Unable to get HCG... Is HMG an option to prevent testicular atrophy?

[Jucaro]

I think I'll go with ovitrelle, but since I had already ordered HMG from the pharmacy, I got it yesterday and decided to first give it a try and see the results, I took the first dose yesterday... I'll keep you updated, today I already see some effect...
By the way, my wife is general practitioner, that`s why I don't talk about need to see a doctor for prescriptions...

 

[Jucaro]

Would it be possible to dilute the 0,5 ml ovitrelle into a vial with 2 ml of water for injection, so you have a more manageable concentration for dosing?
Anybody experiencing that?

I'm afraid it could loose some properties with the interaction with water, cause of ph, osmolarity etc...

 

[Deleted member 16042]

Would it be possible to dilute the 0,5 ml ovitrelle into a vial with 2 ml of water for injection, so you have a more manageable concentration for dosing?
Anybody experiencing that?

I'm afraid it could loose some properties with the interaction with water, cause of ph, osmolarity etc...

Is Ovitrelle recombinant HCG? If so, I am not sure the recombinant form would be analagous to non recombinant lyophilized HCG generics in terms of dilution.

Lyophilized apparently can be diluted to different concentrations depending on use. I buy Corion which comes with solution and instructions to mix at a much higher concentration which is typical for use for fertility, not as adjunct for TRT. However I dilute it with bacteriostatic diluent to lower concentration for my smaller dosage.

It has been stated by Empower pharmacy on this forum that their freeze dried material is the same as big pharma produced versions. Compounding pharmacy versions are typically diluted to 100iu per ml.

So it appears that there is a pretty wide range for lyophilized HCG dilution.

It seems the most important factor is if you are going to store for multiple doses, use bacteriostatic water or sodium chloride as diluent. Without the benzyl alcohol bateriostatic agent, there is no inhibition of bacterial growth in the solution once the amp or vial has been opened.

(Note, this is my outlook and my practice based on available information, it is not confirmed by written instructions with the Corion. This logic may not apply to the specific product you are asking about).

 

[Jucaro]

Is Ovitrelle recombinant HCG? If so, I am not sure the recombinant form would be analagous to non recombinant lyophilized HCG generics in terms of dilution.

Lyophilized apparently can be diluted to different concentrations depending on use. I buy Corion which comes with solution and instructions to mix at a much higher concentration which is typical for use for fertility, not as adjunct for TRT. However I dilute it with bacteriostatic diluent to lower concentration for my smaller dosage.

It has been stated by Empower pharmacy on this forum that their freeze dried material is the same as big pharma produced versions. Compounding pharmacy versions are typically diluted to 100iu per ml.

So it appears that there is a pretty wide range for lyophilized HCG dilution.

It seems the most important factor is if you are going to store for multiple doses, use bacteriostatic water or sodium chloride as diluent. Without the benzyl alcohol bateriostatic agent, there is no inhibition of bacterial growth in the solution once the amp or vial has been opened.

(Note, this is my outlook and my practice based on available information, it is not confirmed by written instructions with the Corion. This logic may not apply to the specific product you are asking about).

Thank you for the infomation. Yes, Ovitrelle is recombinant HCG or synthetic hcg, it comes in 0.5 ml single dose pre-filled syringe, equivalent to approximately 6500 IU of HCG. Then, althoug not impossible, it is challenging to dose it for trt, then, that's the question: Would it be ok to dilute it as well as for HCG?

 

[Deleted member 16042]

Thank you for the infomation. Yes, Ovitrelle is recombinant HCG or synthetic hcg, it comes in 0.5 ml single dose pre-filled syringe, equivalent to approximately 6500 IU of HCG. Then, althoug not impossible, it is challenging to dose it for trt, then, that's the question: Would it be ok to dilute it as well as for HCG?

I do not know definitively nor have evidence specifically regarding dilution of recombinant HCG.

