Vince
Super Moderator
For me the hcg from reliable RX works. If you prefer, you can get a script from your doctor and buy hcg through your pharmacy.
Where to get HCG nowadays?
- Thread starter Kaliman911
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- hcg pharmacies trt
yup it will work, point was evidence to date suggests its just 1/4 of dosage it says, beleive i even saw 10,000 iu come back at 2500iu... may be storage from different vendors.. but would be interesting to see results from reliable rx and the brand.
what did your group testing show as far as dosage?
the pharma brand was pee based and was TOO potent lol ~100iu had be rockin and rollin, unfortunate think perhaps made my E too high and gave fluttering heart and muscle twitches. even tried sub 100iu and could feel it. prob should of tried pregnyl aswell just too see if ratio of different HCG isoforms would make a difference.
what did your group testing show as far as dosage?
the pharma brand was pee based and was TOO potent lol ~100iu had be rockin and rollin, unfortunate think perhaps made my E too high and gave fluttering heart and muscle twitches. even tried sub 100iu and could feel it. prob should of tried pregnyl aswell just too see if ratio of different HCG isoforms would make a difference.
did they test HCG? or just assuming its fine aswell? did they run tests to see contaminations or just dosage was correct? there is many medications that come from india that contain the said API but also 2-3 other API not listed.
Vince
Super Moderator
many of our pharmaceuticals come from places like India and China
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Most of our prescription drugs are manufactured overseas — but are they safe? - PMC
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Deleted member 43589
Well-Known Member
Hey, I have a suggestion. I have already seen test on the Indian HCG we all use they were done by liquid chromatography–mass spectrometry and SDS-Page. We have a guy on my board that runs SDS-Page from his lab and several labs in the EU and USA that also help on testing. Since YOU are the one making all the claims that these products are worthless, the ONUS is on you to prove it. Doesn't cost that much. Since you have family in the compounding business it should be very easy for you to test your claims. Purchase some of this very inexpensive HCG (~$15) and have it tested and post up the results. Prove us all wrong. Other wise, you words mean nothing. Put up of shut up.....
Many of us are using it and all who have previously used the EXPENSIVE products from compounding products and big pharma products have compared the results with the Indian product and get the same results. I run and UG board and we have guys there that test everything, ReliableRX and ADC were discovered by us almost 20 years ago and products were purchased and tested. These guys have been right on the money every time. Their products are very good. We also have guys who purchase raw products from China and the same thing, very good products. Are there shysters in China who sell crap (mostly with Whuhan addresses), absolutely, but those who purchase raw product have the common sense to test to make sure they are getting what they ordered. HCG is a is a glycoprotein composed of 237 amino acids with a molecular mass of 36.7 kDa. Doing a SDS-Page is a simple way to detect good HCG because it will form a thick line at the 36.7 kDA mark, and the thickness tells you the purity when compared to a pharma product such as Pfizer. If we have guys that can make HGH with 191 amino acids, why would it be so hard to do 237 aminos? This isn't rocket science that only your families compounding pharmacy has the ability to do.
When compounding pharmacies and big pharma start ripping Americans off selling HCG for over $300, people naturally start looking for alternative sources. Many of us have found them and are very happy. If you have a better source, please post up.
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compounding pharmacies dont have HPLC NOR do they produce peptides lol. i think that was part of my point. compounding pharmacies do not manufacture rather resell products they order from china. they skirt rules and JUST like supplement companies get a QC paper from china saying its all good when in reality may be contaminated or lesser purity. also HCG and anything with IU after dosage is actually a mixture of several forms, just FYI.. but I do get ur point and it aiming as a dig was a little silly IMO. just wanted to shed light on what compounding REALLY is as seems folks are bit confused, thinking they manufacture drugs for example. heck tylenol gets bad batches from time to time, but they are able to recall and have higher standards than many compounding pharmacies. yes some are much better then others esp when comes to sterile room SOPs etc.Hey, I have a suggestion. I have already seen test on the Indian HCG we all use they were done by liquid chromatography–mass spectrometry and SDS-Page. We have a guy on the board that runs SDS-Page from his lab and several labs in the EU and USA that also help on testing. Since YOU are the one making all the claims that these products are worthless, the ONUS is on you to prove it. Doesn't cost that much. Since you have family in the compounding business it should be very easy for you to test your claims. Purchase some of this very inexpensive HCG (~$15) and have it tested and post up the results. Prove us all wrong. Other wise, you words mean nothing. Put up of shut up.....
Many of us are using it and all who have previously used the EXPENSIVE products from compounding products and big pharma products have compared the results with the Indian product and get the same results. I run and UG board and we have guys there that test everything, ReliableRX and ADC were discovered by us almost 20 years ago and products were purchased and tested. These guys have been right on the money every time. Their products are very good. We also have guys who purchase raw products from China and the same thing, very good products. Are there shysters in China who sell crap (mostly with Whuhan addresses), absolutely, but those who purchase raw product have the common sense to test to make sure they are getting what they ordered. HCG is a is a glycoprotein composed of 237 amino acids with a molecular mass of 36.7 kDa. Doing a SDS-Page is a simple way to detect good HCG because it will form a thick line at the 36.7 kDA mark, and the thickness tells you the purity when compared to a pharma product such as Pfizer. If we have guys that can make HGH with 191 amino acids, why would it be so hard to do 237 aminos? This isn't rocket science that only your families compounding pharmacy has the ability to do.
When compounding pharmacies and big pharma start ripping Americans off selling HCG for over $300, people naturally start looking for alternative sources. Many of us have found them and are very happy. If you have a better source, please post up.
recombinant peptides remember use alot of solvents and ecoli some have varying amounts of left over ecoli puke/endotoxins... a little may be harmless but we have NO idea levels of those when come from chinese and no batch number or tracking..
ok i will dig up the test results of some indian HCG no worries. yes, again, im not saying indian pharma is fake, rather from what ive seen in HCG is VERY underdosed..
it is not cheap to test, purity i think 300-500 USD for peptides but a full QC test panel is in the thousands...these are frequently faked by china as you probably know. remember even branded ozempic has been faked and foundin legit supply chains in the USA (as less federal oversite compared to canada for example) now think of what happens in china india or mexico...
peptides are not like other compounds, slight twisting of the amino bonds CAN change how it interacts with our bodies even though mass is the same. analogy would be like isomers of the same drug, same mass, but different potency. heck even Carbon isnt carbon, and plants will use varying % of isotopes of carbon or iron as even at the most basic elemental levels there is differences. so we could test something and say we are giving a plant 100% carbon however if (in theory) we feed them harder to 'metabolize' form they wont grow aswell.
