Whoever Said Changing your Protocol Sucks was Right On, When does it End?

[Country23030]

You guys are taking huge swings at things in the dosing department and finding out that it's the wrong way to go about this. You cut the dose in half (basically) and wonder why you feel bad.

Try smaller doses on a more frequent basis!

 

[KenLowT]

Update Again:
Well it seems like the libido was short lived which seems to be the pattern. I inject twice a week and my libido shoots up on days of injection and then the half day after that. It then disappears until the next injection. Other than libido, this new protocol is much better. I'm feeling great physically, emotionally, and I'm having awesome workouts in the gym. Libido was the main reason I started TRT, but the energy I'm getting from TRT has been a blessing.

I will more than likely have to go up in my protocol if the libido issue persists, but like I said before, I'm going to wait the entire 6 weeks and then check my numbers. Good news is, I now have been referred to a urologist who (according to my endo) is willing to do combination therapy, testosterone cypionate and HCG. I have my first appointment with him in two weeks. The added bonus is that he is a fertility specialist as well which is important to me since my wife and I are still trying. If he doesn't work out, I'm going straight to Defy or another clinic like this in my area.

 

[CoastWatcher]

Update Again:
Well it seems like the libido was short lived which seems to be the pattern. I inject twice a week and my libido shoots up on days of injection and then the half day after that. It then disappears until the next injection. Other than libido, this new protocol is much better. I'm feeling great physically, emotionally, and I'm having awesome workouts in the gym. Libido was the main reason I started TRT, but the energy I'm getting from TRT has been a blessing.

I will more than likely have to go up in my protocol if the libido issue persists, but like I said before, I'm going to wait the entire 6 weeks and then check my numbers. Good news is, I now have been referred to a urologist who (according to my endo) is willing to do combination therapy, testosterone cypionate and HCG. I have my first appointment with him in two weeks. The added bonus is that he is a fertility specialist as well which is important to me since my wife and I are still trying. If he doesn't work out, I'm going straight to Defy or another clinic like this in my area.

Going "up" in your protocol, if by that you mean adding more testosterone per injection, may not deliver the results you hope for. Increasing the frequency of your injections, with a subtle alteration of the amount injected, is a path on which many have found success. Testosterone isn't a substance in which more-is-always-better wins. I didn't begin to feel well on a sustained basis until I went to daily injections of 16mg of enanthate. I now feel spectacular.

Few need to administer daily shots, but every other day isn't uncommon. Beware the all too tempting notion of simply adding testosterone. Maybe...maybe not.

 

[KenLowT]

Going "up" in your protocol, if by that you mean adding more testosterone per injection, may not deliver the results you hope for. Increasing the frequency of your injections, with a subtle alteration of the amount injected, is a path on which many have found success. Testosterone isn't a substance in which more-is-always-better wins. I didn't begin to feel well on a sustained basis until I went to daily injections of 16mg of enanthate. I now feel spectacular.

Few need to administer daily shots, but every other day isn't uncommon. Beware the all too tempting notion of simply adding testosterone. Maybe...maybe not.

It may not, but this is the lowest recommended dosage according to this board. I have a high body fat which may be the reason TRT has not been as effective for me in regards to libido. In a typical week, I might have an emerging libido one day of 7. That info suggests to me that I'm not where I'm supposed to be. I'm not talking about going up to huge amounts like I was before, but I definitely need to find that sweet spot in the 100-150mg range. Shifting to two injections per week and lowering the dose has helped the emotional roller coaster, but done nothing for my libido.

At this point I'll even take a libido that is just able to respond to my wife's advances, but my wish has always been for me to be the one to be in the mood in order to initiate love making. I wish it wasn't so complicated. I'm starting to think that this is just the way I'm wired, maybe I'm not meant to be a sexual initiator.​

 

[jdthoosier]

I'm having the opposite issues with respect to cypionate dosage. I was only doing 72mg / week via 2 injections.

Defy recommended bumping it up to 80mg at least to try and get a handle on the SHBG. So after a few weeks, my blood pressure is shooting up, I'm dealing with tired eyes, a flushing feeling around my neck, feeling jittery, etc. This happens every single time I try to bump up the dosage; after a few weeks, I start to hate how I feel.

I'm going to have to go back down to 72mg to try and get the blood pressure back down. I know from my past that body hates it when the total gets up to near 1000 or higher.