There is discussion on at least one thread on Crisler's old allthingsmale with anecdotal discussion that guys who use ovidrel do dilute.

 

[Olsman]

The thread starter is wrong, HCG exist in Spain, probably there are different brands but most wellknown is Lepori Gonadotrofina Corionica is on sale on ANY pharmacy in the country, it¨s about 5 Euros... (3 shots), just google it, it comes i n different cc dosages

 

[Jucaro]

The thread starter is wrong, HCG exist in Spain, probably there are different brands but most wellknown is Lepori Gonadotrofina Corionica is on sale on ANY pharmacy in the country, it¨s about 5 Euros... (3 shots), just google it, it comes i n different cc dosages

1.- "Google it" is not enough, if you don't apply filters and select sources you are more likely to get wrong or outdated information. Yes, you probably can get HCG in Spain: from ilegal steroid sellers, with fake brands and/or drugs of doubtfull origen and quality. I have nothing to do with that...

2.- I don't need to google it, I have first hand information and sources becouse I am directly inside the sector. But if you want to look on the internet, just visit vademecum.es to find the most updated and reliable information.

3.- HCG is withdrawn not only from Spain, now also from France, Portugal, UK, and more european countries. (read this thread and also the links Tommy has provided).

4.- What we have here is HMG Lepori (human menopausic gonadotrophin), which I am using right now before going to ovitrelle (recombinant HCG, "Coriogonadotropina alfa" as you can read in previous posts). There are more brands like Menopur and Meriofert with HMG (FSH+LH) but are even more expensive.

 

[Jucaro]

Update: As I said before, I'm trying HMG lepori in first place cause I already had it when I knew Ovitrelle could be splitted in microdoses...
I've had 4 doses of HMG Lepori, not splitting it but taking one whole ampulle of 75 IU each FSH & LH, every 3,5 days. The ten amp. would last me 5 weeks at a cost of 150 €, which is unafordable at long run.
Results up to now: The skin of the Scrotum hang more relaxed and thin, so the testes hang as well giving confort and better aesthetic. Testicles size: better than without HMG, but still not to the original size or to the size they have gotten when I've tried to come off TRT by running tamoxifen alone for a couple of months. Also the size or fullness sensation on the testes fluctuates from one dose to the next dose.
I think using the half of the dose 37.5 IU twice a week by splitting each amp. wouldn't provide satisfactory results. HMG is used mainly for fertility so may be its 75 IU of LH are not enough for good stimulation of Leydig cells, actually for fertility issues it is recommended to use in combination with HCG.

On the other hand, I am feeling great again after restarting my TRT from a failed attempt to come off.
Libido, wellbeing feelling and sexual function are really, really good. Brain fog is gone. My current protocol: Test cypionate 0.25 ml (31,25 mg) EOD Shallow IM in my thighs (which I find more confortable, even less painfull and less issues than SubQ), Anastrozole 0,25 mg every 3,5 days, and tadalafil 2,5 mg ED. (and of course, now also HMG as transitory trial)

 

[Tommy Wall]

One downside with Ovitrelle is when travelling once you bought it at a farmacy you should put in the fridge. With Pregnyl you could take it with you with keeping it cool and mix it where ever you would be. I stay in Italy for 4 month a year with will make it a bit tricky.

 

[Jucaro]

One downside with Ovitrelle is when travelling once you bought it at a farmacy you should put in the fridge. With Pregnyl you could take it with you with keeping it cool and mix it where ever you would be. I stay in Italy for 4 month a year with will make it a bit tricky.

May be the solution for that problem:
http://xurl.es/uoh8g
http://xurl.es/i967v

What I am planning to do is is to pre-load many 0.3 ml syringes from the ovitrelle pen, then store them into one of those fridging portable devices. Then I'm ready to go immedately when it is time for dose.