yes most drugs are made in china.. there is of course a difference in quality and purity etc. these often change batch to batch ESP as many of them are not GMP certified. not all chinese is bad, I agree. It is however a large leap to say "most drugs come from china therefore 99% are good to go" heck even first world manufacturing has issues which of course we hear about more as have stricter laws/less corruption..
one also needs to consider there is a very big difference from PURITY testing or DOSAGE testing to a FULL quality control testing of endotoxins heavy metals other impurities that may be active.. a recent example would be peptides from china, they were discovered to be contaminated with ~400mcg of semaglutide, HOWEVER, purity was still over 97%..
all on the same team here man, everyone has varying risk tolerance, the most important thing, and basis of my rants is that we need to be educated on the topic. and as it relates to HCG or other peptides from compounders at least, we should understand why gov doesnt want essentially UGL quality untrackable biologics sold to americans as impossible to gather data on. ie if people on BPC get cancer more, no way to monitor the safety esp since no phase 3 studies.
And for 'compounded' HCG while likely fine, there is no actual studies done on that manufacturer to actually determine IU as IU is not a mg. 1iu of pregnyl doesnt have same mass(mg) as 1iu of otriville ...which of course causes further issues conducting phase 4 post marketing data for safety. so from a regulatory stand point i do get why gov is doing it.
unfortunate that price is going up because of SOO much demand and that the big pharma brands do have an issue with production as most require female urine to manufacture, except otriville alpha of course which is 10X more money per iu compared to pregnyl.
i would also love to see the test results you speak of aswell! onus is on YOU to say its quality no? as of course this board is funded by these sales no?
here is a link to test results of indian pharma HCG 1700IU suppost to be 10,000iu Janoshik Analytical
here is puretig 5000iu test results coming in at ~1000IU. THINK thats the brand reccomended here?? Janoshik Analytical
happy to discount these as just "bad" tests if you can show "good" results? seems overwhelming though that they are underdosed.. I assumed folks had seen that before so glad u asked me to actually dig it up
cant speak to even NORMAL pharma contaminated with "prions" but this came up in a search Prion Proteins And HCG this is why biologics are of concern to FDA..
Deleted member 43589
Well-Known Member
I have to admit those two test don't look so good. We also don't know when it was purchased, was it ReliableRX or some counterfeiter? I did see quite a few in their list of tests that looked much better and some of the HGH and anabolic steroids tested look great. I would be more concerned with this test had someone we know purchased it from ReliableRX and sent it to be tested.
Like I said, we tested quite a few products from ReliableRX and ADC years ago, probably 2007 when we first discovered the pharmacies. They have always been very good with providing good products. No one has seen any need to do further testing. By the way, I see a whole lot of familiar email addresses on that Janoshik site. Even some of the Chinese sources running tests on their products. I also have guys on my UG board that use Janoshik as well as a couple of other companies.
Unfortunately the onus is not on me. I am a long time customer and a happy one at that, never had any problem with any medication from over seas. We have all suggested this place as an alternative to being ripped off by big pharma and compound pharmacies. I have not seen one complaint, other than you. Like I said, if you have a place that can beat prices and purity, please drop the link and there will be guys jumping all over it. We are all tired of the excuses American pharma gives us for prices being so high. Seems to be the trend.....more demand means higher prices. While some of our retailers believe more demand means keeping the prices low and earning more profit through more sales. Americans pay more for medications than any country in the world yet most of our pharma products come from the same place. Now, I did get some pharma test cyp a year ago from CVS, then the FDA sent a recall on the product, sediment seen floating in the vials. WOW, I have never seen sediment floating in even UG products. They all know how to filter properly. Your chances buying American products are pretty risky too.
While I don't represent ReliableRX and could care a less if they make money, I think everyone on here that has bought products from them had a good experience and has no complaints about the products. I guess the bottom line for me is I would rather take my chance paying $15 to get an under dosed product that I would to pay $360 and get the same under dosed product. Big pharma and compounding pharmacies have pushed customers to making these decision with excuses for ridiculous prices.
By the way, Novarel manufactures 100% of the HCG sold at ReliableRx. Do you know who owns this product?
Ferring Pharmaceuticals Inc.
Parsippany, NJ 07054
U.S. License No. 2112
You can go right down to CVS and pay $271 for the same Novarel product you can buy in India for $15. Think the quality is any different when the same product made so cheaply in India is being sold here in America at a much higher price?
But like Pfizer and most other American pharmas they do have locations in India, oh, and China too, Huatuo Road and Huiling Road Intersection East 100 Mi, Zhongshan, Guangdong
ferring.in
Here is another place in the USA that does testing: MZ BIOLABS
Do Indian drug manufacturers get FDA inspection like USA manufactures? Absolutely
Like I said, we tested quite a few products from ReliableRX and ADC years ago, probably 2007 when we first discovered the pharmacies. They have always been very good with providing good products. No one has seen any need to do further testing. By the way, I see a whole lot of familiar email addresses on that Janoshik site. Even some of the Chinese sources running tests on their products. I also have guys on my UG board that use Janoshik as well as a couple of other companies.
Unfortunately the onus is not on me. I am a long time customer and a happy one at that, never had any problem with any medication from over seas. We have all suggested this place as an alternative to being ripped off by big pharma and compound pharmacies. I have not seen one complaint, other than you. Like I said, if you have a place that can beat prices and purity, please drop the link and there will be guys jumping all over it. We are all tired of the excuses American pharma gives us for prices being so high. Seems to be the trend.....more demand means higher prices. While some of our retailers believe more demand means keeping the prices low and earning more profit through more sales. Americans pay more for medications than any country in the world yet most of our pharma products come from the same place. Now, I did get some pharma test cyp a year ago from CVS, then the FDA sent a recall on the product, sediment seen floating in the vials. WOW, I have never seen sediment floating in even UG products. They all know how to filter properly. Your chances buying American products are pretty risky too.
While I don't represent ReliableRX and could care a less if they make money, I think everyone on here that has bought products from them had a good experience and has no complaints about the products. I guess the bottom line for me is I would rather take my chance paying $15 to get an under dosed product that I would to pay $360 and get the same under dosed product. Big pharma and compounding pharmacies have pushed customers to making these decision with excuses for ridiculous prices.
