Trt options in men with BPH

[Cataceous]

What was once considered healthy 30 years ago is being redefined today.

As I said, even 30 years ago TT of 1,000 ng/dL was high-end. You're the one trying to redefine high as normal, ignoring the issue of elevated SHBG. To avoid possible bias in current ranges you can use Vermeulen calculated free testosterone with a reference range of 7-23 ng/dL. That's what I do.

There are over 200 chemicals in your body at any given time. These chemicals disrupt the normal function of neurotransmitters, hormones and more. The result is auto immune diseases, weight gain, fatigue, erectile dysfunction, testosterone deficiency, hair loss etc.

That's the click bait, not the science. Got to make it sound as scary as possible. News flash: Our bodies are nothing but chemicals. Beyond that it's the dose that makes the poison. Being able to detect minuscule amounts of any substance does not mean it's enough to cause harm.

 

[AnthonyMTB]

maybe for me i may drop my test dose and add in nandrolone as it may be safer for the prostate. do 80-90 mg each a week.

Be careful. Made me feel like crap! Low motivation, lethargic and depressed. Need my DHT! I'm a bit of a sensitive sole though.

 

[RobRoy]

As I said, even 30 years ago TT of 1,000 ng/dL was high-end. You're the one trying to redefine high as normal, ignoring the issue of elevated SHBG. To avoid possible bias in current ranges you can use Vermeulen calculated free testosterone with a reference range of 7-23 ng/dL. That's what I do.


That's the click bait, not the science. Got to make it sound as scary as possible. News flash: Our bodies are nothing but chemicals. Beyond that it's the dose that makes the poison. Being able to detect minuscule amounts of any substance does not mean it's enough to cause harm.

Spoken like the village idiot you are. Have you not looked at some of the most recent literature, and even major news articles on what the endocrine disrupting chemicals are doing to men's testosterones and semen levels? Do you have any idea how they work in the body and how they affect the androgen receptor? Did you recently see the most recent article showing Micro plastics found in men's testicles? I can see you have not spent any time on the literature, regarding endocrine, disrupting chemicals, and their affect on men. It's obvious by your posts.
Who are the epitome of the dunning Kruger effect.
For you the Dunning-Kruger Effect goes beyond ignorance. It presents a meta-layer of ignorance—the ignorance of our own ignorance.

 

[RobRoy]

TT of 1,000 ng/dL is high-end even by historical standards, and it was most likely reflecting individuals with above-average SHBG. Additionally, their trough and average levels would have been lower. Do not discourage him from aiming for more reasonable levels. There's no evidence that having TT 50% over a healthy average is a good idea. On the contrary, we know that side effects make it problematic for a significant fraction.

There's plenty of evidence but you don't know the evidence. You continue to show your complete ignorance of the medical literature. You don't understand the difference between pharmacologic dosing and physiologic dosing. You don't understand how testosterone actually works. You actually don't understand the history of the normal range. I don't see anybody that has side effects that make it problematic for significant fraction. With all your vast clinical experience and medical training, please let us know how you came about with such insight into testosterone. Your comments on many topics is comical. It certainly isn't based on the medical literature which you have absolutely no working knowledge of.

 

[Marchickney]

I believe low dose daily Tadalafil (2.5/5mg) can be used to manage BPH, as well as helping with ED issues.
Stinging Nettle Root similarly as a more natural option. Might be worth chatting with your Dr?
I tried Nandrolone briefly last year, killed my libido right off even on low dose.
Hope this helps.

 

[Cataceous]

Spoken like the village idiot you are. Have you not looked at some of the most recent literature, and even major news articles on what the endocrine disrupting chemicals are doing to men's testosterones and semen levels? Do you have any idea how they work in the body and how they affect the androgen receptor? Did you recently see the most recent article showing Micro plastics found in men's testicles? I can see you have not spent any time on the literature, regarding endocrine, disrupting chemicals, and their affect on men. It's obvious by your posts.
Who are the epitome of the dunning Kruger effect.
For you the Dunning-Kruger Effect goes beyond ignorance. It presents a meta-layer of ignorance—the ignorance of our own ignorance.

Ad hominem attacks, the last refuge of the incompetent. I'm sure this will be your usual hit-and-run approach: Spew insults and make assertions that you can't or won't support. As a matter of fact I have looked at some of the literature. While I never denied that EDCs may be a factor in declining testosterone/semen levels, the hype overshadows the much more influential lifestyle factors that are under our control. If you're obese, sedentary and eat junk then fixing that is going to have much more influence on your health than fretting about EDCs.

There's plenty of evidence but you don't know the evidence. You continue to show your complete ignorance of the medical literature. You don't understand the difference between pharmacologic dosing and physiologic dosing. You don't understand how testosterone actually works. You actually don't understand the history of the normal range. I don't see anybody that has side effects that make it problematic for significant fraction. With all your vast clinical experience and medical training, please let us know how you came about with such insight into testosterone. Your comments on many topics is comical. It certainly isn't based on the medical literature which you have absolutely no working knowledge of.

