Weird blood test results

[DragonBits]

I often have a few surprises in my blood test results. Today's surprise was estradiol.

I attached the last couple of blood test results, one from 1-7-2020 and one from 11/15/2019.

Today, the surprise was pretty low E2 levels of 8.9 pg/mpwith a Total T of 650. (I tend to do blood test just to monitor PSA since it tends to move up and down more than I like, and often goes over 4.0 up to 4.8, but also drops back down to as low as 3.2.)

I recently started taking 25 mg of DHEA, that certainly explains my high 598.7 ug/dl level, but since i started DHEA I thought I should check my E2. Many men report dhea raising their E2 levels. BUT my levels dropped more than expected with the ratio of total T to E2 conversion the lowest it's ever been.

I don't take an AI, so what does anything think might cause a drop in estradiol to the low of 8.9 pg/ml?

 

[Sean Mosher]

Am I reading that correctly that your Total T also dropped significantly??
From 1067 in November to 650 in January?

 

[xqfq]

One possible explanation is an incorrectly run E2 sensitive test. I know others have written about the unreliability (but accuracy, when reliable) of the E2 sensitive test.

 

[slicktop]

When I started DHEA, Defy told me it was to decrease SHBG. I've never looked deeply into it, but if it does indeed lower SHBG (which it doesn't appear you had tested), I'd postulate that with lower SHBG you're "burning through" both estradiol and testosterone quicker than you used to and could bump up your dosage if you're so inclined.

you may find this of some interest:The effect of six months treatment with a 100 mg daily dose of dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) on circulating sex steroids, body composition and musc... - PubMed - NCBI
"While on DHEA, serum SHBG levels declined with a greater (P < 0.02) response in women (-40 +/- 8%; P = 0.002) than in men (-5 +/- 4%; P = 0.02). Relative to baseline, DHEA administration resulted in an elevation of serum IGF-I levels in men (16 +/- 6%, P = 0.04) and in women (31 +/- 12%, P = 0.02)."

The big question is, how are you feeling at these levels? Any negative symptoms?

 

[DragonBits]

Am I reading that correctly that your Total T also dropped significantly??
From 1067 in November to 650 in January?

That is correct, but typical.

I tested in November 20 days after an injection, in Jan it was 11 weeks after. It is peak vs trough. Nebido tends to peak in about 20 days.

 

[DragonBits]

When I started DHEA, Defy told me it was to decrease SHBG. I've never looked deeply into it, but if it does indeed lower SHBG (which it doesn't appear you had tested), I'd postulate that with lower SHBG you're "burning through" both estradiol and testosterone quicker than you used to and could bump up your dosage if you're so inclined.

you may find this of some interest:The effect of six months treatment with a 100 mg daily dose of dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) on circulating sex steroids, body composition and musc... - PubMed - NCBI
"While on DHEA, serum SHBG levels declined with a greater (P < 0.02) response in women (-40 +/- 8%; P = 0.002) than in men (-5 +/- 4%; P = 0.02). Relative to baseline, DHEA administration resulted in an elevation of serum IGF-I levels in men (16 +/- 6%, P = 0.04) and in women (31 +/- 12%, P = 0.02)."

The big question is, how are you feeling at these levels? Any negative symptoms?

SHBG, possible, but free testosterone is about what I would expect it do be, I look at FT as a percentage of total T, the ratio is about the same.

Symptoms, I feel pretty good and if anything I have more erections. It's not like night and day, but say maybe 30% more.

My blood pressure seemed to have climbed up to 135/80, but my resting heart rate is the lowest it's ever been at 56 bpm, it goes as low as 51 during the night.

 

[fifty]

E2 sensitive is not worth the money and trouble. Just realize that standard e2 may come in slightly high...but at least it’s reliable and repeatable.

Also I don’t get how they say dhea decreases shbg. I thought high shbg was caused by environmental toxins like pesticides, flouride, 2.4ghz wifi, aluminum, and 5G

 

[DragonBits]

E2 sensitive is not worth the money and trouble. Just realize that standard e2 may come in slightly high...but at least it’s reliable and repeatable.

Also I don’t get how they say dhea decreases shbg. I thought high shbg was caused by environmental toxins like pesticides, flouride, 2.4ghz wifi, aluminum, and 5G

I am not gung-ho on the e2 sensitive test, but it's not more expensive than the regular E2 test, likely more accurate, Defy requires it when they want labs, so why not? When buying individual blood tests, it's easier and the same price to get the E2 sensitive test.

