Raising LH

[Vorrex]

Hello all,

Had my consultation with Defy Medical today, and was prescribed 10mg of Tamoxifen citrate daily, as well as 25mg of over the counter DHEA. He's taking the conservative route for a few months instead of jumping straight onto the TRT, which is totally fine.

My numbers from the most recent lab are:

Albumin 5.0 (3.5-5.5) g/dL
Testosterone 507 (264-916) ng/dL Also the highest this has ever been for me. I am usually in the upper 300's to mid 400's.
Free T 13.2 (9.3-26.5) pg/mL
Estradiol Sensitive 26.6 (8-35) pg/mL
SHGB 43.9 (16.5-55.9) nmol/L
DHEA Sulfate 362.7 (138.5-475.2) ug/dL
LH 4.5 (1.7-8.6) mlU/mL
TSH 1.890 (0.450-4.500) uIU/mL

My question is: Has anyone had success raising their LH using this pairing of medicines? The way I understood what he told me was that my LH shows that my brain knows to produce Testosterone and that my testes are working, just that the number could be double that, thus doubling my Total Testosterone.

All feedback and experiences are welcome! Thank you

 

[Vince]

Workout with weights, lose weight and use ED meds. All three should help raise your LH and FSH.

 

[Vorrex]

Currently 5'11 and 170 lbs. Pretty close to 15% BF, and workout 5 times a week. Also ordered some 5mg Cialis from ADC, coming later this week!

The levels listed are me going balls to the wall with a great diet, exercise, and as much supplementation as possible.

 

[Vince Carter]

Why Tamoxifen, and why would any one think that a doubling of LH = a doulbing of TT...that's crazy talk.

edit did you mean Clomid?

 

[Vorrex]

Well the person I had my consultation with at Defy asked if kids were on the slate for the future, which I said yes. So he said we should try this conservative route first since HCG isn't guaranteed to keep me good I guess.

He was fine with my Total Test levels. And no the prescription/order is for Tamoxifen citrate, and also tells me to take 25mg DHEA daily.

 

[Vince Carter]

No one uses that here so it's an honest question. Clomid would the drug to use in a case like yours. Giving some one an E antagonist and then giving the DHEA, which is prone to aromatase in men...makes no sense.

Drug class: Estrogen receptor antagonist antineoplastic agent

 

[Vorrex]

I appreciate the reply. I guess Nolvadex would've been better to say instead of Tamoxifen. We shall see how it works!

 

[Cataceous]

When it comes to raising testosterone, tamoxifen should behave similarly to the enclomiphene component of Clomid; they're both SERMs. Use of tamoxifen may be less common because long-term use is linked to liver toxicity.

Excess DHEA will aromatize to estrone, not estradiol. So that part shouldn't be a problem. But your baseline DHEA-S level is good, so it's not clear why supplementation is recommended. It's almost certain your serum DHEA-S will end up above the reference range.

 

[fifty]

I appreciate the reply. I guess Nolvadex would've been better to say instead of Tamoxifen. We shall see how it works!

Who was your doctor/provider?

 

[Vorrex]

Who was your doctor/provider?

"Mike Pa-C" is what's listed on the email regarding my prescription.

 

[Vorrex]

When it comes to raising testosterone, tamoxifen should behave similarly to the enclomiphene component of Clomid; they're both SERMs. Use of tamoxifen may be less common because long-term use is linked to liver toxicity.

Excess DHEA will aromatize to estrone, not estradiol. So that part shouldn't be a problem. But your baseline DHEA-S level is good, so it's not clear why supplementation is recommended. It's almost certain your serum DHEA-S will end up above the reference range.

Liver toxicity is absolutely something I'd want to keep to a minimum. I will make sure to request ALT and AST when I get my others tests on the follow-up for this current protocol. Thank you!

 

[Vince Carter]

Excess DHEA will aromatize to estrone, not estradiol. So that part shouldn't be a problem. But your baseline DHEA-S level is good, so it's not clear why supplementation is recommended. It's almost certain your serum DHEA-S will end up above the reference range.

Youre making progress on the DHEA > Estradiol pathway but we'll get there, eventually. Astute observation to the DHEA-S level and why there's a reason to supplement given the test.

Curious things from the clinic this time around

 

[Cataceous]

Youre making progress on the DHEA > Estradiol pathway but we'll get there, eventually. ...

When it comes to men with functioning HPTAs, I haven't budged. Studies have shown that even supplementing with 400 mg per day does not move estradiol. This makes sense physiologically. If DHEA could increase estradiol then it would crush testosterone levels through HPTA suppression. The concession is that studies have not been done on men on TRT, so there is a chance that something different happens. Anecdotal evidence is inconclusive at best.

 

[Vince Carter]

We're still friends though.

 

[Cataceous]

We're still friends though.

Absolutely. And we share the common goal of helping our brothers.

 

[Vince]

Before I started trt, I tried increasing my testosterone with DHEA. The higher dose of DHEA I used, the lower my testosterone went and the higher my estrogen went.

So basically it converted my testosterone into estrogen. :-(

 

[Vorrex]

To be honest I’m not quite sure why he suggested the DHEA anymore. Does the Nolvadex for my LH sound right though? I think the DHEA was more of a suggestion.

 

[Vince Carter]

DHEA is just a common inclusion in TRT for little reason other than something comes up low(er) range on a blood test vs does a guy really *need* it. Then it's typically overdosed, 25-50mg/D is a bit much whereas 2.5-5-10mg would be a better start point because as Vince noted his experience mirrored mine. Even 2.5mg recently made my bitchy and angry. So judging tolerance is a huge thing.

 

[Vince]

To be honest I’m not quite sure why he suggested the DHEA anymore. Does the Nolvadex for my LH sound right though? I think the DHEA was more of a suggestion.

Yes I would try Nolvadex, there can be many side effect with clomid, but some people do good on it. Hopefully you will get good results with Nolvadex.

 

[HealthMan]

I have used both tamoxifen and clomid in the past (both are serms and both will help raise LH and FSH). Both will also raise SHBG. I felt like s.... on both. Testosterone injections fixed me