By the way, Novarel manufactures 100% of the HCG sold at ReliableRx. Do you know who owns this product?
Ferring Pharmaceuticals Inc.
Parsippany, NJ 07054
U.S. License No. 2112
You can go right down to CVS and pay $271 for the same Novarel product you can buy in India for $15. Think the quality is any different when the same product made so cheaply in India is being sold here in America at a much higher price?
But like Pfizer and most other American pharmas they do have locations in India, oh, and China too, Huatuo Road and Huiling Road Intersection East 100 Mi, Zhongshan, Guangdong
Home - Ferring India
ferring.in
Here is another place in the USA that does testing: MZ BIOLABS
Do Indian drug manufacturers get FDA inspection like USA manufactures? Absolutely
The FDA India Office has allowed us to collaborate more effectively with Indian regulatory counterparts and enables us to leverage our combined resources, ensure standards consistency and increase regulatory capacity, which includes information sharing, exchange programmes and specialty training. Through our India Office, the FDA also works to ensure Indian manufacturers shipping to the United States understand the risks associated with their product's processes and they remain compliant with FDA regulations.
The FDA also conducts outreach in India through presentations in meetings and conferences, to discuss and explain the GMP requirements, the latest policies, and the agency’s expectations.
So expectation in India seem to be the same as in the USA. By the way, since you say compounding pharmacies don't make peptides, then where do they get the ones the sell for 10x what they are worth?
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yup not saying MOST drugs from india are underdosed just speaking on HCG.. very different things peptide vs ED meds. glad we can agree it needs to be tested esp from reliable RX before we should recommend it to guys low on cash or trying to conceive.
yes super hard to know if its better just to get cheap china HCG or indian pharma.. whats better, hard to know and hard to even really find out outside of extensive QC testing as things vary batch to batch.
Ferring sells PEE based HCG in america, i was under the assumption indian stuff was recombinant no? (or is it just mostly? as doesnt say on the label what it is) ie are we sure its actually the same as novarel? couldnt find that on the website your recommended either?
compounding pharmacies get them from china yes, no way to know as no tracking.. thats the point im saying its a racket as folks assume compounders are actually manufacturing API..
you need to seperate FDA approved pharma places in india and indian pharma as some indian pharma is basically UGL and def no way to look up on FDA website and track batches etc. yes india has capability to make best of the best but cant lump everything together just because possible. if can get legit (not faked) phizer etc from india then great chance its very very if not exact same as USA phizer product. just because SOME places work with fda its a VERY far reach to assume even most esp grey area sellers out of country. this is often called "export quality" and skirts rules even within shady indian rules ie they dont care if are selling not within india.
i think your confusing the difference between possible great quality brand name stuff vs semi grey area indian brands. very different things. yes you can get great quality from india or china, like seinheiser headphones from china vs 2$ gas station made in china headphones.
since 2007 much has changed in global pharma/online pharmacies fakes replicas etc etc. esp when evidence is suggesting the random stuff they were putting in "IVM" and selling to USA.. they tested like 15 brands out of india most had other API in the pills. and that was just IVM.. it was published literature aswell.. folks dont know what else is in pills esp if tests at MZ labs, they dont ID contamination, but will give a dosage of whats mostly in there..
just hoping to do a little harm reduction and make sure folks are educated. if only getting ~1200 iu for 15 dollars plus shipping to get 10,000IU your not really saving much imo pregnyl here is 90 bucks ferring was 180 or so though for 10,000.. so 8-10X 15 bucks is same price (~120-150 USD$) esp with shipping and not really being able to KNOW ur dosage may be worth extra few bucks or infact may be cheaper domestic per iu once consider the test results... hopefully now some folks who are buying in bulk will consider testing to see if actually getting a good deal
yes super hard to know if its better just to get cheap china HCG or indian pharma.. whats better, hard to know and hard to even really find out outside of extensive QC testing as things vary batch to batch.
Ferring sells PEE based HCG in america, i was under the assumption indian stuff was recombinant no? (or is it just mostly? as doesnt say on the label what it is) ie are we sure its actually the same as novarel? couldnt find that on the website your recommended either?
compounding pharmacies get them from china yes, no way to know as no tracking.. thats the point im saying its a racket as folks assume compounders are actually manufacturing API..
you need to seperate FDA approved pharma places in india and indian pharma as some indian pharma is basically UGL and def no way to look up on FDA website and track batches etc. yes india has capability to make best of the best but cant lump everything together just because possible. if can get legit (not faked) phizer etc from india then great chance its very very if not exact same as USA phizer product. just because SOME places work with fda its a VERY far reach to assume even most esp grey area sellers out of country. this is often called "export quality" and skirts rules even within shady indian rules
ie they dont care if are selling not within india.i think your confusing the difference between possible great quality brand name stuff vs semi grey area indian brands. very different things. yes you can get great quality from india or china, like seinheiser headphones from china vs 2$ gas station made in china headphones.
since 2007 much has changed in global pharma/online pharmacies fakes replicas etc etc. esp when evidence is suggesting the random stuff they were putting in "IVM" and selling to USA.. they tested like 15 brands out of india most had other API in the pills. and that was just IVM.. it was published literature aswell.. folks dont know what else is in pills esp if tests at MZ labs, they dont ID contamination, but will give a dosage of whats mostly in there..
just hoping to do a little harm reduction and make sure folks are educated. if only getting ~1200 iu for 15 dollars plus shipping to get 10,000IU your not really saving much imo pregnyl here is 90 bucks ferring was 180 or so though for 10,000.. so 8-10X 15 bucks is same price (~120-150 USD$) esp with shipping and not really being able to KNOW ur dosage may be worth extra few bucks or infact may be cheaper domestic per iu once consider the test results... hopefully now some folks who are buying in bulk will consider testing to see if actually getting a good deal
Deleted member 43589
Well-Known Member
Thank for all this information. I just ordered more HCG from ReliableRx Honestly I don't care what anyone else does as I have been a customer for I guess, 19 years. My feelings is HCG coming from your families compound pharmacy also needs to be tested. But as you see, unless you are selling bulk quantities of this stuff it is not very practice. So for the rest of us, we will continue to shell out our $15 and hope we are getting what we paid for. But I am sure we will all agree that it is much less painful to shell out $15 than it is to shell out $350 and get the same product, good or bad. Of course you are free to spend you money any way you want.
