Always good to be a bit cynical. Nothing wrong with that
Nandrolone Experiences
- Thread starter DS3
- Start date
Always good to be a bit cynical. Nothing wrong with that
To consider what’s healthy u have to look at total T, SHBG and/ or free T. Before HRT when I felt absolutely horrible my total T was around 700. But my SHBG was close to 60 and my free T was bottom of the barrel on one test, and below the bottom of the range on another test. And trust me, I felt every bit of having low free T. Couldn’t believe I could feel that bad. So if u were to just look at my total T u would of probably thought I had perfect T levels, and very healthy in that regard. But that couldn’t be further from the truth at the time. So just make sure u always take into consideration SHBG and free T. Free T is what matters.
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I responded in your other thread. This thread is about nandrolone.
DixieWrecked
Well-Known Member
Thought I'd hare my recent experience. Been on nandrolone for a few months now. Feel like absolute ass, mentally. No drive. No libido. Anhedonia. My life has taken a decent hit professionally and socially. I can barely get going to do anything. This stuff just isn't for me.
What’s your protocol the last few months been?
DixieWrecked
Well-Known Member
My protocol has been 150 TC and 100 ND split into EOD dosing. At the very beginning I felt good beause its always exciting trying differnet compounds but as time went on I noticed the low feelings growing more substantial until one day it just hit me and I realized I was barely functioning. I'm even on 300mg Wellbutrin and that doesnt seem to do anything. I feel like the ND is blocking my dopamine receptors or something. I'd say its almost difficult to conjour the gumption just to eat. I'll go a step further and say I'm full blown depressed. Started getting choked up walking through a grocery store, seeing all the holiday items. Couldn't even tell you why other than something to do with childhood trauma. Not really sure. Having a dick that barely works isn't exactly good for moral either. Nandrolone murders my libido. A few times I've caught myself thinking about death, like if God were to take me now, I'd be ok with it. I'm trying to hold it together for this girl I am seeing. She doesnt know what I am going through. She probably just thinks I am the biggest asshole to walk this planet and that I don't care about her in any way.
I'm not trying to freak you guys out. I know its just the hormones. I tell myself that all the time. It'll fade and i'll be better again soon. But holy shit, this sucks. Just going to keep plugging along until this shit gets out of my system.
Crazy thing is, I've done this before and the same thing happened.
Now I know for sure this stuff just doesnt sit well with me.
I'm not trying to freak you guys out. I know its just the hormones. I tell myself that all the time. It'll fade and i'll be better again soon. But holy shit, this sucks. Just going to keep plugging along until this shit gets out of my system.
Crazy thing is, I've done this before and the same thing happened.
Now I know for sure this stuff just doesnt sit well with me.
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Different life circumstances but very similar experiences and psychological outcomes with me when I used nandrolone. It took about 3 weeks after I discontinued its use for the severe depression to lift.
Prayers to you man. One day at a time. You will be back to yourself soon enough.
Dixie, exact same experience for me. Tried it twice in the last 6 months and had to stop due to the emotional/mental toll. Made me very irritable and depressed. To the point, my wife has asking if I was taking something different. Happened both times. It takes several weeks to get out of your system. But every day seems a little bit better. Hang in there. My provider explained to me that roughly 10% of guys on nandrolone end up having issues due to norepinephrine cascading, which in me caused excessive fight or flight.
bochinit
Active Member
How does high E2 cause severe depression?
When I was on a very similar protocol as @DixieWrecked about 2 years ago, taking Anastrozole to drive down E2 did not resolve the severe depression that presented itself with the addition of nandrolone. Logically, if it were solely high E2 or the sensitizing of estrogen receptors due to the addition of nandrolone causing the depression, one would suspect that driving down estrogen with small doses of Anastrozole would resolve these symptoms.
