When does natural production return when stopping TRT?

[mg707]

No, I doubt that my urologist is familiar with that. I do wonder if it is worth it. At least with the injections (80mg/2x/week), I can control my testosterone level.

If your protocol is working for you probably best to stick with it given what you went through. What was it like being that low. I remember when I was at 150 I could barely lift my head up my energy was so crashed.

Only reason I’m considering stopping is having difficulty controlling hematocrit even with lower does (40mg 2x per week) and regular blood donations

 

[D0UG]

What does T = 20 feel like?
Awful. No energy, no sex drive, no erections, lack of focus, every tendon & ligament in my body ached, muscle turned to fat, couldn't sleep more than 2 hours, blood triglycerides tripled, depression, etc. Many days I had all the aches and pains like when you have the flu. Every time a doctor asked me how I felt, I said "awful".

After a lot of research, I found that testosterone suppression is no longer recommended by the Cancer Institute for low-grades of prostate cancer which mine was. Doctors continue to do it because that is what they have been doing the last 40 years.

 

[Smokin Joe]

I have posted this several times before about using ashwagandha and cistanche with other supplements to restart trt. I can usually get back to 400 to 450 to in about 4-6 weeks using these herbs.
There is plenty on documentation on the web.
Granted for me nothing feels like exogenous testosterone but I am an off and on guy for trt.

 

[D0UG]

I have read a lot of warnings about ashwagandha interfering with many medicines. I take medicine for blood pressure and thyroid and 2 doctors warned me to never take that supplement. I had not taken it but told them I do take some supplements. That is the only one they were concerned about.

 

[Smokin Joe]

I do agree.
As with any herbal products check with your doc if you take prescription medications.
Though I'm not on any medications I will try to always research herbs before trying them.
Sometimes there will be contraindications amongst them. Better safe than sorry for sure.

 

[Fortunate]

Hot off the press. Here's an example. Was on TRT for 4 years. Came off. Did 4 weeks of hCG (500 IU twice weekly) then waited another 8 weeks. Total Time off TRT 12 weeks.

View attachment 21766

Before I started I was 380-420 ng/dl TT.

Here's a pre-TRT baseline:

View attachment 21767
View attachment 21769
View attachment 21768


On paper recovery about 75% of TT and LH is back to approximate baseline based on this data point. Note the piss poor fT measurement. Was cheap!



You know I love spot check examples (from my baseline results):
fT direct = 13.1 pg/ml / = 1.31 ng/dl
Transform fT direct to ED range = 6.67 * 1.31 = 8.7 ng/dl
cfTV =5.4 ng/dl
Tru-T = 10 ng/dl

I'm back in solid cross hair land of 2nd hypogonadism. Hurray!

But, how do you feel? I imagine not amazing?

 

[Fortunate]

Heart issues (real or perceived?) and panic/anxiety still there. Cardiologist didn't want to do another Echo until maybe winter. We agreed 6-12 months for heart remodelling is reasonable estimate. All the other issues are still there (autoimmune, depression, joint pain, etc) is all there just like prior and during TRT. Human condition I guess, enjoy the ride.

Now here's something funny. All during TRT I never had spontaneous wood. Maybe a little prior to TRT. Up until 2 weeks ago felt nothing down below. Now the last two weeks I wake up with massive wood. Actually had to jump out of bed as I freaked out. It was painful. On nothing else. What am I 14 again? So just goes to show the human body is a funny, wonderful creation. 300 ng/dl and sporting massive wood. Oh well. Different than what you would think watching Youtube where the message is 30-50 ng/dl and you are John Holmes or something.

That's awesome.

Endocrinology, especially sex hormones, can be weird. Some guys feel best at levels that would make others feel hypogonadal.

I saw you are gonna trial Natesto. My advice: try to stick to it. Too many guys bail cause they don't like the feeling in the nose or something. In full disclosure, I am not on it at the moment, but it treated me well for a number of years.

Would love to hear your thoughts after you give it a go!

 

[D0UG]

I never took hCG but my testosterone did not come back after over 6 months so I restarted TRT.

 

[waterbottle1258@tutanota.]

I'm in the process of coming off 6 year self TRT starting at age 25. Nothing negative from my PCT so far. I did around 2 weeks of HCG and then started 25mg clomid. A little 1 month in on the clomid. I'll post bloodwork from clomid after I get results back. I have a feeling I've recovered fine.

When I was 25 I took blood test after a bad nights sleep and got ~450ng/dL. That was with Labcorp's ECLIA method. From now on I'll be doing Quests LC/MS/MS more accurate method to determine total testosterone.

 

[Charlesfitstein]

I have posted this several times before about using ashwagandha and cistanche with other supplements to restart trt. I can usually get back to 400 to 450 to in about 4-6 weeks using these herbs.
There is plenty on documentation on the web.
Granted for me nothing feels like exogenous testosterone but I am an off and on guy for trt.

Just curious, how does ashawaganda directly assist t levels? Is it just a by product of reducing stress keeping cortisol lower for t to be higher?

