of my nose. Technically, I haven’t been following the dosing instructions. Been thinking about that lately and wondering if absorption would be better with blobs of gel (testosterone and gel matrix) sitting in my nose… the result of following the instructions vs. being too smart for my own good and painting on a thin layer with the applicator to prevent the annoyances that come from dosing as instructed.

Guy on Reddit just posted his labs 1 hour after dosing and pulled a 770. He said he applies per the instructions: dispenses and gently massages the nostrils.

I have been pInting on as I was getting to much down the throat and a little burning g in the gut.
Blood draw about 1.5 hours after application.
My total t has on moved about 20 poi ts since last time.
My shbg is a little high but Lwzys has been.
I've tried several things to get it down but it won't move.

Smokin Joe said:

I have been pInting on as I was getting to much down the throat and a little burning g in the gut.
Blood draw about 1.5 hours after application.
My total t has on moved about 20 poi ts since last time.
My shbg is a little high but Lwzys has been.
I've tried several things to get it down but it won't move.

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It may be worth experimenting with dosing per the instructions. Clearly it’s possible for some to see a substantial peak 1 hour after dosing as evidenced by the trial data.

As for SHBG, not sure what your diet is like but low carb diets/fasting tends to raise SHBG.

On paper, I still believe Natesto is a superior form of TRT especially given the prospect of preserving HPTA function.

Thanks for the reply.
I may give another chance as I've only stopped for one day.
I am interested in TPsp I may give it a 90 day trial to see how I feel.
It's all an experiment at this point to see where I feel and get the best.....

Smokin Joe said:

Thanks for the reply.
I may give another chance as I've only stopped for one day.
I am interested in TPsp I may give it a 90 day trial to see how I feel.
It's all an experiment at this point to see where I feel and get the best.....

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Happy to dialog with a fellow Natesto-er. One thing to keep in mind as you chew on next steps. Judging from your LH/FSH, you’re currently not suppressed and recovering from suppression can take some time as I’m sure you’re aware. I believe a fully functioning HPTA is critical if you hope to have success on Natesto. Every time I’ve gotten back on Natesto following the use of a T ester and thus substantial suppression, the subjective benefits just haven’t been the same as opposed to starting Natesto following a period of zero suppression with a fully functioning (lackluster… yes) axis.

Yes I agree. I'll start back for another round to see what improves.
I've got to do something about my drive and my ed.
My wife of 47 years is on fire and I'm floundering like no tomorrow.
Not good.
I'm investigating but I'll tell u most doctors are not good with ed. Take a pill and everything should be ok.

Smokin Joe said:

Yes I agree. I'll start back for another round to see what improves.
I've got to do something about my drive and my ed.
My wife of 47 years is on fire and I'm floundering like no tomorrow.
Not good.
I'm investigating but I'll tell u most doctors are not good with ed. Take a pill and everything should be ok.

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Bi-Mix or Tri-Mix will guaranteed solve this problem immediately. If you are going to wait for the right TRT protocol to fix your erections, you and your wife might be waiting a long time.

I have considered but not there yet....
Thanks

t_spacemonkey said:

I do, over a year now. 20-30mg/daily (rotating dosing). works best for me. ups/downs are good. prop works for sensitive guys with low shbg like me

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What sort of a schedule do you use to rotate dosing? Do you mix it up daily, weekly, every few months?

HSLD said:

What sort of a schedule do you use to rotate dosing? Do you mix it up daily, weekly, every few months?

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typically when I feel overstimulated, high work stress etc, i reduce it to 20mg. you can feel the change within 2-3 days. below 20mg i feel like shit, so there goes the low dosing for me. on weeks I do harder workouts (both weight/cardio) I tend to dose up, as it helps with recovery. been trying up to 40mg lately, and feeling great as well. and yes, please spare me the AAS cycle crap (not you, just the T police on this forum)

t_spacemonkey said:

... been trying up to 40mg lately, and feeling great as well. and yes, please spare me the AAS cycle crap (not you, just the T police on this forum)

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If you want to be spared then head off to a forum where discussions of such cycles are encouraged. This isn't the place for it. Taking 280 mg/week TP has little to do with TRT and men's health.

t_spacemonkey said:

typically when I feel overstimulated, high work stress etc, i reduce it to 20mg. you can feel the change within 2-3 days. below 20mg i feel like shit, so there goes the low dosing for me. on weeks I do harder workouts (both weight/cardio) I tend to dose up, as it helps with recovery. been trying up to 40mg lately, and feeling great as well. and yes, please spare me the AAS cycle crap (not you, just the T police on this forum)

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You clearly knew what the forum was about before you even set foot on here in 2022!