From reading your postings you information seems to be exactly what the FDA keeps telling over and over "Don't buy overseas medications, they could be bad." Yet they oversea most all of these labs because US companies own them. I have bought medications from Argentina, Brazil, Mexico and most of Europe, the only difference is price. Paying more for a product does not mean it is better and certainly getting the product from and American company does not guarantee purity either. I guy I know use to sell Brovel Testosterone Enanthate. It was very popular in America from a long time and came right over the border, a Vet product. He tested samples from every big batch he bought and most all of them were slightly over dose. Never a bad product. Of course it was also dirt cheap. This old propaganda that the only good drugs are being made in America is just that, propaganda. Keep Americans spending more than anyone else in the world for the same medications and pharma makes huge profits while subsidizing the rest of the world.
India is the king of generic drugs because the Indian government does not recognize patents. Patents are what keeps insulin which was 1st patented in 1921 such an expensive drug. It is owned by 3 companies and they keep slightly changing the patent to keep it from ever being generic. So a cheap inexpensive drug is now so expensive many diabetic have to make the choice between eating and having insulin. I am surprised place like China and India have not gotten into this market. When I see the prices some of our pharmacies are charging for testosterone, and HCG is makes me angry. I know well what the prices are for raw products and pharmaceutical companies and compound pharmacies are making a fortune of guys who need TRT. My guy in China who is a biochemist and employed in a lab sells HCG 5000iu/vial*10vials/kit $10, come out to $10/5000iu. Of course large quantities are much less expensive. We have tested almost everything he sells and never a bad product. You are selling wolf tickets and I am not sure anyone is buying. So far I am the only one replying to you. We are educated educated enough to quit getting ripped off by American companies. Just imagine all the cheap shady thing going on with big pharma....even selling vaccines that never go through clinical trials. Putting pressure on companies that sell generic products that hurt their sells. I could go on and on.
From reading your postings you information seems to be exactly what the FDA keeps telling over and over "Don't buy overseas medications, they could be bad." Yet they oversea most all of these labs because US companies own them. I have bought medications from Argentina, Brazil, Mexico and most of Europe, the only difference is price. Paying more for a product does not mean it is better and certainly getting the product from and American company does not guarantee purity either. I guy I know use to sell Brovel Testosterone Enanthate. It was very popular in America from a long time and came right over the border, a Vet product. He tested samples from every big batch he bought and most all of them were slightly over dose. Never a bad product. Of course it was also dirt cheap. This old propaganda that the only good drugs are being made in America is just that, propaganda. Keep Americans spending more than anyone else in the world for the same medications and pharma makes huge profits while subsidizing the rest of the world.
India is the king of generic drugs because the Indian government does not recognize patents. Patents are what keeps insulin which was 1st patented in 1921 such an expensive drug. It is owned by 3 companies and they keep slightly changing the patent to keep it from ever being generic. So a cheap inexpensive drug is now so expensive many diabetic have to make the choice between eating and having insulin. I am surprised place like China and India have not gotten into this market. When I see the prices some of our pharmacies are charging for testosterone, and HCG is makes me angry. I know well what the prices are for raw products and pharmaceutical companies and compound pharmacies are making a fortune of guys who need TRT. My guy in China who is a biochemist and employed in a lab sells HCG 5000iu/vial*10vials/kit $10, come out to $10/5000iu. Of course large quantities are much less expensive. We have tested almost everything he sells and never a bad product. You are selling wolf tickets and I am not sure anyone is buying. So far I am the only one replying to you. We are educated educated enough to quit getting ripped off by American companies. Just imagine all the cheap shady thing going on with big pharma....even selling vaccines that never go through clinical trials. Putting pressure on companies that sell generic products that hurt their sells. I could go on and on.
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t_spacemonkey
Well-Known Member
valid concerns. the 10k IU hcg showing as 1700 - how do you know this is supposed to be 10k, batch number?compounding pharmacies dont have HPLC NOR do they produce peptides lol. i think that was part of my point. compounding pharmacies do not manufacture rather resell products they order from china. they skirt rules and JUST like supplement companies get a QC paper from china saying its all good when in reality may be contaminated or lesser purity. also HCG and anything with IU after dosage is actually a mixture of several forms, just FYI.. but I do get ur point and it aiming as a dig was a little silly IMO. just wanted to shed light on what compounding REALLY is as seems folks are bit confused, thinking they manufacture drugs for example. heck tylenol gets bad batches from time to time, but they are able to recall and have higher standards than many compounding pharmacies. yes some are much better then others esp when comes to sterile room SOPs etc.
recombinant peptides remember use alot of solvents and ecoli some have varying amounts of left over ecoli puke/endotoxins... a little may be harmless but we have NO idea levels of those when come from chinese and no batch number or tracking..
ok i will dig up the test results of some indian HCG no worries. yes, again, im not saying indian pharma is fake, rather from what ive seen in HCG is VERY underdosed..
it is not cheap to test, purity i think 300-500 USD for peptides but a full QC test panel is in the thousands...these are frequently faked by china as you probably know. remember even branded ozempic has been faked and foundin legit supply chains in the USA (as less federal oversite compared to canada for example) now think of what happens in china india or mexico...
peptides are not like other compounds, slight twisting of the amino bonds CAN change how it interacts with our bodies even though mass is the same. analogy would be like isomers of the same drug, same mass, but different potency. heck even Carbon isnt carbon, and plants will use varying % of isotopes of carbon or iron as even at the most basic elemental levels there is differences. so we could test something and say we are giving a plant 100% carbon however if (in theory) we feed them harder to 'metabolize' form they wont grow aswell.
yes most drugs are made in china.. there is of course a difference in quality and purity etc. these often change batch to batch ESP as many of them are not GMP certified. not all chinese is bad, I agree. It is however a large leap to say "most drugs come from china therefore 99% are good to go" heck even first world manufacturing has issues which of course we hear about more as have stricter laws/less corruption..
one also needs to consider there is a very big difference from PURITY testing or DOSAGE testing to a FULL quality control testing of endotoxins heavy metals other impurities that may be active.. a recent example would be peptides from china, they were discovered to be contaminated with ~400mcg of semaglutide, HOWEVER, purity was still over 97%..
all on the same team here man, everyone has varying risk tolerance, the most important thing, and basis of my rants is that we need to be educated on the topic. and as it relates to HCG or other peptides from compounders at least, we should understand why gov doesnt want essentially UGL quality untrackable biologics sold to americans as impossible to gather data on. ie if people on BPC get cancer more, no way to monitor the safety esp since no phase 3 studies.