DixieWrecked
Well-Known Member
my bloodwork with this protocol had my E2 around 35. So it wasn't very high. Perhaps it was the sensetizing of receptors. i don't know. But I do know that when I take anastrozole, my joints, bones and muscles hurt. I just feel like crap. For me nandrolone is permenant no-go.
Much of the research suggests a direct impact of the nandrolone hormone on the central nervous system. There is no research directly linking it to depression, however. This is not to suggest that it does not create depression in some men, simply that there has been a lack of inquiry from researchers.
Testosterone and it’s derivatives, including nandrolone, have a direct impact on the central nervous system independent of its metabolites (e.g., DHT and estrogen, or DHN in the case of nandrolone). As testosterone or its derivatives cross the blood-brain barrier, they can directly impact neurotransmitter levels including but not limited to GABA, glutamate, dopamine, serotonin, and acetylcholine. The changing level of these neurotransmitters may alter mood, energy, and even personality.
Nandrolone’s impact on depression is more likely attributed to its direct effects in the CNS once it crosses the blood-brain barrier by altering various levels of neurotransmitters, including dopamine.
It is very unlikely that nandrolone’s potential for creating depressive states in some men has anything to do with DHN, nor the sensitizing of estrogen or progesterone receptors. If this plays any role, it is likely minimal.
The Impact of Nandrolone Decanoate on the Central Nervous System - PMC
Nandrolone is included in the class II of anabolic androgenic steroids (AAS) which is composed of 19-nor-testosterone-derivates. In general, AAS is a broad and rapidly increasing group of synthetic androgens used both clinically and illicitly. AAS ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Same here. Anastrozole is the absolute worst medication I have ever put in my body.
bochinit
Active Member
@DS3 but if nandrolone does cause it by itself hos many men use it without sufer depression? Nelson Vergel for example used it for 20 years+. What's the trick?
Individualized responses to medications. @Jason Sypolt uses nandrolone and has fantastic results, mentally and physically. @DixieWrecked used nandrolone and experienced severe depression. What’s the difference? Their CNS response is very different to the medication. It is as simple and as complicated as that. Very simply, this means that some men will respond well to nandrolone, and others will not (independent of estrogen, progesterone, or DHN related explanations).
The trick is knowing that the cause for these individualized responses is multi factorial, but by and large based on how their CNS responds to the medication. While estrogen, prolactin, and other explanations may play a minor role, if any, the emphasis in this case is on widely varying differences in how a patient responds mentally to a medication.
The trick, then, is to not take a medication that you do not respond well to. That simple principle applies to any drug, TRT-related or otherwise.
Iirc wasn’t this study in vitro also ?
Not sure tbh. I don’t trust or pay attention to most studies done on nandrolone. They’re usually done in vitro, or done on rats with way higher doses than humans would ever take, or the studies are done on nandrolone by itself, and who knows what effects are from crashed E2 levels and what are from the compound itself. So it’s rare that I see a nandrolone study that I put any weight into
T
tareload
Guest
TRT to Supraphysiological Levels for Body Building
A key degree of freedom (that makes your question difficult to answer with a reasonable degree of confidence) is time. Chronic toxicity or acute toxicity? The figure above, while simplified, is instructive as an introduction. Add time above to make a 3d plot which would consider chronic...
www.excelmale.com
Please see the HEDs (human equivalent doses) estimated in the table linked above. You can't simply compare the mg/kg used in the rodent studies and use that same mg/kg for what a human would take. This is a common mistake when folks not skilled in the art try to interpret these studies. Perpetuating this error in analysis only further reinforces misinformation among those trying to learn.
For example, for a rat you'd take the mg/kg from rat study and then divide that by ~6 to calculate an equivalent human mg/kg based on body surface area. Is this perfect? Absolutely not. There are volumes written about the transfer of rodent toxicology data to humans.
However, if you look at the estimated HEDs (for example 90 kg human) above in mg/week after properly translating the rodent research, the estimated dosages per week should give a reasonable individual pause. You can also take a look at the graphs I made for testosterone later in the thread I linked above.
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