 

[Charlesfitstein]

I have posted this several times before about using ashwagandha and cistanche with other supplements to restart trt. I can usually get back to 400 to 450 to in about 4-6 weeks using these herbs.
There is plenty on documentation on the web.
Granted for me nothing feels like exogenous testosterone but I am an off and on guy for trt.

Just curious, how does ashawaganda directly assist t levels? Is it just a by product of reducing stress keeping cortisol lower for t to be higher?

 

[MIP1950]

Heart issues (fraction real vs perceived?) and panic/anxiety still there. Cardiologist didn't want to do another Echo until maybe winter. We agreed 6-12 months for heart remodelling is reasonable estimate. All the other issues are still there (autoimmune, depression, joint pain, etc) / is all there just like prior and during TRT. Human condition I guess, enjoy the ride.

Now here's something funny. All during TRT I never had spontaneous wood. Maybe a little prior to TRT. Up until 2 weeks ago felt nothing down below. Now the last two weeks I wake up with massive wood. Actually had to jump out of bed as I freaked out. It was painful. Taking nothing else. What am I 14 again?

So just goes to show the human body is a funny, wonderful creation. 300 ng/dl and sporting massive morning wood. Oh well. Different than what you would think watching Youtube where the message is 30-50 ng/dl fT and you are John Holmes or something.

Whole thing reminds me of old Johnny Cash song:

Well John Henry had a little woman, I believe the lady's name was Polly Ann, yeah that was his good woman, John Henry threw his hammer over his shoulder and went on home, he layed down to rest his weary back and early next morning he said come here Polly Ann come here sugar, ya know I believe this is the first time I ever watched the sun come up that I couldn't come up with it

I've been on and off T since 2013. In 2005, at Kaiser Mid-Atlantic, my total was 325 and free was 45. My erections had been diminishing but, in retrospect, likely due to relapse of bipolar and accompanying poor sleep. From reading various men's health sites I knew those were supposed to be low numbers. Over the years,on injections of varying dosage, I've had my total, at one time, at 1500, free at 500, DHT 75. Libido was insane but erections missing in action. Also gained about 15 pounds around the middle(155 to 170). My weight had been creeping up starting in 2011. I'm 5'5" and wiry. Ideal weight 132.

Last year I was off testosterone for 3 months after 5 months doing moderate dosing(25 mg) 3X weekly IM. I felt much worse off of it(low energy, irritable, worse depression). The only thread I read on here was by @ggenovez who found that the more anastrozole he took, the better he felt and sexually functioned. The other option is to try test prop, again, which I have(rx).

 

[GreenMachineX]

I never took hCG but my testosterone did not come back after over 6 months so I restarted TRT.

How did youfeel during that time off?

 

[waterbottle1258@tutanota.]

6 weeks into clomiphene citrate. Trying to get off after 6 year of TRT. It's been over 2 months since last injection. I don't know if I will recover more

 

[GreenMachineX]

6 weeks into clomiphene citrate. Trying to get off after 6 year of TRT. It's been over 2 months since last injection. I don't know if I will recover more
View attachment 22528

That's interesting. How do you feel though?

 

[waterbottle1258@tutanota.]

That's interesting. How do you feel though?

Feel pretty normal. Sleep and libido aren't the best right now. I think the clomid is to blame

 

[Mastodont]

I have posted this several times before about using ashwagandha and cistanche with other supplements to restart trt. I can usually get back to 400 to 450 to in about 4-6 weeks using these herbs.
There is plenty on documentation on the web.
Granted for me nothing feels like exogenous testosterone but I am an off and on guy for trt.

Hey Joe, how do you take cistanche, pre bedtime i assume, how about dose?

 

[Systemlord]

I think the clomid is to blame

Clomid blocks the ocular nerve which can cause vision issues. Clomid blocks neurotransmitter estrogen receptors which can lead to depression and psychosis.

You're blocking receptors in the heart, liver and the pancreas. The longer you stay on clomid, the worse the side effects will get.

When used for fertility, get in and get out.

 

[Smokin Joe]

Mastodont
I use 200 mg powder extract in my coffee in the morning.
I am currently back using cistanche as my Urologist will not renew my Testosterone prescription with a PSA of 4.5 and a family history of Prostate cancer.
My TT is currently @ 394.
Historically it will come to around 500. We'll see as it seems like the older I get the slower the return.
Biopsy is in the future and I hope it's negative so I adjust fire on my trt.
Hope this helps.

 

[Mastodont]

Mastodont
I use 200 mg powder extract in my coffee in the morning.
I am currently back using cistanche as my Urologist will not renew my Testosterone prescription with a PSA of 4.5 and a family history of Prostate cancer.
My TT is currently @ 394.
Historically it will come to around 500. We'll see as it seems like the older I get the slower the return.
Biopsy is in the future and I hope it's negative so I adjust fire on my trt.
Hope this helps.

Thanks, just got some navi organics cistanche deserticola 10:1 powder from UK, it says take 1g, which sounds like a lot, been taking about 1/4 teaspoon but it's too early to say anything but definitely feel something, had an unusually good little run yesterday and seem to have energy at the gym. Gonna put it in capsules of 500mg once i get the empty caps.