And for 'compounded' HCG while likely fine, there is no actual studies done on that manufacturer to actually determine IU as IU is not a mg. 1iu of pregnyl doesnt have same mass(mg) as 1iu of otriville ...which of course causes further issues conducting phase 4 post marketing data for safety. so from a regulatory stand point i do get why gov is doing it.
unfortunate that price is going up because of SOO much demand and that the big pharma brands do have an issue with production as most require female urine to manufacture, except otriville alpha of course which is 10X more money per iu compared to pregnyl.
i would also love to see the test results you speak of aswell! onus is on YOU to say its quality no? as of course this board is funded by these sales no?
here is a link to test results of indian pharma HCG 1700IU suppost to be 10,000iu Janoshik Analytical
here is puretig 5000iu test results coming in at ~1000IU. THINK thats the brand reccomended here?? Janoshik Analytical
happy to discount these as just "bad" tests if you can show "good" results? seems overwhelming though that they are underdosed.. I assumed folks had seen that before so glad u asked me to actually dig it up
cant speak to even NORMAL pharma contaminated with "prions" but this came up in a search Prion Proteins And HCG this is why biologics are of concern to FDA..
it all comes down to the question who can be trusted. you talk a lot about fda/gov, but statements like 'they are concerned about our health' are somewhat hard to believe. not wanting to open a can of worms here, but take even generic drugs sold in the usa for ex. there is such huge discrepancies in quality, it is mind boggling. just look up a random drug review on drugs.com and look how many people complain 'that drug worked until they changed the generic from ABC to XYZ. i had personal experiences with drugs in the past, where for ex. 1 generic maker - produced amazing results, and another close to nothing.
I think the best shot we have, is a) anecdotes, reports from people b) independent labs like Janoshik are also great. those cost some money unfortunetaly, but it would be great to send couple batches of pregnyl/zyhcg etc and have the results posted. maybe someone has enough time on their hands to do some sort of crowdfunding and test various compounds, peptides, hcg etc....and rate all of it. would be a success for sure
because they only make 10,000 iu.. even if was suppost to be 5,000iu thats a very bad test no?
sure some things may be "wolf tickets" but repeated testing always showing underdosing mostly severally, isnt much of a wolf ticket is it?
not sure why folks are defending indian pharma so much.. never be married to your ideas or world view. its important to question things
AGAIN from the tests of indian pharma HCG currently available you are paying 0.01$ per 1iu... if buy pregnyl for 80$ you are paying .008$ per iu... simply put you are not getting a deal. even if your paying 200$ for pregnyl your at .02$ per iu.. so is it worth paying double to know dosage? never have to worry seizure? IF was 10x cheaper i could see but saving 50% and not knowing if have 5000iu, 1000iu or 9000iu in ur bottle isnt worth it IMO.. at very least one should test there own knowing this underdosing is very much a common thing. as currently appears at least to empirical data we have that your getting what you pay for. again, remember there is a difference between "american health" brand sold overseas from india vs domestic sold products in licensed pharmacies/hospital. heck even THEN india is so corrupt hospitals rip people off, from indian friends they say its super shitty and you really cant be a sucker in india as will go broke. upsell all kinds of treatments you dont need and tell you to stay 3X as long as you need to in hospitals and got really bad during covid was word on the street in india at least. capitalism at its finest! you want to buy getting extra healthy? india will sell it too you straight from the Drs expert opinion!
also seems like folks are throwing baby with bathwater, if america has had an issue with dosing therefore its the same as bad dosing from unregulated indian grey market products? the RATE is much different, again speaking more about HCG here but yes many drugs from india have found to other drugs with the drugs that are suppost to be in there. cheap ED pills not a big deal but what about cancer drugs?
when you read reviews on drugs.com you have to remember a few things. 1 placebo is ULTRA powerful, possibly some of the most potent drugs ever. marketing works. 2. sometimes there is differences in generic, name brand may have different ratio of isomers or dosed higher and generic may be ~10% less dosage if not more if name brand is overdosed...3. combinations of the 2.. 4. Do you think big pharma share holders may write fake reviews online so people buy viagra vs blue chew??
But i agree folks get ripped off on pharma and perfectly reasonable to save $, if taking indian HCG regularly for years it would be smart to have it tested though as if dosed correctly your still WAAAY far ahead. or if happy to get 1/8 dosage (or more or less) and works fine for you thats fine aswell. as pregnyl wont last that long taking similar dosages i guess.
Interesting i feel like im getting criticism for bringing up tangible evidence of severe underdosing of HCG from india.. should say yes your right thats a problem lets ask the forum who is making money off of us pitch in for the testing the product they are selling? or the company offer to pay for testing by a random person in order to stay a sponsor of the forum and get business by selling known underdosed product?
what do you guys think? get forum owner to contact reliable rx and have them pitch in for testing of HCG? who knows right, possible even put clomid in the hcg, when testing for peptides a tech may not even pay attention to the excipients as using the 'peptide standard' for the testing and would need to be rerun in order to ID other API.. esp IF infact most indian HCG are underdosed so severly yet folks got plumper balls on 1/8 -1/10 the dose.. thats more concerning, esp if recombinant HCG. you would get plumper balls from clomid a little of the extra from low dose HCG sensitivity/orgasim, elevated E and T levels as one would expect clomid also used for female infertility. SUPER cheap and much cheaper than HCG and wouldnt show up on peptide testing, water soluble esp if add extra solvents like BA in the provided water...perfect crime.. lol (agree bit of a wolf ticket, but wouldnt be first time indian pharma put extra drugs) anyway, point is should do some more in depth random testing and at least dosage purity testing ideally from 2 seperate labs whoever the people trust/want... ETHICALLY for a healthcare based forum we should ask for at least SOME oversite/scrutiny of vendors or a portion of proceeds go to a testing pool? This of course is justified by seeing very poor test results of the exact same brands provided by the vendor.. IMO at least. and i get why folks naturally want to push back when have been using for years(and potentially paying same or even more per iu esp if used indian HCG when american HCG was cheaper), but at the end of the day we are on the same page.
sure some things may be "wolf tickets" but repeated testing always showing underdosing mostly severally, isnt much of a wolf ticket is it?
