I must come clean

[tropicaldaze1950]

My guy from Defy med said this would happen! He said that most mainstream (local) doctors and even endocrinologists are drastically under-educated in the field of male hormonal/reproductive issues. What a kick in the balls! (no pun intended)

Are you in Florida? If so, my urologist has over 30 years experience.

 

[Rabbit91476]

If you're in the US, you can buy tadalafil from India. ADC is one of the reputable sites. If he prescribes brand, empty out your wallet.

I don’t know about empty wallet I pay cash for 2.5 mg daily for rx. And it 26$ for 30 days

 

[DarkMan X]

I don’t know if I’d call 600’s free t toxic so much as hilariously high. If I read all this correctly you injected 3ml subq? Did it leave a giant mound there?

Like others have said, if you stop injecting test, your test will go down. You wouldn’t take that other stuff unless you wanted to come off TRT and that’s a different thing.

No mound, but it felt like a "giant granite marble" under my skin in my abdominal fat area.

But I learned my mistake from that specific episode: I used a one-inch needle into my abdominal fat area (subQ). I learned that you should NEVER use a needle longer than 1/2 an inch for subQ purposes.

 

[DarkMan X]

Are you in Florida? If so, my urologist has over 30 years experience.

I wish I was in Florida... everyone's moving there anyway.... Nope - I'm in NY.

 

[DarkMan X]

Men's Health

Find information on men's health issues, fitness, and lifestyle at the Men's Health Center.

www.webmd.com

Thanks, Systemlord.

 

[DarkMan X]

I don’t know if I’d call 600’s free t toxic so much as hilariously high. If I read all this correctly you injected 3ml subq? Did it leave a giant mound there?

Like others have said, if you stop injecting test, your test will go down. You wouldn’t take that other stuff unless you wanted to come off TRT and that’s a different thing.

So are you saying that my levels are not exactly worth freaking out about?

 

[DarkMan X]

Given my estrogen levels below - what would happen if I stopped taking my Arimidex 2mg / week (taken for about like 10 months)?? I only ask this because many people on this forum say very nasty things about Arimidex... Is the only real possible side effect really just gynecomastia?

 

[Anonymon]

So are you saying that my levels are not exactly worth freaking out about?

They’re obviously too high but in the short term if you just stopped test until they were down a bit and got on a more normal level you’d be fine. I wouldn’t be very worried since it’ll clear out in short order. Relax.

Regarding arimidex: the general wisdom now is that most people seem to do better without an AI if they’re within reasonable, albeit elevated, testosterone and estrogen levels. Your 600ml dose put you over that end, so if you do come off the AI, I’d wait until less test was floating around just in case.

E2 might contribute to gyno in some people but the general wisdom now is that some people are just more prone to gyno than others. My E2’s actually almost twice yours but I’m seemingly immune to gyno no matter what I do. In the super high T range you were/are in, I’d proceed cautiously with dropping any AI’s, but long term, most people find they do better without them at normalish test levels and even outside that range, and some people end up getting gyno even if they do use AI’s. Some guys get gyno even off TRT and without E2 that’s very high. Some races seem more prone to gyno, like Indian guys.

There are a lot of side effects of elevated E2 that can sometimes come up, but it’s a grab bag for everyone. Some guys get erectile dysfunction when it’s too high. A lot of guys get the opposite and sex is better and easier and libido is higher. It’s very person dependent. Outside of gyno though, all of those sides are typically temporary. I’ve heard worse long term stories from AI’s then elevated E2.

Proceed with caution in whatever you decide to do, use your best judgement regarding anything any of us say, and relax. You’re not going to be the first guy to die of elevated E2. Your test is high but in bodybuilding terms it’s actually not all that high and you are coming down from that dose anyway.

If your E2 was higher, your free T is also usually higher, and in a lot of people that balances things out. Still, I’d wait a little before coming off any AI’s and do so because you thought it was the best idea based on hearing from people and potentially consulting with your TRT guy/gal. We’re all very different in all this.

 

[DarkMan X]

They’re obviously too high but in the short term if you just stopped test until they were down a bit and got on a more normal level you’d be fine. I wouldn’t be very worried since it’ll clear out in short order. Relax.

