20 y/o - Testicular recovery after 2 years post DHT use

[Alessandro27]

Anyone else had experiences with HMG?

 

[Alessandro27]

Hey i'm still here..
Due to COVID here in italy, my plan to get a prescription hasn't worked... damn I have to try this HMG but I don't know how to get it...

 

[he-man100]

Hey i'm still here..
Due to COVID here in italy, my plan to get a prescription hasn't worked... damn I have to try this HMG but I don't know how to get it...

I don`t understand why you want to use HMG first. HMG doesn`t really work without HCG which can be difficult to manage. If your LH and FSH are in low range a low dose serm cycle could very well be helpful and it would be much easier to manage.

 

[fifty]

Sounds like you're not getting HMG. Why not try clomid which you probably can get?

 

[he-man100]

I don`t understand why you want to use HMG first. HMG doesn`t really work without HCG which can be difficult to manage. If your LH and FSH are in low range a low dose serm cycle could very well be helpful and it would be much easier to manage.

I see your first post says you tried serms but stopped due to side effects. You don`t mention you dosage maybe it was to high? Maybe a lower dose is worth a try?

 

[Alessandro27]

I see your first post says you tried serms but stopped due to side effects. You don`t mention you dosage maybe it was to high? Maybe a lower dose is worth a try?

Yes I tried Clomid at 25mg a day and after 4 days I had side effects like eyesight changes and other sides..
Nolva I tried 10 mg a day..
Less sides on Aromasin though

 

[Alessandro27]

I don`t understand why you want to use HMG first. HMG doesn`t really work without HCG which can be difficult to manage. If your LH and FSH are in low range a low dose serm cycle could very well be helpful and it would be much easier to manage.

Can I know why you say that HMG doesn't really work without HCG? It contains LH..
My LH is in the mid range, FSH is in the low range... but mainly I think I need to recover testicular tissue and reverse the slight atrophy...
I can't find anywhere that SERMs can reverse testicular atrophy or grow testicuar tissue, they seem to only affect the pituitary gland... but maybe I'm wrong, I don't know...

Impotence related to anabolic steroid use in a body builder. Response to clomiphene citrate - PMC

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[he-man100]

Can I know why you say that HMG doesn't really work without HCG? It contains LH..
My LH is in the mid range, FSH is in the low range... but mainly I think I need to recover testicular tissue and reverse the slight atrophy...
I can't find anywhere that SERMs can reverse testicular atrophy or grow testicuar tissue, they seem to only affect the pituitary gland... but maybe I'm wrong, I don't know...

Impotence related to anabolic steroid use in a body builder. Response to clomiphene citrate - PMC

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Sometimes people seem to recover testicular function but not size completly after steroid use and sometimes the other way around but more often it goes hand in hand.
HMG doesn`t really work on it`s own because the amount of lh in it is to low.
A serm increases LH and FSH. Why do you think you could recover testicular size by exogenous FSH from HMG but not through increasing youur own lh fsh with a serm?

It looks like you never fully recovered from your 6 week steroid use which is not common but possible and a serm would be your best option for recovery.

 

[Alessandro27]

Sometimes people seem to recover testicular function but not size completly after steroid use and sometimes the other way around but more often it goes hand in hand.
HMG doesn`t really work on it`s own because the amount of lh in it is to low.
A serm increases LH and FSH. Why do you think you could recover testicular size by exogenous FSH from HMG but not through increasing youur own lh fsh with a serm?

It looks like you never fully recovered from your 6 week steroid use which is not common but possible and a serm would be your best option for recovery.

I like your opinion, but do you think Exemestane can replace a serm in order to raise own LH, FSH and recover testicles?
I ask this because serms make me feel shitty.

 

[he-man100]

I like your opinion, but do you think Exemestane can replace a serm in order to raise own LH, FSH and recover testicles?
I ask this because serms make me feel shitty.

In general serms are more effective in raising LH FSH but Aromatase inhibitors work aswell.
I think in your case an AI could be an option.
But you have to watch out not to tank your e2 to low. Studies actually show it does`t happen in AI monotheraphy which is probably due to intra testicular aromatase but there is some controverse about this since they might have used the non sensitive e2 test in those studies.

Pharmacokinetics and Dose Finding of a Potent Aromatase Inhibitor, Aromasin (Exemestane), in Young Males

Abstract. Suppression of estrogen, via estrogen receptor or aromatase blockade, is being investigated in the treatment of different conditions. Exemestane

academic.oup.com

 

[Alessandro27]

You can use AIs instead of SERMS, and there's even at least one study showing it works. But overall it's a bad idea because of the negative health effects of excessive estradiol suppression.

If I could afford it I'd try using HMG instead of hCG. But even if you can afford it I'm not sure it's practical. First, you'd need much larger doses than what are usually used for fertility. I'd guess at least 150-300 IU per day. But even this might not be enough to achieve normal intratesticular testosterone. With hCG it takes about 300 IU EOD to do that. But hCG is effectively much stronger, with one presentation citing a figure of 6-8 times more effective on a per-IU basis. A single daily injection of FSH seems to work to stimulate Sertoli cells, but it's not clear that a single daily pulse of short-acting LH would adequately stimulate the Leydig cells.

I agree that hCG is a nuisance because of its strong effect on estradiol, but if I were doing a restart I would include some with the HMG.

Hello Cataceous, how are you?
I have finally found a legit source of HMG and HCG, here where I live in Italy it's not so easy to get these drugs.
Finally I will be able to start this recovery cycle, I hope things will go well, I'm still very young...

I'm just re-reading the old posts, can I know where you have found that HCG's LH activity is 6-8 times stronger than HMG's LH activity on a per-IU basis?
Thanks

 

[Cataceous]

Hello Cataceous, how are you?
I have finally found a legit source of HMG and HCG, here where I live in Italy it's not so easy to get these drugs.
Finally I will be able to start this recovery cycle, I hope things will go well, I'm still very young...

I'm just re-reading the old posts, can I know where you have found that HCG's LH activity is 6-8 times stronger than HMG's LH activity on a per-IU basis?
Thanks

Doing well, thanks.

The reference for comparing hCG and LH is here. It is a presentation by Marco Filicori. He writes: "1 IU hCG = 6-8 IU LH". I have since come across some other papers implying that the comparison is more complicated than this, with different relative strengths in different tissues, etc. But hopefully the simplification is generally not too far off.