not sure why folks are defending indian pharma so much.. never be married to your ideas or world view. its important to question things
AGAIN from the tests of indian pharma HCG currently available you are paying 0.01$ per 1iu... if buy pregnyl for 80$ you are paying .008$ per iu... simply put you are not getting a deal. even if your paying 200$ for pregnyl your at .02$ per iu.. so is it worth paying double to know dosage? never have to worry seizure? IF was 10x cheaper i could see but saving 50% and not knowing if have 5000iu, 1000iu or 9000iu in ur bottle isnt worth it IMO.. at very least one should test there own knowing this underdosing is very much a common thing. as currently appears at least to empirical data we have that your getting what you pay for. again, remember there is a difference between "american health" brand sold overseas from india vs domestic sold products in licensed pharmacies/hospital. heck even THEN india is so corrupt hospitals rip people off, from indian friends they say its super shitty and you really cant be a sucker in india as will go broke. upsell all kinds of treatments you dont need and tell you to stay 3X as long as you need to in hospitals and got really bad during covid was word on the street in india at least. capitalism at its finest! you want to buy getting extra healthy? india will sell it too you straight from the Drs expert opinion!
also seems like folks are throwing baby with bathwater, if america has had an issue with dosing therefore its the same as bad dosing from unregulated indian grey market products? the RATE is much different, again speaking more about HCG here but yes many drugs from india have found to other drugs with the drugs that are suppost to be in there. cheap ED pills not a big deal but what about cancer drugs?
when you read reviews on drugs.com you have to remember a few things. 1 placebo is ULTRA powerful, possibly some of the most potent drugs ever. marketing works. 2. sometimes there is differences in generic, name brand may have different ratio of isomers or dosed higher and generic may be ~10% less dosage if not more if name brand is overdosed...3. combinations of the 2.. 4. Do you think big pharma share holders may write fake reviews online so people buy viagra vs blue chew??
But i agree folks get ripped off on pharma and perfectly reasonable to save $, if taking indian HCG regularly for years it would be smart to have it tested though as if dosed correctly your still WAAAY far ahead. or if happy to get 1/8 dosage (or more or less) and works fine for you thats fine aswell. as pregnyl wont last that long taking similar dosages i guess.
Interesting i feel like im getting criticism for bringing up tangible evidence of severe underdosing of HCG from india.. should say yes your right thats a problem lets ask the forum who is making money off of us pitch in for the testing the product they are selling? or the company offer to pay for testing by a random person in order to stay a sponsor of the forum and get business by selling known underdosed product?
what do you guys think? get forum owner to contact reliable rx and have them pitch in for testing of HCG? who knows right, possible even put clomid in the hcg, when testing for peptides a tech may not even pay attention to the excipients as using the 'peptide standard' for the testing and would need to be rerun in order to ID other API.. esp IF infact most indian HCG are underdosed so severly yet folks got plumper balls on 1/8 -1/10 the dose.. thats more concerning, esp if recombinant HCG. you would get plumper balls from clomid a little of the extra from low dose HCG sensitivity/orgasim, elevated E and T levels as one would expect clomid also used for female infertility. SUPER cheap and much cheaper than HCG and wouldnt show up on peptide testing, water soluble esp if add extra solvents like BA in the provided water...perfect crime.. lol (agree bit of a wolf ticket, but wouldnt be first time indian pharma put extra drugs) anyway, point is should do some more in depth random testing and at least dosage purity testing ideally from 2 seperate labs whoever the people trust/want... ETHICALLY for a healthcare based forum we should ask for at least SOME oversite/scrutiny of vendors or a portion of proceeds go to a testing pool? This of course is justified by seeing very poor test results of the exact same brands provided by the vendor.. IMO at least. and i get why folks naturally want to push back when have been using for years(and potentially paying same or even more per iu esp if used indian HCG when american HCG was cheaper), but at the end of the day we are on the same page.
t_spacemonkey
Well-Known Member
i agree, that 1700 at 10k is really bad. no doubt. that would throw major questions for anyone who uses them. but they do sell 2,5,10k: Buy HCG Injections Online US | Buy HCG Infertility Treatment Online - ReliableRx Pharmacy
so 1700 at 2 would be not ideal, but acceptable. talking only about zyhcg. it is made by an indian company called german remedies, but there is not a whole lot to find about them. you can also buy slightly more expensive (28usd) Sifasi brand made by serum institute and they definitely do seem to have a large presence.
i feel very tempted to send some stuff to Janoshik and see what is going on. but tbh i'd also like to see a lab result from pregnyl to compare to.
so 1700 at 2 would be not ideal, but acceptable. talking only about zyhcg. it is made by an indian company called german remedies, but there is not a whole lot to find about them. you can also buy slightly more expensive (28usd) Sifasi brand made by serum institute and they definitely do seem to have a large presence.
i feel very tempted to send some stuff to Janoshik and see what is going on. but tbh i'd also like to see a lab result from pregnyl to compare to.
yes FDA has faults, but it is ALOT better than 90-95% of the worlds gov oversite. some more liberal countries are better, france norway etc as do a better job keeping chemicals out of food at least, and get more nutritious food. Think of the conservative countries like china or india/mexico, lol you want to trust their gov FDA equivalent more or even similar level? USA FDA could be better, but 50% being conservative purist capitalists makes it harder.. more liberal countries actually have more economic mobility ie american dream from rags to riches than USA now adays which is pretty crazy.. anyway, off topic, just one of those things folks need to ask themselves. do you want to live in conservative poland?or more liberal germany portugal etc. live in conservative brazil/guatamala/mexico or progressive liberal costa rica or chili? in canada conservative gov drop spending on testing environment for toxins all science, heck even conservative provinces block feds from testing water for pollution levels lol.. pretty wild. not like its some political thing like Co2. just straight up no you will not test our water to help get an idea if chemicals are giving people cancer killing wildlife etc etc. no data=no problem the conservative way lol. anyway dont want to make it political, both ends of political spectrum offer benefits and pitfalls.
at any rate yes obv need to be testing indian HCG before saying its "gtg" with any certainty, FEELS while valuable, isn't a great measure. Nice boxes and labels go a long way for FEELS..
seems like may guys use indian HCG here so shouldnt be too tuff to gather some funds up. i don't use HCG, just basically doing a PSA. I say funds from coupon codes should be donated in light of new data of poor test results... only ethical IMO esp when associating with a medical clinic, and not super fair for people to pay to confirm indian HCG is good so the company can make MORE money/credibility.
jacb
Active Member
You may be interested to hear what SwissChems have to say on their website:
“We are continuously conducting HPLC test on all of our raw powders as well as finished products to ensure the quality of our products. You can have the product you bought from us tested at any HPLC licensed testing facility and if the results are negative, we will refund the following:
HPLC Test ($100) + Total amount of the order + shipping.”