Regarding arimidex: the general wisdom now is that most people seem to do better without an AI if they’re within reasonable, albeit elevated, testosterone and estrogen levels. Your 600ml dose put you over that end, so if you do come off the AI, I’d wait until less test was floating around just in case.

E2 might contribute to gyno in some people but the general wisdom now is that some people are just more prone to gyno than others. My E2’s actually almost twice yours but I’m seemingly immune to gyno no matter what I do. In the super high T range you were/are in, I’d proceed cautiously with dropping any AI’s, but long term, most people find they do better without them at normalish test levels and even outside that range, and some people end up getting gyno even if they do use AI’s. Some guys get gyno even off TRT and without E2 that’s very high. Some races seem more prone to gyno, like Indian guys.

There are a lot of side effects of elevated E2 that can sometimes come up, but it’s a grab bag for everyone. Some guys get erectile dysfunction when it’s too high. A lot of guys get the opposite and sex is better and easier and libido is higher. It’s very person dependent. Outside of gyno though, all of those sides are typically temporary. I’ve heard worse long term stories from AI’s then elevated E2.

Proceed with caution in whatever you decide to do, use your best judgement regarding anything any of us say, and relax. You’re not going to be the first guy to die of elevated E2. Your test is high but in bodybuilding terms it’s actually not all that high and you are coming down from that dose anyway.

If your E2 was higher, your free T is also usually higher, and in a lot of people that balances things out. Still, I’d wait a little before coming off any AI’s and do so because you thought it was the best idea based on hearing from people and potentially consulting with your TRT guy/gal. We’re all very different in all this.

Thanks man, I appreciate your well-written response.

Some say E2 is "so deadly for guys". But some others - Like Nelson Vergel - says that low E2 can actually keep you fat (I am fat - which is why I started test-cyp in the first place).

 

[DarkMan X]

There's nothing practical about it, your urologist is out to lunch!

The common sense and practical approach to tapering down your levels is to reduce your T dosage. I think it's high time to start searching for a new doctor to manage your TRT, because should you encounter anymore problems on TRT, you're going to need someone more competent.

Cialis is FDA approved to treat BPH and has many other health benefits.

I did ask my local endocrinologist to do it, he agreed and he has prescribed Depo-Testosterone two times already. This guy also manages my diabetes, so it's better to have one guy taking care of those two things at once.

However, he has not stated that I need any estrogen blockers or HcG like Defy did and Royal Med did.

 

[Anonymon]

Thanks man, I appreciate your well-written response.

Some say E2 is "so deadly for guys". But some others - Like Nelson Vergel - says that low E2 can actually keep you fat (I am fat - which is why I started test-cyp in the first place).

TRT was basically built by bodybuilders screwing around with their hormones to look like the Hulk, and doctors looking at isolated bloodwork variables to get insurance to sign off on things. In the former context, AI’s probably do have a strong purpose in many cycles. Especially on some compounds that promote conversion. Not all to be sure, especially if you have a DHT derivative in there, but there are strong arguments for AI’s in that situation.

In the doctor context, they see most guys have E2 in the 20’s so they want you to have E2 in the 20’s. Getting you there could all but kill you and a lot of them wouldn’t really care because their goal is to treat the number and not the patient. It’s largely bloodwork based. It’s the same situation that had many TRT protocols being one 200ml shot every 2-3 weeks. You take some blood tests and they’re okay with what they see so they stick to it.

Before TRT I actually had my E2 be too low. It felt like all the light had been sucked out of the world. I couldn’t even feel hot or cold. My sperm actually gets thicker the higher my E2 is.

 

[DarkMan X]

There is a more serious reason I inquired about stopping Arimidex. Research has shown that all AI's are very bad for your heart. I've been noticing much more chest pain, thumping headaches over the past 6-8 weeks. So I bought a brand new Omron blood pressure monitor from CVS for $200. My blood pressure is not perfect, but it's not that bad either. It swims from 122/xx to 155/xx or 164/xx.

Even though high testosterone can elevate blood pressure, it would be wrong to simply forget that I take Arimidex weekly as well - which is just as bad for the heart (if not more so).