This is a men's health/HRT forum!

If you don't get the gist move on!

Where do you want to go with this one because I'm ready to pick this apart from the tip of the hair follicle on your head to the hangnail on your big toe!

Do you want me to pull up your labs when you were banging 25 mg TP daily (175 mg/week) or better yet 30 mg TP daily (210 mg/week)?

You remember the FT levels you were hitting and that is coming from a guy with low SHBG to boot.

40 mg TP daily a f**king whopping 280 mg TP/week (minus ester = 232.4 mg active T), therapeutic LMFAO!

That would be equivalent to banging 332 mg TC/week (minus ester = 232.4 mg active T )!

When it comes to cycling most in the know would consider 300 mg T/week getting your feet wet and even then 400-600 mg T/week is where its at.

If you want to play around with your Mickey Mouse dipping in that cycle territory go nuts!

Let's be very clear here banging 280 mg TP/week has absolutely nothing to do with HRT!

That's the problem with you sheep that pollute those so called men's health forums you know (FACEpalm, I just don't GEDDIT, BUMnation,GOOtube) loaded with all those blast n cruizzers preaching that more T is better mentality nonsense coming over here stinking up this forum!

I can pick off any one of you!

We have quite a few of them still lingering on here, some just poke their heads in once in awhile to talk gibberish but end up getting smoked and the others who know better got put in their place and left!

Excel is a different f**king BREED my man!

Next time just call me out by name instead of beating around the f***king wet bush!

Snakey f**king move!

t_spacemonkey said:

typically when I feel overstimulated, high work stress etc, i reduce it to 20mg. you can feel the change within 2-3 days. below 20mg i feel like shit, so there goes the low dosing for me. on weeks I do harder workouts (both weight/cardio) I tend to dose up, as it helps with recovery. been trying up to 40mg lately, and feeling great as well. and yes, please spare me the AAS cycle crap (not you, just the T police on this forum)

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Have you gotten labs on 40mg daily? Genuinely curious, that seems ridiculously high but some people are poor absorbers I guess. But still…

Pnw0031 said:

Have you gotten labs on 40mg daily? Genuinely curious, that seems ridiculously high but some people are poor absorbers I guess. But still…

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yes, 30mg/d is signed of by my doctor. i honestly don't feel good below 25mg/d. my free T cycles between 75 peak 30 low roughly on that protocol. I worked slowly to that level from 120mg/week over 2 years. I go purely by the way I feel and don't care about dosing and levels too much, as long as other markers are fine. my rbc/htc is elevated but there is no much difference between 120/210mg and there is a whole other discussion what levels are acceptable, different lab ranges etc.
my general doc thinks I do great. i look and feel great. BF% went from 30->20 (10 to go). libido sky high. i don't know what to tell the lab number chaser crowd here. get a life!

Gman86 said:

I can’t comment on this personally, since I’m on a super low dose, and most of my androgens are coming from nandrolone, but check this vid out if u haven’t seen it already. His libido is apparently through the roof on prop. From my understanding, prop also inhibits the HPTA less, which could potentially allow downstream hormones to be less suppressed, which can definitely help with things like libido.

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Take that Cortex Lab dude with a grain of salt. He has said some really wrong things in the past, and if you watch his podcast with VigorousSteve you realize he is a compete amateur in his knowledge. He tries to carve out a nootropic niche and sells private label products, and maybe he knows more about that, but he is terrible at TRT stuff. For example, he advocated keeping estradiol is a small range with AIs, I think 20-25, or else you get tons of side effects which is complete crap.

Big_Alan said:

Take that Cortex Lab dude with a grain of salt. He has said some really wrong things in the past, and if you watch his podcast with VigorousSteve you realize he is a compete amateur in his knowledge. He tries to carve out a nootropic niche and sells private label products, and maybe he knows more about that, but he is terrible at TRT stuff. For example, he advocated keeping estradiol is a small range with AIs, I think 20-25, or else you get tons of side effects which is complete crap.

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He also switches his protocol every 2-3 weeks. From his last video he isn’t even taking prop at the moment. He’s using enan I believe plus Proviron. Who knows because he’s constantly changing…

Pnw0031 said:

He also switches his protocol every 2-3 weeks. From his last video he isn’t even taking prop at the moment. He’s using enan I believe plus Proviron. Who knows because he’s constantly changing…

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He already switched to a new scrotal cream and proviron protocol to test the effects of maxing out DHT. I assume he's on a mission to lose his hair.