“We are continuously conducting HPLC test on all of our raw powders as well as finished products to ensure the quality of our products. You can have the product you bought from us tested at any HPLC licensed testing facility and if the results are negative, we will refund the following:
HPLC Test ($100) + Total amount of the order + shipping.”
Deleted member 43589
Well-Known Member
This place is in the USA and is actually less expensive
Here is another place in the USA that does testing: MZ BIOLABS
I think this is a good idea for guys that have the extra money to spend to get some of these products tested. Myself, I don't buy large quantities and not selling this stuff. In fact, 2000iu or 5000iu is the most I will buy. Most all of the bodybuilders I know are buying HCG from ReliableRX and happy with it. Reliable has kind of put the independent guys out of business since there is little profit in selling it. If I was sourcing HCG is would sure have it tested but sourcing HCG is like sourcing bacteriostatic water, just no money. I usually buy 3 vials of 5000iu at a time and have been good with what I got all these years. Used Pregnyl back in the past when it was easy and cheap to get and I see no difference in the two. Like I said, the guys on my board have done extensive testing over the years we have been in existence. I know HCG was tested from Reliable maybe in 2007 and I am still trying to find the results in our archives. It might have even been DatBTrue's board. Dat is the one who turned me on to ADC and Reliable. Most of what we test are batches of raw anabolics and HGH. My thing with that particular test is we know nothing about it. We don't know where it came from and have no idea at all if it even came from ReliableRX. We use to test Hygetropin HGH a while back and found most of them were 11iu per vial which was very good stuff. After a year or so the counterfeiters set in and started selling a totally worthless, fake product. The company had to put holographic images on the box seal and started allowing buyers to check their lot numbers to see if it was real. We even saw boxes of 10 where the two vials in the middle front were real and the rest were crap.
I would say if anyone is concerned about purchasing this stuff save your money and spend it in a compounding pharmacy or at CVS. I am certainly not rich but $15 is not going to break me. Maybe a fund could be set up and used to periodically test products? We certainly have enough guys here and certainly spend a whole lot of money on these types of products.
This of course is speaking about drugs sold WITHIN canada made elsewhere. not foregin purchases of grey market "export" quality drugs from india china with no real tracking of post marketing data. be careful not to lump these separate things together, VERY VERY different things. things aren't perfect in canada or USA but FAR FAR better than 3rd world, infact some mexican friends love when i bring them the same brand name creams shampoos they can get in mexico but they feel canadian stuff is better...many of our pharmaceuticals come from places like India and China
Most of our prescription drugs are manufactured overseas — but are they safe? - PMC
this also furthers the point of how even less oversite for compounding pharmacies and why they are cracking down in USA.. ie a compounder could order from china and get fake QC documents, sell a tainted product, no one would know, and even if they did find out who is in the wrong? and what could even be done to the chineses who faked the tests/stamp? the tech/receptionist who placed the order from "legit" looking place? again this happens even with name brand drugs in the USA ie fake ozempic sold at pharmacies, fake 3m medical equipment even found in USA hospitals. hard enough to figure out an ecoli outbreak on strawberries, nevermind thousand of pharmacies making small batches sourcing from who knows where (yes many have buying groups, but many of course order elsewhere)..
YES PLEASE POST UP RESULTS OF HCG FROM YOUR BOARD!!! things apparently dropped off after 2021 so hopefully tests after that! things change and things have changed ALOT since 2007 nevermind after 2020... IF can find an HCG test of india pharma brand post 2020 that is actually within 15% even 20% of label that would be AWESOME! hit up your board and see if anyone has tests in the last 4 years!
hopefully MZ labs is upping there game, last time i talked to them there methods were a little sub par as far as peptides and didnt have a validated method with proper standards.. not meaning they are trash just less optimal as far as actually determining dosage...
hopefully MZ labs is upping there game, last time i talked to them there methods were a little sub par as far as peptides and didnt have a validated method with proper standards.. not meaning they are trash just less optimal as far as actually determining dosage...
Deleted member 43589
Well-Known Member
Again, you are posting information that I am sure we are all aware of. We can't test every drug we use, it is impractical and most of us can't keep paying more and more form medications. We are at the mercy of our pharmacies, doctors and the FDA. I have already posted several of my hospital ad doctor experiences in the past 3 years. I am in Houston where we take pride in having the world largest medical center. We have some very good doctors and also some very big scams going on. Every week I see where a so called doctor got busted practicing medicine with no license.
Money is king in any business run and we depend on our supervisory agencies to prevent us from getting injured, sick or just plain old ripped off. Some business have ethics and morals, many do not. The FDA for instance, has so few regulatory enforcement working there they can only go after the worst of the worst. Some of this gets lumped in with the FTC and they are in about the same shape. I trust NO ONE and always have my eyes open. I only deal with businesses that have earned my trust and over my 68 year of being alive I have come out on the losing end many times. I now have a trust worthy doctor, cardiologist and hopefully now orthopedic surgeon. But i still keep my eyes open. I don't trust my insurance company, don't trust CVS but my insurance company makes me purchase long term prescriptions from CVS only. Yea, I see hat is going on here. But I do trust three over seas pharmacies including on in India, one in Hong Kong and one in the EU. I pretty well trust my long time Chinese friend who is a biochemist working in a very large pharmaceutical lab in China. He has hooked me up with Chinese medication that IMHO are better then those I get here. It even impressed the orthopedic medical staff at Memorial Herman hospital. I also have about 4 guys I know domestically who can get what ever I need. Why do I trust these guys, never had a bad experience, and anything I don't like can be sent back and all money refunded. No questions asked.
