Using some Boosts - blood test input

[albert88]

Hey All,

My usual routine for years:

120 mg T/week
HCG or Pregnyl 800/week
Occasional Oxandrolone @ 25mg/day 3-4 days a week (6 months out of the year)

Doc has me OK’d for higher T use, Deca, etc. but I stay conservative.

Supplements:
Multi
CoQ10
4 Fish Oils/day (total 1.7 Grams EPA / 1 Gram DHA)
Creatine about 6 months/year
Curcumin 1000mg/day
Zinc 15mg/day

Diet: - I eat clean - almost 100% unprocessed:
2 Eggs/day with 6 whites
Oatmeal
Berries
Olive oil
Rice
Meat
Chicken
Fish/Salmon
Veggies
I do use butter

My blood tests are below and I want to know:

1. How can I improve my blood markers like Apo?
2. How can I improve cholesterol while eating red meat, butter and eggs? (I know about the oxandrolone)
3. Any major concerns I should have? (no worries on estrogen - I do better with it high)

 

[Vince]

The only way I know to lower your apolipoprotein b is by lowering your LDL cholesterol. For me it's eliminating carbs and increasing fat.

 

[tareload]

Fantastic job documenting comprehensive blood work. What were you taking when you pulled the bloods...oxandrolone? Or how long had it been since you stopped it before the blood was pulled.

While your trig/hdl-c ratio is pretty good the ApoB telling same general story that your LDL-p (from NMR test) would tell.

Relationship between plasma apolipoprotein B concentrations and LDL pa | RRCC

Relationship between plasma apolipoprotein B concentrations and LDL particle number Pamela B Morris,1 Kellie H McLain,1 Hector A Malave,2 James A Underberg,3 Ngoc-Anh Le,4 Michael D Shapiro,5 Deborah A Winegar,6 Ray Pourfarzib6 1Division of Cardiology, Medical University of South Carolina...

www.dovepress.com

Discordance between apolipoprotein B and low-density lipoprotein particle number is associated with insulin resistance in clinical practice

Discordance between measures of atherogenic lipoprotein particle number (apolipoprotein B [ApoB] and low-density lipoprotein [LDL] particle number by …

www.sciencedirect.com

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.2217/clp.12.89

 

[tareload]

My experience with oxandrolone...

Oxandrolone Troche Experience: Potential Atherosclerosis Marker WMD

Adverse lipids from c17AA is due to further activation of hepatic lipase, hepatic strain etc

forums.t-nation.com

Sh*t lipids are to be expected. Running a +/- experiment with NMR test really paints the picture.

Before and after:

Oxandrolone Troche Experience: Potential Atherosclerosis Marker WMD

Ok, I realize everybody typically does what they want to do but in case this helps someone. I have historically only used prescription androgens at “therapeutic” dosages (under cumulative 250 mg/week). I’ve been challenged with some issues that allows me to trial nandrolone and oxandrolone...

forums.t-nation.com

 

[albert88]

Fantastic job documenting comprehensive blood work. What were you taking when you pulled the bloods...oxandrolone? Or how long had it been since you stopped it before the blood was pulled.

Thank you! I was using oxandrolone very lightly but I did take 25mg the day before the test was done.

Appreciate the info all!

Would it benefit me to reduce red meat/butter intake? I hate to but I will hah.

 

[tareload]

Thank you! I was using oxandrolone very lightly but I did take 25mg the day before the test was done.

Appreciate the info all!

Would it benefit me to reduce red meat/butter intake? I hate to but I will hah.

What was your cumulative dose and history 4 weeks prior to blood work?

You need to get a baseline after 2-3 months off the oxandrolone. It wrecks your ApoB. To make you feel better if you would have tested Lp(a) it would probably have been quite low.

 

[Vince]

Thank you! I was using oxandrolone very lightly but I did take 25mg the day before the test was done.

Appreciate the info all!

Would it benefit me to reduce red meat/butter intake? I hate to but I will hah.

I would say increase your red meat, whole eggs and butter.

 

[Vince]

What happens to the carbs?