All this verbiage and not a shred of support. Not surprising coming from a guy who parrots misinformation about free T and SHBG.

I don't see anybody that has side effects that make it problematic for significant fraction.​

That's some kind of statistical miracle. But then you're the guy who doesn't consider high blood viscosity to be a risk factor. That's unfortunate for those you influence and for your patients — assuming you're not just some online poser.

 

[Charliebizz]

So you have a slightly above average prostate size. And no symptoms. And you want to mess with your t levels ?

 

[Nelson Vergel]

My TT is around 900-1000, I was thinking of dropping it to 6-700 and maybe add low dose nandrolone as a semi replacement or addition as nandrolone doesn’t convert to DHT. Any other thoughts on this?

Hey Steve

All androgens in general can make BPH symptoms worse, so nandrolone will not be any different. There are studies that show that TRT in general can actually improve BPH symptoms (these studies are usually done using gels, so lower blood levels).

Are you having BPH symptoms? Are you taking any supplements or medications? "Energy formulas" can cause some of the BPH symptoms below.

Obstructive Symptoms
Difficulty starting urination (hesitancy)
Weak or interrupted urine stream
Straining to urinate
Dribbling at the end of urination
Inability to completely empty the bladder
These symptoms are caused by the enlarged prostate gland obstructing the urethra and blocking the normal flow of urine.


Irritative Symptoms
Frequent urination (urinary frequency)
Urgent need to urinate (urgency)
Increased urination at night (nocturia)
Urinary incontinence (leakage of urine)

 

[Gianluca]

I’m only 45 but have BPH, no symptoms. Did mri scan of body and found my prostate to be 38 ml, normal is less than 30 ml.

My TT is around 900-1000, I was thinking of dropping it to 6-700 and maybe add low dose nandrolone as a semi replacement or addition as nandrolone doesn’t convert to DHT. Any other thoughts on this?

@Nelson Vergel ?

How is your Progesterone level?

 

[jayt]

I’m only 45 but have BPH, no symptoms. Did mri scan of body and found my prostate to be 38 ml, normal is less than 30 ml.

My TT is around 900-1000, I was thinking of dropping it to 6-700 and maybe add low dose nandrolone as a semi replacement or addition as nandrolone doesn’t convert to DHT. Any other thoughts on this?

@Nelson Vergel ?

Hey Steve; I feel your issue, my Prostrate is 40, my doctor has been monitoring it for 10 years, put me on Alfufosin (spelling ?) and was on it for the 10 years. Still had to urinate very often and my stream was a dribble. My Urologist retired and was replaced with a young buck who said he could help me. He recommended that I have a "EuroLift" proceedure where they insert "clips" to open the uretha, assuring me I would reduce frequency and nightly wake ups to urinate. It was a simple proceedure with just a little discomfort for about 4 days. I am so pleased and recommend the "EuroLift" 100%. Now 5 weeks after the proceedure, my stream is like a race horse and I drain my blatter. Frequency has returned to normal and no wake ups during the night. It has also greatly improved the size of my loads during sex and improved orgasims to both my surprise and delight. When I met last with my doctor and told him, he just smiled and said "yea". Check it out on line and talk to your Urologist. I should add I am 74 but performing like I was 30 or so... it is awesome. Good Luck.

 

[Steve78]

Hey Steve

All androgens in general can make BPH symptoms worse, so nandrolone will not be any different. There are studies that show that TRT in general can actually improve BPH symptoms (these studies are usually done using gels, so lower blood levels).

Are you having BPH symptoms? Are you taking any supplements or medications? "Energy formulas" can cause some of the BPH symptoms below.

Obstructive Symptoms
Difficulty starting urination (hesitancy)
Weak or interrupted urine stream
Straining to urinate
Dribbling at the end of urination
Inability to completely empty the bladder
These symptoms are caused by the enlarged prostate gland obstructing the urethra and blocking the normal flow of urine.


Irritative Symptoms
Frequent urination (urinary frequency)
Urgent need to urinate (urgency)
Increased urination at night (nocturia)
Urinary incontinence (leakage of urine)

Hey!
I’m not having any symptoms

 

[Steve78]

How is your Progesterone level?

It was normal…

 

[Steve78]

Hey Steve; I feel your issue, my Prostrate is 40, my doctor has been monitoring it for 10 years, put me on Alfufosin (spelling ?) and was on it for the 10 years. Still had to urinate very often and my stream was a dribble. My Urologist retired and was replaced with a young buck who said he could help me. He recommended that I have a "EuroLift" proceedure where they insert "clips" to open the uretha, assuring me I would reduce frequency and nightly wake ups to urinate. It was a simple proceedure with just a little discomfort for about 4 days. I am so pleased and recommend the "EuroLift" 100%. Now 5 weeks after the proceedure, my stream is like a race horse and I drain my blatter. Frequency has returned to normal and no wake ups during the night. It has also greatly improved the size of my loads during sex and improved orgasims to both my surprise and delight. When I met last with my doctor and told him, he just smiled and said "yea". Check it out on line and talk to your Urologist. I should add I am 74 but performing like I was 30 or so... it is awesome. Good Luck.