 

[Jucaro]

I don't know if you'll be able to because you live in Spain but is it possible for you to order HCG from reliable RX?
https://www.reliablerxpharmacy.com/?mw_aref=9413cd212f5158a8568bb47de2fe1ceb

I am about to try ovitrelle shortly, but since I am exploring all possibilities, I got in touch with reliable RX, and they said they do ship to Spain, so probably even if am to start with ovitrelle, I will try an order of HCG from reliable RX and see what happen.
I am still worried about the storage while on shipping to Spain, cause of the temperature, but I understand it can be at room temperature till the moment you mix it...

 

[Tommy Wall]

If the supplier writes "medication" on the parcel it might be stoped at the customs.

 

[Jucaro]

If the supplier writes "medication" on the parcel it might be stoped at the customs.

I purchased some medicine once from Canada and it was delivered free of issues..., Now I don't remember exactly if it said it was medication...

Any way, the trial wouldn't be for the medication itself, but precisely for the delivery from US to Spain. Or might be if I find ovitrelle to be very effective and not messy to handle, I won't bother trying to buy HCG from US.

 

[Vince]

I am about to try ovitrelle shortly, but since I am exploring all possibilities, I got in touch with reliable RX, and they said they do ship to Spain, so probably even if am to start with ovitrelle, I will try an order of HCG from reliable RX and see what happen.
I am still worried about the storage while on shipping to Spain, cause of the temperature, but I understand it can be at room temperature till the moment you mix it...

Don't worry about the temperature, it's good because it's not mixed. You mix it. If you don't receive it, reliable RX will resend it. They have great customer service I've never had any issues with them. Once one of my packages was not delivered because of customs and they replaced it with a new package and no cost to me.

 

[Jucaro]

Sounds good however I -prefill everything into one syring that I keep in the fridge with inside a plastic bag with alcohol etc.... and when time to inject I just draw 3 bars. But If you can get 0.6ml syringes that sounds even better. Keep us informed how it goes. In Portugal it cost around 35€ per pre-filled syringe but taking into account that you only need 2x0,3ml per week its not that expensive.

I got my first ovitrelle after finished with the 10 amp. of HMG, (HMG was good, and was giving me better and more stable results over time, but is too expensive).
After examining the preloaded ovitrelle pen, I got the conclusion it is not necessary to prefill any syringe. Just use it as a normal vial and withdraw every dose directly through the small rubber cap. I use a 0.3ml insulin syringe which allows me to get the exact amount I want...

 

[Tommy Wall]

It´s good idea as well.

 

[Jucaro]

I started to feel some loose of libido and some difficulty with erections a while after begining with Ovitrelle (r-HCG), got my labs done and... sorprise...
Total T: 12,55 ng/ml (high)
Free T: 34,10 pg/ml (high)
Prolactine 11,47 ng/ml (normal)
Estradiol: 26 pg/ml

It seems 110 mg of testosterone a week (divided into EOD doses) plus 260 IU of HCG EOD makes too much testosterone for me and I don't respond well to that. I will have to reduce testosterone to a much significantly lower dose...
Does anybody have any similar experience or knoledge on this? Any Advise?

 

[Jucaro]

Just an update:
Using r-HCG (Ovitrelle) and testosterone together (doses as stated above) I crashed deeply while having elevated levels of testosterone and apparently normal E2.
I decreased the dose of testosterone and had just a little improvement... then completely cut off testosterone and kept ovitrelle about 390 IU EOD, few days after I started to feel much better, now full of mental and physical well-being as I didn't feel from long time ago...
It seems my testicles work pretty well... and my problem is due to LH deficiency... more likely because of the very intense stress I had being going through and lack of sleep (working night shifts and studying), also because of age 50.
For now I plan to stay on ovitrelle monotherapy (No AI, nothing else)

 

[Tommy Wall]

Pls post your next lab work, it will be interesting to see where your testo level will stay on your new protocol.

 

[Jucaro]

Pls post your next lab work, it will be interesting to see where your testo level will stay on your new protocol.

Sure I will do it! But won´t happen untill january when will take the lab work...