What happens to the carbs? I have found a strange thing happens when I talk to nutritionists about the fate of carbohydrates in the human body. Professors, who shall be nameless, appear unable to admit how basic human physiology works. For example, they may concede a few steps here and there...

www.excelmale.com

 

[Deleted member 43589]

Here is a piece of a speech I gave at a local county facility for retired folks.

Fibrates are a class of medication that lowers blood triglyceride levels in particular, small dense particle (LDL -B). Statins have little effect on particle size when tested in patients with the small dense LDL phenotype.

The following generic formulation medications are commonly given which have been shown to reduce LDL-B and increase LDL-A:

Gemfibrozil - Lopid
Fenofibrate - Antara, Triglide, Fibricor, Lipofen, Trilipix, and Fenoglide
Bezafibrate
Ciprofibrate

Diet Strategies

Strict low-fat diets (less than 20% of calories from fat) lower HDL and push LDL to the undesirable smaller size (LDL-B). Try adding dietary sources of plentiful monounsaturated fatty acids (especially raw nuts, flaxseed products, and olive and canola oils), eating unprocessed foods with a low glycemic index, and increasing lean protein intake. Omega-3 fatty acids from fish oil have a modest effect in raising total HDL and increasing large particles (LDL-A). Ketogenic diets have also been show to help.

The Ketogenic Diet:

• Increases LDL particle size to the less oxidation-prone state - a shift to LDL-A
• It increases the amount of HDL available to recycle LDL from the blood before it has a chance to become oxidized
• It improves the LDL to HDL ratio
• Lowers triglycerides and improves triglyceride to HDL ratio

* Dietary carbohydrates increase levels of small, dense LDL cholesterol (LDL-B).​

* Dietary saturated fat increases levels of both HDL cholesterol (which is inversely correlated with cardiovascular disease) and large buoyant LDL cholesterol (LDL-A).​

​

Include Coconut Oil

Coconut oil contains a high amount of saturated fats called medium chain triglycerides (MCT). Your cells burn MCTs for energy while storing very little as fat, boosting your metabolism and supporting your immune system. While eating more MTC’s will cause your cholesterol levels to rise, it is not considered to be a negative thing and will not increase our chance of cardiac problems.

Researchers found that the saturated fat from coconuts does not negatively impact the cholesterol profile. Instead, the coconut oil’s overall effect raised HDL while lowering triglycerides and small LDL cholesterol particles (LDL-B), which is definitely a good thing.

 

[tareload]

I am enjoying comparing/contrasting the rigor in the feedback you are getting at T-Nation vs EM:

Using Some Boosts - A Bit Concerned with Blood Test Results

Hey All, My usual routine for years: 120 mg T/week HCG or Pregnyl 800/week Occasional Oxandrolone @ 25mg/day 3-4 days a week (6 months out of the year) Doc has me OK’d for higher T use, Deca, etc. but I stay conservative. Supplements: Multi CoQ10 4 Fish Oils/day (total 1.7 Grams EPA / 1...

forums.t-nation.com

Somebody is holding out on us ...

Using Some Boosts - A Bit Concerned with Blood Test Results

Probably hard to believe but the Var makes a ~10-15% difference (verified with blood tests) in my numbers since WHEN I use it, it’s only 3-5 days a week at only 25mg/day. It provides a pretty big boost when taken a few hours before training - better performance, pump, etc. even at that small amount.

forums.t-nation.com

Probably hard to believe but the Var makes a ~10-15% difference (verified with blood tests) in my numbers since WHEN I use it, it’s only 3-5 days a week at only 25mg/day. It provides a pretty big boost when taken a few hours before training - better performance, pump, etc. even at that small amount.

What does this refer to?

 

[Deleted member 43589]

I have my blood work posted here somewhere which shows hwo bad 25mg hit my lipids in a short period of time. I will find it when i get back doing a few chores.

 

[tareload]

Time constant / washout period is about a week so it works in short order...