The only exception is when buying a panel of test from someone like life extension, the standard E2 test is what they always include in a panel.

The most common negative about DHEA is that it increases E2 in some men, obviously not me, it never has seemed to increase E2 in the past either.

 

[DragonBits]

FWIW, some things that have also changed since November, though I can't see that it should affect E2.

I have been using cannabis (vaping) nightly to aid in sleep, it does work but it does change my sleep pattern. This has been my routine since Jan.

I haven't been using metformin, my blood glucose did rise a bit a few weeks after stopping.

I take a bunch of supplements, most of them say take with a meal with fat. So 3-4 weeks ago I have been making guacamole and take the supplements with a few tablespoons of guacamole after waking up.

I stopped Vit D supplementing in July 2019 when my Vit D level was 90.6 (30-100 range), no doubt my level has fallen steadily since July, my PCP doctor has me scheduled for a vit d test / a1c next week.

 

[Cataceous]

... Nebido tends to peak in about 20 days.

Have you tested closer to your injections to verify this? Other data is showing a peak somewhere in the first week. I'm increasingly convinced that shorter esters like cypionate peak in less than 12 hours.

 

[DragonBits]

Have you tested closer to your injections to verify this? Other data is showing a peak somewhere in the first week. I'm increasingly convinced that shorter esters like cypionate peak in less than 12 hours.

Misleading statement by me, the pharma of nebido does say it peaks in 7-14 days. I was just thinking general high level after injection, not the actual peak. From looking at the pharma chart and my own levels , I would guess my actual peak was 1450 -1600 ng/ml if I tested at 7-14 days.

Though I tend to have higher levels of total T than the charts suggest most men have at 3 weeks, my shbg is between 40-70 and my I weigh 146 lb, so maybe body size or shbg has an influence on the amount of Total T?

After my first Nebido injection in May 2018, I tested at 16 days, it was 1389 total T, E2 was 56, which is 4.05% of total T, but that was the first time I used Nebido after stopping for 3 years. Likely my E2 had a higher conversion ratio the first time since I was maybe still producing T/E2 naturally? Typically E2 is more like 2.3% conversion.

After 10 weeks of post Nebido, I have mixed 2 clicks T cream with Nebido and after 95 days my total T 759 and E2 was 31.4, which is 4.14 % conversion of E2, it would seem like the T-cream + Nebido created more E2 than the Nedido does by itself. Though I haven't done that enough times to really check it, I was interested in how I could extend the period between injections by using the t-cream. The last time I experimented with that combo was July 2019.

My E2 in general under most circumstances is never really high, even with clomid back in 2015 my E2 got to 27.6 (standard E2 test) with a total T of 478 with no other hormones. A high conversion ratio of 5.77%, but that is typical of clomid, and 27.6 isn't really high.

This time it was very unusual to see E2 so low with a reasonable about of Total T and I wondered why?

 

[Cataceous]

...
This time it was very unusual to see E2 so low with a reasonable about of Total T and I wondered why?

Two times now the I've had the sensitive result be half of what it should have been. After that I avoided this test method, except one time to confirm undetectable estradiol. Defy has never objected to my using the standard test.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

I take a bunch of supplements, most of them say take with a meal with fat. So 3-4 weeks ago I have been making guacamole and take the supplements with a few tablespoons of guacamole after waking up.

Taking zinc?

 

[DragonBits]

Taking zinc?

I usually take Viteyes Ared 2 for eye health, it has 12.5 mg of zinc in it. Along with copper, vit c, vit E lutein, zeaxanthin.

 

[DragonBits]

Taking zinc?

I thought of a possibility.

Recently, a month ago, I added Curcumin Elite from LIfe Extnsion.

I had been taking cucumin I mixed with black pepper, but LEF said their Turmeric extract had better bioavailability, so I thought I would give it a try. Mainly I was hoping it would keep my c-reactive protein below 1.0.

I also read that curcumin can be an estrogen blocker, but normally it has low bioavailability.

So that is a possibility.

 

[MarcoFL]

It seems like every time I get the sensitive E2 it holds everything up and IMO does not seem correct. I know some HRT docs that are no longer using it. I think I am done using it too if Labcorp has issues with getting it right.