 

[madman]

It may not, but this is the lowest recommended dosage according to this board. I have a high body fat which may be the reason TRT has not been as effective for me in regards to libido. In a typical week, I might have an emerging libido one day of 7. That info suggests to me that I'm not where I'm supposed to be. I'm not talking about going up to huge amounts like I was before, but I definitely need to find that sweet spot in the 100-150mg range. Shifting to two injections per week and lowering the dose has helped the emotional roller coaster, but done nothing for my libido.

At this point I'll even take a libido that is just able to respond to my wife's advances, but my wish has always been for me to be the one to be in the mood in order to initiate love making. I wish it wasn't so complicated. I'm starting to think that this is just the way I'm wired, maybe I'm not meant to be a sexual initiator.​

Before jumping to this, that or the other wait until you have blood work done after 6 weeks on your new protocol (dose/injection frequency) to see how that dose of testosterone effects your TT, FT and e2 (sensitive assay) and other overall health markers and than decide whether dose/injection frequency needs to be tweaked.

I understand it can seem to be a struggle in the beginning or when one makes adjustments to a protocol but anytime dose is adjusted whether increased/decreased it takes 6 weeks for levels to stabilize and many can experience ups/downs during this period.

It can take time to notice improvements regarding overall low t symptoms

Libido is much more complex than just having healthy testosterone levels as there are many other factors which can come into play.

Overall most men should see improvements in libido/erectile function when testosterone levels as well as other hormones (e2,dht, prolactin) are in a healthy range but it is not always a given as again there are men who tend to struggle with libido (due to dysfunctional thyroid/adrenals, lack of quality sleep, excess stress, neurotransmitter health) and erectile function (due to vascular/endothelial dysfunction, underlying health issues).

When the human body is functioning optimally (physically/mentally).....one should have a healthy libido/erections.

Some men think trt will immediately improve all aspects related to healthy testosterone levels when in fact ones genetics, brain chemistry and lifestyle play a part in the overall picture.

 

[KenLowT]

I changed from 140mg down to 100mg (split into 50mg 2x/week like you) 5 weeks ago and experienced a very similar experience.

I actually ended up in Urgent Care last Friday after basically having daily panic/anxiety attacks the entire week. EKG and blood tests came back "normal", they said it didn't appear anything cardiac related and must be due to the drastic reduction in dosage of my TRT.

Unfortunately, in my case, it hasn't gotten much better by week 5. I'm due for 6-month labs with Defy tomorrow morning and fear that there's going to be 3-6 weeks wait to consult with Dr. Saya... there's just no way I can endure what I'm currently feeling that much longer, so something's going to have to change sooner than that.

I did not experience this when lowering from 160mg to 140mg, so to me, this seems like 100mg is just too low for me.

Wish I had better news, but I've heard it around here that reducing dosages significantly can be hell, and in my case, that's proven to be true.

Readyforchange, just wondering how you are doing now with your dosage drop? Have symptoms improved? I'm 5 weeks in and I have real lows, low mood, low libido, still not feeling better. Energy and strength are good; mood and libido not so good.

 

[KenLowT]

Update on Week 5:
Energy and strength have been wonderful as usual. Mood and libido still not very good. My mood fluctuates throughout the day. I feel sort of anxious and depressed in the morning and then things start to look up in the middle of the day. Some days I'm really low in mood and wondering if I should try something else to help. Other days I feel normal, but no inclination or sexual urges at night. This TRT is a roller coaster, even at this low dose. Considering getting on an antidepressant, but I want to see this through before making that decision. I'm going to talk to my shrink, but I will not start any medication until I'm convinced that anxiety, and low normal T levels are the culprit. Next week will be my 6th week on this new protocol so I'm excited about getting blood work to see where I'm at.

 

[Systemlord]

You should be "starting" to feel good by now, they may still have some fluctuations and more time will tell if this protocol ir right for you. I've been on TRT for over a year and am in the middle of a protocol change, today I feel great and tomorrow who knows. I got 3 more weeks to a stable state so fluctuations are the name of the game until the 6 week mark.

You make the slightest change now and it starts all over and another 6 weeks of fluctuations.

 

[KenLowT]

You should be "starting" to feel good by now, they may still have some fluctuations and more time will tell if this protocol ir right for you. I've been on TRT for over a year and am in the middle of a protocol change, today I feel great and tomorrow who knows. I got 3 more weeks to a stable state so fluctuations are the name of the game until the 6 week mark.

You make the slightest change now and it starts all over and another 6 weeks of fluctuations.