Thanks for the info! I’m lucky I don’t have any symptoms but I am just mainly concerned about getting prostate cancer

 

[Systemlord]

I am just mainly concerned about getting prostate cancer

Then it’s a good thing you have high testosterone!

 

[Cataceous]

Then it’s a good thing you have high testosterone!

Another confident pronouncement with no basis in fact. You'd do better if you said it's good he doesn't have low testosterone. Some balanced statements on the subject:

In recent years, research has challenged the link between testosterone and prostate cancer. Some studies have contradicted it, finding a higher risk of prostate cancer among men with low testosterone levels.​

​

A 2016 meta-analysis of research found no relationship between a man’s testosterone level and his risk of developing prostate cancer. Another review of studies showed that testosterone therapy doesn’t increase the risk of prostate cancer or make it more severe in men who have already been diagnosed.​

​

According to a 2015 review in the journal Medicine, testosterone replacement therapy also doesn’t increase prostate specific antigen (PSA) levels. PSA is a protein that’s elevated in the bloodstream of men with prostate cancer.​

[R]

 

[Steve78]

Another confident pronouncement with no basis in fact. You'd do better if you said it's good he doesn't have low testosterone. Some balanced statements on the subject:

In recent years, research has challenged the link between testosterone and prostate cancer. Some studies have contradicted it, finding a higher risk of prostate cancer among men with low testosterone levels.​

​

A 2016 meta-analysis of research found no relationship between a man’s testosterone level and his risk of developing prostate cancer. Another review of studies showed that testosterone therapy doesn’t increase the risk of prostate cancer or make it more severe in men who have already been diagnosed.​

​

According to a 2015 review in the journal Medicine, testosterone replacement therapy also doesn’t increase prostate specific antigen (PSA) levels. PSA is a protein that’s elevated in the bloodstream of men with prostate cancer.​

[R]

Great info! So no need to lower my dosage

 

[Cataceous]

Great info! So no need to lower my dosage

While the studies on prostate cancer and testosterone are reassuring, if you want to maintain higher end levels indefinitely then you'd do well to delve into the studies to see if there's much coverage of free testosterone levels as high as yours. If not then you're back to speculating, or maybe extrapolating. If you're looking to maximize overall health and longevity then I think the best bet is to maintain moderate levels like the 600-700 ng/dL that you mention in the first post — assuming normal SHBG. On the other hand, if the perceived benefits trump the small nebulous risks then carry on.

 

[Steve78]

While the studies on prostate cancer and testosterone are reassuring, if you want to maintain higher end levels indefinitely then you'd do well to delve into the studies to see if there's much coverage of free testosterone levels as high as yours. If not then you're back to speculating, or maybe extrapolating. If you're looking to maximize overall health and longevity then I think the best bet is to maintain moderate levels like the 600-700 ng/dL that you mention in the first post — assuming normal SHBG. On the other hand, if the perceived benefits trump the small nebulous risks then carry on.

Well said! I’ll drop down to 600-700 levels

 

[TLR]

Ad hominem attacks, the last refuge of the incompetent. I'm sure this will be your usual hit-and-run approach: Spew insults and make assertions that you can't or won't support. As a matter of fact I have looked at some of the literature. While I never denied that EDCs may be a factor in declining testosterone/semen levels, the hype overshadows the much more influential lifestyle factors that are under our control. If you're obese, sedentary and eat junk then fixing that is going to have much more influence on your health than fretting about EDCs.


All this verbiage and not a shred of support. Not surprising coming from a guy who parrots misinformation about free T and SHBG.

I don't see anybody that has side effects that make it problematic for significant fraction.​

That's some kind of statistical miracle. But then you're the guy who doesn't consider high blood viscosity to be a risk factor. That's unfortunate for those you influence and for your patients — assuming you're not just some online poser.

Haven’t been around for awhile….come back to see what’s up and see Rob Roy still at it….I was gonna ask a question of everybody related to e2 creeping up relative to test level as I’ve aged and I’ve been having soft erections (something that has happened since I’ve been on TRT when my levels get to high 30s - 40). Was gonna ask if this happened to anybody else and if a LOW dose of AI would be appropriate (have not used in years after lowering dose), but I don’t feel like being told I need to keep adding testosterone till my e2 is at 60 because I don’t know my own body!! Hang in there Cataceous…

 

[Pnw0031]

Haven’t been around for awhile….come back to see what’s up and see Rob Roy still at it….I was gonna ask a question of everybody related to e2 creeping up relative to test level as I’ve aged and I’ve been having soft erections (something that has happened since I’ve been on TRT when my levels get to high 30s - 40). Was gonna ask if this happened to anybody else and if a LOW dose of AI would be appropriate (have not used in years after lowering dose), but I don’t feel like being told I need to keep adding testosterone till my e2 is at 60 because I don’t know my own body!! Hang in there Cataceous…

I haven’t interacted with Roy much, but every time I see him “interacting” with others here he’s stomping his feet like an angry little girl. Not too masculine of him!