Feeling Better Off TRT?

[GreenMachineX]

I'm wondering if there's anyone here that just never felt right on TRT whether due to anxiety or anything, and felt better off of it. I'm 8 days since my last daily injection, and it's been a Rollercoaster the entire time I've been on TRT for these past 7-8 or whatever years, on twice per week, EOD and most recently ED. The past 2 days my anxiety has actually improved quite a bit. There's a strong chance that I just didn't give it long enough at my last dose of 5mg daily (likely) and this is that continued adaptation as levels come down, but I'm exhausted from this battle. So, can anyone relate and just stayed off for the better?

 

[waterbottle1258@tutanota.]

Just came back from a week long vacation where I missed two injections. My erections are better and I have a feeling high e2 is to blame for a lot of trt symptoms. I planned on using this vacation as the beginning of my PCT to get off from 5 years of use. PCT meds are ready to go once my BAC water comes in

 

[GreenMachineX]

Just came back from a week long vacation where I missed two injections. My erections are better and I have a feeling high e2 is to blame for a lot of trt symptoms. I planned on using this vacation as the beginning of my PCT to get off from 5 years of use. PCT meds are ready to go once my BAC water comes in

That's just it...according to my labs, my test, Free test and e2 were always in good places but I never felt great. I have nothing for pct so I might have it rough in a little bit. Or, I may feel fine like I do now. So confusing.

 

[Fortunate]

I'm wondering if there's anyone here that just never felt right on TRT whether due to anxiety or anything, and felt better off of it. I'm 8 days since my last daily injection, and it's been a Rollercoaster the entire time I've been on TRT for these past 7-8 or whatever years, on twice per week, EOD and most recently ED. The past 2 days my anxiety has actually improved quite a bit. There's a strong chance that I just didn't give it long enough at my last dose of 5mg daily (likely) and this is that continued adaptation as levels come down, but I'm exhausted from this battle. So, can anyone relate and just stayed off for the better?

TRT can be difficult. To quote some wise men: I believe it was @Cataceous who referred to testosterone as a blunt tool; and, the late John Crisler used to refer to TRT as trying to balance on slippery rocks.

I, too, have struggled a lot. In the process, I have made some observations that may be helpful for you. It sounds like at least some of your struggles may be due your being unintentionally supraphysiologic at times. I think your plan to do 5mg daily is wise. But, it is possible that you implemented it while your levels were still out of whack, and any exogenous test may fuel the fire in that setting. If you can allow the test to wash out (wait 2-3 weeks), and then try daily microdosing, you may have better luck.

One trick I use if I am doing this is to use Natesto to bridge the gap. It's short acting and is out of your system quickly. You may mitigate low T symptoms with Natesto while your body is clearing the esters you recently injected. On one hand, this approach does not really make sense, as if T levels are high, why would adding pulses to the already high levels be helpful? On the other hand, since we often don't know what levels are when we are making protocol changes, it's a way to ensure that as levels drop, you blunt the low T symptoms. Sounds great, but I can't promise it will work for you. That said, it has worked reasonably well for me. Along those lines, you might even consider Natesto as a primary mode of treatment.

Do you have labs? Do you have any idea if feeling bad correlates with T, E2 or DHT levels? When you are anxious, do you have any idea what your heart rate or blood pressure are? I suspect some guys have more beta adrenergic sensitivity to TRT than others, which can push blood pressure and/or pulse. This can possibly trigger anxiety. I have gotten incredibly anxious on creams, and I suspect it's due to skyrocketing T or DHT levels. Do you use hCG? For some it helps, others it causes problems.

I am by no means an expert, but I have also struggled a lot. One thing I have learned is that testing a new protocol can take time and what you were doing immediately prior to a change will influence how you feel at the beginning of a new protocol.

 

[GreenMachineX]

TRT can be difficult. To quote some wise men: I believe it was @Cataceous who referred to testosterone as a blunt tool; and, the late John Crisler used to refer to TRT as trying to balance on slippery rocks.

I, too, have struggled a lot. In the process, I have made some observations that may be helpful for you. It sounds like at least some of your struggles may be due your being unintentionally supraphysiologic at times. I think your plan to do 5mg daily is wise. But, it is possible that you implemented it while your levels were still out of whack, and any exogenous test may fuel the fire in that setting. If you can allow the test to wash out (wait 2-3 weeks), and then try daily microdosing, you may have better luck.

One trick I use if I am doing this is to use Natesto to bridge the gap. It's short acting and is out of your system quickly. You may mitigate low T symptoms with Natesto while your body is clearing the esters you recently injected. On one hand, this approach does not really make sense, as if T levels are high, why would adding pulses to the already high levels be helpful? On the other hand, since we often don't know what levels are when we are making protocol changes, it's a way to ensure that as levels drop, you blunt the low T symptoms. Sounds great, but I can't promise it will work for you. That said, it has worked reasonably well for me. Along those lines, you might even consider Natesto as a primary mode of treatment.