Oddly enough, I have felt better these past two days mood and anxiety wise. However, every time I say that I go back to feeling bad. Libido, still not there. I'm starting to wonder what libido is.

 

[WrenchHead80]

I'd search all other options before going to a anti depressant. Have you tried HCG yet? When I added that when I started TRT it made HUGE improvements in all departments.

If you do start HCG it'll reset your 6 week wait to do test.

 

[readyforchange]

Readyforchange, just wondering how you are doing now with your dosage drop? Have symptoms improved? I'm 5 weeks in and I have real lows, low mood, low libido, still not feeling better. Energy and strength are good; mood and libido not so good.

Feeling AWEFUL. Things started declining when I changed from 140mg down to 100mg per week back near the start of June and it's just continued to get progressively worse.

I had labs done 2 weeks ago and my Free T tanked (from 32 down to 11). Total T was 700. The fatigue is nearly unbearable -- like, I'm a pretty fit guy, and I get winded and legs tired after walking up my stairs. Forget working out or anything, I just try to find a way to make it through the day.

I really, really, wanted to hold out for Dr. Saya this time around and have to wait until August 21st to meet with him.

I know the right/best thing to do is gut it out on current regimen so he can adjust, but man, I might lose my job (and my mind) if I have to suffer through 3 more weeks of this.

So... to answer your question: Going from 140mg down to 100mg was THE worst decision I've made over the past year in my TRT journey. I just hope I can somehow und-do this and at leat get back to where I was, which involved battling high E2 and being reluctant to increase anastrozole, but at this point, I'd gladly increase anastrozole as opposed to feeling what I've gone through (and continue to go through) now.

 

[Deleted member 16042]

I seem to be pulling out of the slide from multiple decreases, though it seems I am now below the optimum dose of T. So no longer entirely miserable, but sub optimal.

Likewise, reductions have been quite difficult/traumatic. I cant imagine dropping 30% or more at a time!

I was on 150/wk back in October, but had to drop due to hematocrit and subsequently, E2 symptoms. Now after several downward adjustments I am on 84mg/week divided into 24mg QOD (both T cyp and HCG) along with 1/16mg anastrozole taken at time of injection. The combo seems to be working better, though I consistently have mild bloating every afternoon-evening of injection day

 

[Kirk001]

If you do start HCG it'll reset your 6 week wait to do test.

Why? Half-life of HCG is 2 days, so steady state is reached in 10 days.

 

[WrenchHead80]

Why? Half-life of HCG is 2 days, so steady state is reached in 10 days.

I'm sure it will have a effect on his T levels and other labs. I'd want to have myself on a protocol that has been fixed for at least 6 weeks to get a clearer picture of were my numbers settle on with time.

I do understand the point your making though, but I would think the body has to re-adjust and it will take longer then two weeks. Thats my opinion, I could be wrong.

 

[Kirk001]

I do understand the point your making though, but I would think the body has to re-adjust and it will take longer then two weeks. Thats my opinion, I could be wrong.

I mean it wouldn't hurt to wait, except you lose time. Some of us are impatient! lol

 

[KenLowT]

Feeling AWEFUL. Things started declining when I changed from 140mg down to 100mg per week back near the start of June and it's just continued to get progressively worse.

I had labs done 2 weeks ago and my Free T tanked (from 32 down to 11). Total T was 700. The fatigue is nearly unbearable -- like, I'm a pretty fit guy, and I get winded and legs tired after walking up my stairs. Forget working out or anything, I just try to find a way to make it through the day.

I really, really, wanted to hold out for Dr. Saya this time around and have to wait until August 21st to meet with him.

I know the right/best thing to do is gut it out on current regimen so he can adjust, but man, I might lose my job (and my mind) if I have to suffer through 3 more weeks of this.

So... to answer your question: Going from 140mg down to 100mg was THE worst decision I've made over the past year in my TRT journey. I just hope I can somehow und-do this and at leat get back to where I was, which involved battling high E2 and being reluctant to increase anastrozole, but at this point, I'd gladly increase anastrozole as opposed to feeling what I've gone through (and continue to go through) now.

Man, I'm sorry to hear that. My drop was even larger than yours and it really did suck. Thankfully, my mood and energy has stabilized, but my libido is still not there. I get my 6th week numbers on Saturday done, I'm interested to see where my levels are at right now. Hopefully your doctor can get you dialed in. I'm going to Defy as well, but didn't want to have to wait for Dr. Saya so I caved and went with the other doc. Once I get this blood work and physical in I'll get my first appointment.