Realistic TRT Recomp Progress

I’ve been taking mine late in the afternoon. I always sleep like trash so idk if it effects it

forums.t-nation.com

 

[Deleted member 43589]

I guess I didn't post that here, instead it was another board and the steroid was Stanozolol (oral)

I started taking 25mg/d around November 1 (2021) after doing blood work

Cholesterol - 154 <200 normal
HDL - 45 > or = 40 normal
Triglycerides - 68 >150 normal
LDL - 94 >100 normal

After about 8 weeks I had my lipids tested again

Cholesterol - 182 up 28 points
HDL - 37 down 8 points
Triglycerides - 97 up 29 points
LDL - 125 up 31 points

These types of drugs are tought of as very mild but the effects they have on the lipids is quite dramatic.

 

[albert88]

Good Afternoon All,

First off - Amazing info in this thread, thank you all VERY much.

Secondly - my post on T-Nation is identical, I'm not hiding any info.

In the past I've messed with Deca, higher T, more Oxandrolone but that's all 12+ months in the past if not more. I realized I may be cutting my life short. So again...what I put here is what I use and that's been the case for 1+ years.

Even when I "blasted" it was low dose, short term. Most ever was 400 mg T for 8 weeks and I dropped back to 120mg. Deca was at 120/week for 8 weeks until my wee wee stopped working hah.

 

[albert88]

Here's a clear history of my using "boosts" - you'll see where I used hah:

 

[albert88]

 

[sammmy]

Butter increases both LDL and HDL.

Olive oil allegedly increases LDL less than butter.

Cheese, in my experience, does not change LDL, but increases HDL.

Bottom line: drop the butter and replace it with olive oil or cheese.

 

[Deleted member 43589]

Dietary saturated fat increases levels of both HDL cholesterol (which is inversely correlated with cardiovascular disease) and large buoyant LDL cholesterol (LDL-A).

LDL-A are small particles, these are the ones that slip between the endothelial cells and gain access to the inside wall of the artery where they cause damage leading to artherosclerotic plaque. The LDL -A are large and bouyant and can't slip through and are actually thought to be protective. This is why it is important to get thse ub particle test.

LDL particle size: an important drug target? - PMC

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Best Heart Disease Predictor: Cardio IQ Test Guide

Discover the best heart disease predictor with Cardio IQ test. Get insights into your lipid profile and take control of your heart health.

www.discountedlabs.com

 

[albert88]

Dietary saturated fat increases levels of both HDL cholesterol (which is inversely correlated with cardiovascular disease) and large buoyant LDL cholesterol (LDL-A).

LDL-A are small particles, these are the ones that slip between the endothelial cells and gain access to the inside wall of the artery where they cause damage leading to artherosclerotic plaque. The LDL -A are large and bouyant and can't slip through and are actually thought to be protective. This is why it is important to get thse ub particle test.

LDL particle size: an important drug target? - PMC

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Best Heart Disease Predictor: Cardio IQ Test Guide

Discover the best heart disease predictor with Cardio IQ test. Get insights into your lipid profile and take control of your heart health.

www.discountedlabs.com

Thank you! It seems like once I get "this test" then I need to also get "that test" and it's endless. I'll add this text next time.

 

[evolution69]

For most people lowering saturated fat lowers LDL/ApoB. Some people don't respond much to changes in saturated fat. The range of the increase/decrease varies significantly between people. Also as mentioned above there seem to be differences in how the saturated fats from certain foods (ie milk, cheese) affect blood lipids.

For some people, dietary cholesterol increases LDL/ApoB (sometimes by a lot). For most people, dietary cholesterol has a limited effect on LDL/ApoB if at all.

Since everyone is different I think it is a good idea how diet affects YOU. If you find lowering saturated fat and cholesterol lowers your LDL, then maybe Ezetimibe would be a good fit to bring it further down if needed because it blocks the absorption in the gut and has a lower incidence of symptoms compared to statins.

Statins seem to be very well tolerated by most but they made me feel terrible when I tried them.

I didn't see an LP(a) test on your report, you may want to get that test. Usually, this number does not get affected by diet but it impacts your overall risk.