This is interesting. I have been oddly, tolerating a slightly higher dose of enanthate than usual. Not sure why, but I have some theories. After I watch things a little while longer, I’ll post an update. Very glad you are making progress.This article describes my experience thus far:
Blunted autonomic reactivity to pharmacological panic challenge under long-term escitalopram treatment in healthy men
AbstractBackground:. Central serotonergic pathways influence brain areas involved in vagal cardiovascular regulation and, thereby, influence sympathetic efacademic.oup.com
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Good thing I listened to my Doctor. Now I can enjoy destroying the gym once again and QOL has improved significantly. Knock on wood it has only been a few months.
@Fortunate, @Belekas, @bixt and others who have wondered about TRT/TOT and exaggerated autonomic/inotropic/chronotropic effects...5 mg/day of escitalopram has me handling upping my "TRT" dose from 80 to 100 to 120 mg/week TC/TP mix much better than prior to its use. Probably another thing to watch out for as it may provide a cover to allow some of us sensitive folk to up our dose (more than we need for TRT) for ahem "hobby" purposes.
And full disclosure I am probably just late to the party from years ago about the touted low dose SSRI + TOT mix. Thanks for your patience @FunkOdyssey. It is nice to learn at the knees from someone with so much field experience.
The SSRI did nothing for my depression though which is pretty funny (no primary effect). Maybe made it a little worse. Good thing I learned how to cope with that years ago, and it allows me to lift and enjoy body dysmorphia (which helps with the depression - secondary vs primary effect).
SOLD!
The Case Against Antidepressants
- Thread starter FunkOdyssey
- Start date
Love Henry Rollins. Actually, every time I look at @madman’s avatar, I think of him. I think maybe it’s Henry Rollins in disguise lurking among us!
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tareload
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4 month SSRI update:
Holding steady at 120 mg/week TC/TP blend (4:1). Escitalopram working like a champ with the anxiety and panic. Depression and anhedonia the same. Debating next ramp up on the Test but Hct already at 48-50% on last blood draw.
Holding steady at 120 mg/week TC/TP blend (4:1). Escitalopram working like a champ with the anxiety and panic. Depression and anhedonia the same. Debating next ramp up on the Test but Hct already at 48-50% on last blood draw.
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I’m not sure how else to say it, but this bit of experiential knowledge goes hard. Rock on
I feel like my cognitive function goes to crap when I take Cyp or E. Similar to you, work recall and overall verbal fluency is borderline dementia feeling.
Nelson Vergel
Founder, ExcelMale.com
I would not change a thing
T
tareload
Guest
That would be a thoughtful approach by a wise man. Gainz greed is a powerful master that torments constantly and patiently.
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Guns!!!!
Axl was talking about something far more nefarious than anything you are doing, my friend!
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tareload
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Chronic escitalopram in healthy volunteers has specific effects on reinforcement sensitivity: a double-blind, placebo-controlled semi-randomised study - Neuropsychopharmacology
Several studies of the effects on cognition of selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRI), administered either acutely or sub-chronically in healthy volunteers, have found changes in learning and reinforcement outcomes. In contrast, to our knowledge, there have been no studies of chronic...
www.nature.com
Overall I am still net positive but make sure you understand going in the risk vs reward. For someone with many years of experience with emotional blunting it is a tradeoff I am making.
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tareload
Guest
Dropped this week to 2.5 mg/day escitalopram. 10 mg/day seemed to make depression worse. Will try to titrate down to lowest dose and hold on to whatever panic/anxiety improvement I can.
Recent article:
www.quantamagazine.org
Very nice MM Kinetic workup for a number of ADs:
www.nature.com
Example:
Lots of room to titrate down from typical 10 mg/day. Dial in your brain alteration as you like.
Very nice discussion. You should read it. You may learn alot.