I actually tested my E2 (and all other hormones) today. My results won't be in for like 12 days. In the meantime, I will try the advice of FengFeng and basically abstain from Arimidex for as long as possible. If I start feeling any breast pain, I will take 1/2 a pill (0.5mg).

I think my plan is pretty scientifically sound. If not - I'm open to suggestions.

 

[DarkMan X]

treat the number and not the patient.

WOW..... so sad, but so true.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

There is a more serious reason I inquired about stopping Arimidex. Research has shown that all AI's are very bad for your heart. I've been noticing much more chest pain, thumping headaches over the past 6-8 weeks. So I bought a brand new Omron blood pressure monitor from CVS for $200. My blood pressure is not perfect, but it's not that bad either. It swims from 122/xx to 155/xx or 164/xx.

Even though high testosterone can elevate blood pressure, it would be wrong to simply forget that I take Arimidex weekly as well - which is just as bad for the heart (if not more so).

I actually tested my E2 (and all other hormones) today. My results won't be in for like 12 days. In the meantime, I will try the advice of FengFeng and basically abstain from Arimidex for as long as possible. If I start feeling any breast pain, I will take 1/2 a pill (0.5mg).

I think my plan is pretty scientifically sound. If not - I'm open to suggestions.

I missed the part of your plan that detailed your current TRT dose and frequency. That's sort of the elephant in the room here after you accidentally went on cycle last time.

I don't know how, but my testosterone jumped up very fast (less than 2 months) to OVER THE MAX LEVEL.
....
I've been injecting about 2 - 3 mL's per week of T-Cypionate.

 

[DarkMan X]

Most doctors would love to scapegoat my testosterone for causing my heart issues. But they would NEVER blame arimidex even if it was the true cause.

 

[tareload]

Most doctors would love to scapegoat my testosterone for causing my heart issues. But they would NEVER blame arimidex even if it was the true cause.

Blast 600 mg/week of TC then throw the 2 mg/week of anastrozole under the bus. Ouch. You probably helped yourself with the AI while on your blast

What is your current protocol?

 

[DarkMan X]

Blast 600 mg/week of TC then throw the 2 mg/week of anastrozole under the bus. Ouch. You probably helped yourself with the AI while on your blast

What is your current protocol?

Can you just say what you really mean without the abbreviations and the sarcasm? Thanks.

 

[tareload]

Can you just say what you really mean without the abbreviations and the sarcasm? Thanks.

Maybe you can answer some questions or not and continue with your deliberate ignorance act. Up to you.

 

[DarkMan X]

Maybe you can answer some questions or not and continue with your deliberate ignorance act. Up to you.

1 mL t-cyp once a week.
1000 units Pregnyl SubQ once a week
2 mg Arimidex/week (but I must suspect that it clearly has no positive use - so I'm gonna stop it dead for now)

By the way: In addition to Nelson Vergel's established links, I found another one that confirms that specifically Arimidex can cause weight GAIN which I have had too much of since first starting TRT a year ago. (Here it is - Does anastrozole cause weight gain?)

P.S. Readalot: I am not trying to be a prick. But this hormonal stuff, plus being lied to by doctors can really stress you the F*CK out

 

[tareload]

1 mL t-cyp once a week.
1000 units Pregnyl SubQ once a week
2 mg Arimidex/week (but I must suspect that it clearly has no positive use - so I'm gonna stop it dead for now)

By the way: In addition to Nelson Vergel's established links, I found another one that confirms that specifically Arimidex can cause weight GAIN which I have had too much of since first starting TRT a year ago. (Here it is - Does anastrozole cause weight gain?)

P.S. Readalot: I am not trying to be a prick. But this hormonal stuff, plus being lied to by doctors can really stress you the F*CK out

I understand!

So let your levels come down per above advice then switch to 0.3 to 0.5 ml/week (60 to 100mg/week) of test cyp and drop the anastrozole. Reassess with blood work and how you feel in 6 to 8 weeks. This would be a reasonable TRT protocol to start. You got hit by an unscrupulous T mill.

Assuming your peak above on TT/fT was for the 200 mg/week (1 ml/week of 200 mg/ml) dosing you have plenty of room to lower your weekly dose.

Hang in there.