Reliablerxpharmacy.com Reviews - Trustworthy - PharmReviews.net
Reliablerxpharmacy.com is a pharmacy website that claims that its aim is to offer a safe service to customers that want to purchase pharmaceuticals at affordable prices. No phone number is displayed on this e-commerce drugstore, however, there is a ‘Click to Call’ button where the customer can...
www.pharmreviews.net
This site seems pretty accurate to what I found out about them years ago. There is NO pharmacy address anywhere in India, I have frequently gotten packages originating in Dehli, India. But I have a friend that went there to find them 2 years ago and they are no where to be found. They correctly started selling in 2005 and we got onboard in 2007 and we did have some guy make small purchases and do testing on the products. Of course HCG was one of the test and it seemed to us to be on the up and up. As you can see their web site is offshore and not located inn India, there is no way to find out who really owns thsi business. It is very possible they are avoiding possibly law in India. As long as they keep a good reputation, agencies like INTERPOL and the DEA will not launch a massive investigation so their anonymity is safe. Do I feel safe dealing with this type of business, absolutely. How many American companies are shielded by shell corporations? How much money does Pfizer rake in that is not hidden away in off shore tax free banking systems. Obviously we will never know because so many in government are on the payroll of big pharma.
Business Profile
This pharmaceutical website has been registered through a third-party company called Privacy Hero Inc. This company is located in Grace Bay on the Provindencials Island which is a British Overseas Territory. We were not able to verify who is actually behind this pharmaceutical website, which means that this online drugstore is not following the law 100%. On the ‘About Us’ page, it says that this is an Indian-based pharmaceutical website that was founded in 2005 and claims to have since serviced 100,000 customers. I have talked to Robert who claims to be an employee there for many years. I have discussed things wit him by email and by phone. He definitely has a Indian accent and English is not his 1st language. I have had packages that got lost and products that did not make it and they always did well with me. He even humors me when I complain that they continue to go up on their prices. What is really going on here, I could care a less as long as they do right with me.Of course here is a place you can complain if you feel you have been ripped off by anyone who sells pharmaceutical medications.
MedWatch: FDA Safety Information & Adverse Event Reporting Program
Reporting on prescription/OTC medicines, non-vaccine biologicals, medical devices, special nutritional products, cosmetics and non-prescription human drug.
Walgreens vs Reliable Rx Pharmacy: Side-by-Side Comparison
Compare Walgreens.com vs Reliablerxpharmacy.com to select the best Medications & Treatment Stores for your needs. See the pros and cons of Reliable Rx Pharmacy vs Walgreens based on newsletter coupons, PayPal Pay Later, Apple Pay Later financing, clearance page, and more. Last updated on...
knoji.com
This site does a side by side comparison of ReliableRx vs Walgreens. Very close except for payment methods. Its much harder to pay over seas for medications because credit card companies will not honor the payment if they find out it was for medication. The account will be immediately suspended and all funds frozen. PayPal often times will freeze your account as well as theirs and do an investigation. This is possibly why they have money going to shell corporation that does not list ReliableRx. Because they do accept credit cards but warn you not to mention their name or what you are purchasing.
yup def dont have to test all your drugs but is smart if getting HCG or other expensive drug from grey market to periodically have them checked.. thats all..
also because this forum makes money off of your HCG purhases they should kick in or at least have SOME responsibility when BY ALL EVIDENCE TO DATE is SEVERELY underdosed. and as i demonstrated is no cheaper than domestic pharma iu to IU..
Not sure what the issue here is.. we have solid repeated evidence indian pharma HCG is underdosed. so until evidence to contrary should know its VERY likely your INDIAN HCG is 1/8 the dosage it says on the label..
anyway, its fine as long as folks know there HCG is improperly dosed.. IMO its unethical in light of evidence for teh forum owner to promote folks spending hard earned money on such poor product.. now if get a couple tests within 20% of labeled dosing then great.. but there is no disputing current empirical data.
this argument people say "cant test everything" well no but when evidence says one thing should PROBABLY confirm that at very least.
there is no argument, no discussion, it IS underdosed as far as we know. only discussion would be how to go about dispelling that or confirming it. I think forum owners should step in as they are the ones making the money off teh good people here.
if folks are happy with paying just as much per IU for indian pharma of unknown purity or contamination (if soo underdosed god knows what else is going on, in america they actually test shelf stability dosage etc)
Just interesting when folks world view gets challenged. have evidence underdosed and every test ive seen shows this. but somehow want to say its still good?? lol happy it works for you but at the very least should be interested in getting to the bottom of why indian HCG consistently is VERY underdosed.
also because this forum makes money off of your HCG purhases they should kick in or at least have SOME responsibility when BY ALL EVIDENCE TO DATE is SEVERELY underdosed. and as i demonstrated is no cheaper than domestic pharma iu to IU..
Not sure what the issue here is.. we have solid repeated evidence indian pharma HCG is underdosed. so until evidence to contrary should know its VERY likely your INDIAN HCG is 1/8 the dosage it says on the label..
anyway, its fine as long as folks know there HCG is improperly dosed.. IMO its unethical in light of evidence for teh forum owner to promote folks spending hard earned money on such poor product.. now if get a couple tests within 20% of labeled dosing then great.. but there is no disputing current empirical data.
this argument people say "cant test everything" well no but when evidence says one thing should PROBABLY confirm that at very least.
there is no argument, no discussion, it IS underdosed as far as we know. only discussion would be how to go about dispelling that or confirming it. I think forum owners should step in as they are the ones making the money off teh good people here.
if folks are happy with paying just as much per IU for indian pharma of unknown purity or contamination (if soo underdosed god knows what else is going on, in america they actually test shelf stability dosage etc)
Just interesting when folks world view gets challenged. have evidence underdosed and every test ive seen shows this. but somehow want to say its still good?? lol happy it works for you but at the very least should be interested in getting to the bottom of why indian HCG consistently is VERY underdosed.
Deleted member 43589
Well-Known Member
I did some asking around to guys I know in the resale business. His shop is definitely not UG as it is easily found on the internet. He is in the business of selling SARMS, research products, nootropics and peptides. This guy buys and resells ReliableRX HCG for $45 a vial and he said he last tested a batch he bought back in August. I know he does reselling of HCG because it was me who set the deal up a few years back. He has no problem selling it at this price either. This guy has been in business about 15 years and always been very trust worthy and reliable. I use to buy products from him but he had logistic issues providing me with the amounts I needed on a consistent basis. I purposely marked out his contact information for security purposes. As you can see the analysis was done at MZ Biolabs in Arizona, which quite a few guys in the business I know use. This is just one batch but the guy does test every year he tells me, he also test the rest of the raw products he uses to make his products. He did say he never has gotten batches that were not tip top products. I'm not sure what he pays by the vial (use to be ~$10/VIAL) but I am sure it is still cheap enough that he doesn't have to go through the Chinese and then put on labels and have boxes made. 99.7% pure is not so shabby. I was given permission to put this up here provided I marked out the contact information.
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