Recent article:
The Cause of Depression Is Probably Not What You Think | Quanta Magazine
Depression has often been blamed on low levels of serotonin in the brain. That answer is insufficient, but alternatives are coming into view and changing our understanding of the disease.
www.quantamagazine.org
Very nice MM Kinetic workup for a number of ADs:
The relationship between dose and serotonin transporter occupancy of antidepressants—a systematic review - Molecular Psychiatry
Brain imaging techniques enable the visualization of serotonin transporter (SERT) occupancy as a measure of the proportion of SERT blocked by an antidepressant at a given dose. We aimed to systematically review the evidence on the relationship between antidepressant dose and SERT occupancy. We...
www.nature.com
Example:
Lots of room to titrate down from typical 10 mg/day. Dial in your brain alteration as you like.
Very nice discussion. You should read it. You may learn alot.
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tareload
Guest
Nice cheat sheet:
www.excelmale.com
TRT + Low Dose SSRI ...anyone doing this protocol?
Most of us have probably seen one of the many threads by @madman which are great for explaining PSSD (Post-SSRI sexual dysfunction). However, this post targeted towards using a VERY low dose ssri for helping with allopregnenolone issues. There is an existing thread on this topic but I just...
www.excelmale.com
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tareload
Guest
Update after 8 months on escitalopram:
www.excelmale.com
Emotional numbing/pro-depression effect definitely there but the anti-anxiety/panic effect has been tremendous.
What is TRT and What is NOT TRT
Since it is Christmas time and there is no better time to ridicule "experts" who don't understand what the heck they are talking about... https://www.center4menshealth.com/PDFs/Myth_2.pdf So if you get bored this Holiday season take a look at above and marvel at what's wrong with this picture...
www.excelmale.com
Emotional numbing/pro-depression effect definitely there but the anti-anxiety/panic effect has been tremendous.
@readalot and I have been discussing SSRI's in another thread, so I thought I'd move it over here.
I started sertraline 50mg for four days followed by 100mg for the last few weeks. So far, the biggest challenge has been crushing fatigue in the middle of the day. It starts around 11 AM and persists for a few hours. Dissipates in the afternoon. I am pretty sure it's the SSRI, as I have never had this before.
I do think it has dropped my libido and sensitivity. The upside is that I am able to last more than two seconds, which my wife appreciates!
I started sertraline 50mg for four days followed by 100mg for the last few weeks. So far, the biggest challenge has been crushing fatigue in the middle of the day. It starts around 11 AM and persists for a few hours. Dissipates in the afternoon. I am pretty sure it's the SSRI, as I have never had this before.
I do think it has dropped my libido and sensitivity. The upside is that I am able to last more than two seconds, which my wife appreciates!
Charliebizz
Well-Known Member
Did you have depression before ssri ? I’ve actually had more depression since coming off low dose lexapro 3 years ago.Update after 8 months on escitalopram:
What is TRT and What is NOT TRT
Since it is Christmas time and there is no better time to ridicule "experts" who don't understand what the heck they are talking about... https://www.center4menshealth.com/PDFs/Myth_2.pdf So if you get bored this Holiday season take a look at above and marvel at what's wrong with this picture...
Emotional numbing/pro-depression effect definitely there but the anti-anxiety/panic effect has been tremendous.
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tareload
Guest
Oh yeah, last 25 years at least. Good thing I never tried lexapro to treat it. Now I can use the lexapro to run more Test and cover anxiety while trying to look bigger than a swimmer.
SSRI is big time pro depressant for me. But used to dealing with depression. Anxiety and panic a whole different ballgame for me.
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Charliebizz
Well-Known Member
I’m the opposite. I can deal with the anxiety better than the depression.
before ssri when your trt dose was too high. Did you also get fatigue. That’s my only real issue now if I crank my t up. I get more depression and more fatigue. But I get awesome libido and erections. So weird. I was thinking about going back on ssri. But was also dabbling in pregnenolone since mine is rock bottom.
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tareload
Guest
Yeah I got the fatigue before the SSRI as well. I am just having to slowly come to grips with my poor anabolic drug tolerance.
I wish you the best finding what works for you. It surely is not a linear process for some of us
FunkOdyssey
Seeker of Wisdom
LOL. I think your honesty is refreshing and I enjoy the self-effacing humor.
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tareload
Guest
That is all I have. Might as well try to leverage it. Thanks Pal!
I'm with you, brother. For reference, see my last 1000 posts!
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