Do you have labs? Do you have any idea if feeling bad correlates with T, E2 or DHT levels? When you are anxious, do you have any idea what your heart rate or blood pressure are? I suspect some guys have more beta adrenergic sensitivity to TRT than others, which can push blood pressure and/or pulse. This can possibly trigger anxiety. I have gotten incredibly anxious on creams, and I suspect it's due to skyrocketing T or DHT levels. Do you use hCG? For some it helps, others it causes problems.

I am by no means an expert, but I have also struggled a lot. One thing I have learned is that testing a new protocol can take time and what you were doing immediately prior to a change will influence how you feel at the beginning of a new protocol.

Excellent points. Perhaps I just need to go back to the last dose of 5mg roughly and stick with it since my free test levels were pretty good on that a couple weeks in...then see where they end up. E2 has been an issue in the past for sure, and it was 15 when I was on 5mg daily for a couple weeks. There's a chance it could've kept dropping as time went on too. I've never had dht tested so I'm not sure, I just know I'm very susceptible to dht-type side effects like vascularity, body hair, etc.

 

[GreenMachineX]

TRT can be difficult. To quote some wise men: I believe it was @Cataceous who referred to testosterone as a blunt tool; and, the late John Crisler used to refer to TRT as trying to balance on slippery rocks.

I, too, have struggled a lot. In the process, I have made some observations that may be helpful for you. It sounds like at least some of your struggles may be due your being unintentionally supraphysiologic at times. I think your plan to do 5mg daily is wise. But, it is possible that you implemented it while your levels were still out of whack, and any exogenous test may fuel the fire in that setting. If you can allow the test to wash out (wait 2-3 weeks), and then try daily microdosing, you may have better luck.

One trick I use if I am doing this is to use Natesto to bridge the gap. It's short acting and is out of your system quickly. You may mitigate low T symptoms with Natesto while your body is clearing the esters you recently injected. On one hand, this approach does not really make sense, as if T levels are high, why would adding pulses to the already high levels be helpful? On the other hand, since we often don't know what levels are when we are making protocol changes, it's a way to ensure that as levels drop, you blunt the low T symptoms. Sounds great, but I can't promise it will work for you. That said, it has worked reasonably well for me. Along those lines, you might even consider Natesto as a primary mode of treatment.

Do you have labs? Do you have any idea if feeling bad correlates with T, E2 or DHT levels? When you are anxious, do you have any idea what your heart rate or blood pressure are? I suspect some guys have more beta adrenergic sensitivity to TRT than others, which can push blood pressure and/or pulse. This can possibly trigger anxiety. I have gotten incredibly anxious on creams, and I suspect it's due to skyrocketing T or DHT levels. Do you use hCG? For some it helps, others it causes problems.

I am by no means an expert, but I have also struggled a lot. One thing I have learned is that testing a new protocol can take time and what you were doing immediately prior to a change will influence how you feel at the beginning of a new protocol.

When I'm in panic or anxiety mode, I don't bother checking pulse or blood pressure anymore as I know it'll be ridiculous...bp could be up to 160-170/90-100. Heart rate usually doesn't go higher than 80-90 of I'm sitting down during an attack. But, when I'm done, my BP has been 120's over 80 without medication recently.

I really don't understand this part though. When I was on eod or twice per week protocol, and trough free T was between 105 to 115, my blood pressure was 140/80 even while on 40mg telmisartan. When I was on 10mg daily, trough free T was 155, top of range, but blood pressure was 115/75 on telmisartan, but I had anxiety all day long, then couldn't sleep at night. It was bad. And in all 3 of those situations, I was on each protocol for at least 3 months.

So, daily protocol has definitely had a positive effect on blood pressure. As I brought daily dose down to 5mg, I stopped taking telmisartan because my BP was going down to 110/59 and I was getting postural hypotension and dizzy spells.

But, like you said regarding dose, if I was already too high free t, and slight adjustments up at all may have just kept sending me overboard. After looking back at my labs just now, I wonder what 3 months at a trough free test of 105 would feel like, since I was pretty stable at that trough on EOD and twice per week.

25mg EOD - 115 Trough free test - felt pretty stable, some anxiety, irritability and mild sleep disturbances

50mg twice per week - 105 trough free test - pretty stable, some anxiety and sleep disturbances

5mg daily - 105 trough free test (only 2 weeks and just dropped from 7mg for a month and 10mg for 4 months before that), by no means stable

 

[eli]

What were your numbers at 5mg daily subQ?

 

[GreenMachineX]

What were your numbers at 5mg daily subQ?

I never tried subq because I'm already a low aromatizer. Even when free test was very top of range, e2 was 30. When free test is around 105-115, e2 is 15. I've heard subq can drop it further.

 

[Gladiator]

I'm wondering if there's anyone here that just never felt right on TRT whether due to anxiety or anything, and felt better off of it. I'm 8 days since my last daily injection, and it's been a Rollercoaster the entire time I've been on TRT for these past 7-8 or whatever years, on twice per week, EOD and most recently ED. The past 2 days my anxiety has actually improved quite a bit. There's a strong chance that I just didn't give it long enough at my last dose of 5mg daily (likely) and this is that continued adaptation as levels come down, but I'm exhausted from this battle. So, can anyone relate and just stayed off for the better?

5mg daily seems very low but you say your numbers are good.

Most people go on feelings and don’t worry about numbers.

What did your numbers look like on 5mg a day ?

 

[GreenMachineX]

5mg daily seems very low but you say your numbers are good.

Most people go on feelings and don’t worry about numbers.

What did your numbers look like on 5mg a day ?

Free test was 105 on range 35-155. I'm also pretty sure the higher doses were responsible for the excess anxiety and insomnia.

 

[GreenMachineX]

TRT can be difficult. To quote some wise men: I believe it was @Cataceous who referred to testosterone as a blunt tool; and, the late John Crisler used to refer to TRT as trying to balance on slippery rocks.

I, too, have struggled a lot. In the process, I have made some observations that may be helpful for you. It sounds like at least some of your struggles may be due your being unintentionally supraphysiologic at times. I think your plan to do 5mg daily is wise. But, it is possible that you implemented it while your levels were still out of whack, and any exogenous test may fuel the fire in that setting. If you can allow the test to wash out (wait 2-3 weeks), and then try daily microdosing, you may have better luck.

One trick I use if I am doing this is to use Natesto to bridge the gap. It's short acting and is out of your system quickly. You may mitigate low T symptoms with Natesto while your body is clearing the esters you recently injected. On one hand, this approach does not really make sense, as if T levels are high, why would adding pulses to the already high levels be helpful? On the other hand, since we often don't know what levels are when we are making protocol changes, it's a way to ensure that as levels drop, you blunt the low T symptoms. Sounds great, but I can't promise it will work for you. That said, it has worked reasonably well for me. Along those lines, you might even consider Natesto as a primary mode of treatment.

Do you have labs? Do you have any idea if feeling bad correlates with T, E2 or DHT levels? When you are anxious, do you have any idea what your heart rate or blood pressure are? I suspect some guys have more beta adrenergic sensitivity to TRT than others, which can push blood pressure and/or pulse. This can possibly trigger anxiety. I have gotten incredibly anxious on creams, and I suspect it's due to skyrocketing T or DHT levels. Do you use hCG? For some it helps, others it causes problems.

I am by no means an expert, but I have also struggled a lot. One thing I have learned is that testing a new protocol can take time and what you were doing immediately prior to a change will influence how you feel at the beginning of a new protocol.

What is your protocol by the way?

It's now been 2 weeks since my last injection. Need to gather my juevos and start again...feeling the hypo effects kicking in (not horrible yet though). Terrified of another experience like I had the night of my last injection though. Time to man up!

 

[Fortunate]

What is your protocol by the way?

It's now been 2 weeks since my last injection. Need to gather my juevos and start again...feeling the hypo effects kicking in (not horrible yet though). Terrified of another experience like I had the night of my last injection though. Time to man up!

Well, I’m not the best example of someone who has a stable, rational protocol. I repeatedly trial a number of different things to try to find symptom relief without triggering of side effects.

So far, the most predictable has been Natesto with hCG. That said, I do sometimes feel a little hypogonadic on this protocol. I think the key is to give it time, as Natesto allows for recovery of your endogenous production. So, it takes some patience.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Well, I’m not the best example of someone who has a stable, rational protocol. I repeatedly trial a number of different things to try to find symptom relief without triggering of side effects.

So far, the most predictable has been Natesto with hCG. That said, I do sometimes feel a little hypogonadic on this protocol. I think the key is to give it time, as Natesto allows for recovery of your endogenous production. So, it takes some patience.

Sounds like we're in a similar boat. I haven't tried Natesto yet though. I really want cyp to work too, so I'm going to try this last shot at 4-5mg daily. It's so bizarre to me though how too high of a dose of test caused all this issues, but years ago I blasted prop, enanthate, anything without issue. I just don't get it.

 

[Fortunate]

Sounds like we're in a similar boat. I haven't tried Natesto yet though. I really want cyp to work too, so I'm going to try this last shot at 4-5mg daily. It's so bizarre to me though how too high of a dose of test caused all this issues, but years ago I blasted prop, enanthate, anything without issue. I just don't get it.

I know. This is a funky science. A lot of trial and error. I think physiologic changes impact what treatment responses we have. I have never blasted anything, but I have a similar phenomenon as you described in that I have tolerated high doses of cream in the past. Now, even minuscule doses make me feel like crap.

Best of luck. Maybe consider Natesto if things don’t go well.