"TRT/HRT/Nutrition/Cognition/Wellness/LT student of the game"

[Belekas]

The cream is potent shit though man. Can see why guys do well on it.

have you tried it before?

 

[Charliebizz]

have you tried it before?

Yes sir. It was amazing for me the first couple of days. The most insane libido and erections. I was back to 18 years old again. But I don’t seem to do great overall with high levels. It started effecting my sleep and shit. then I lowered the dose. And was kind of annoyed by applying 2x a day. So i stopped. Now I’m doing daily injections with a 1/2 click of cream. So far so good. I have decent libido on injections. But only get night woods. Never get spontaneous erections. with cream added in my libido is better and “my guy” feels more alive.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Yes sir. It was amazing for me the first couple of days. The most insane libido and erections. I was back to 18 years old again. But I don’t seem to do great overall with high levels. It started effecting my sleep and shit. then I lowered the dose. And was kind of annoyed by applying 2x a day. So i stopped. Now I’m doing daily injections with a 1/2 click of cream. So far so good. I have decent libido on injections. But only get night woods. Never get spontaneous erections. with cream added in my libido is better and “my guy” feels more alive.

*immediately texts steroid dealer TRT provider to order cream*

 

[tareload]

 

[Belekas]

OK time for an update.

Composed a plan and managed to push my NHS GP to take my private blood test and forward it to Endo team for an opinion. Didn't expect it would work, she wasn't happy as well, but it did to some extent. They wanted to run blood tests so today I've done them. Great, cause I saved around 100gbp and it was venous draw so all good. Results in ~5 days so we see what happens next. Even if they won't treat me and my blood results will still be low as per previous finger prick blood test I will start my own TRT using Sustanon that I have ready

Was a good decision to be patient and not jump on TRT and any other conclusions beforehand. "Measure 9 times cut 10th". As the old saying in my country goes.

Lets see what cards will be dealt once results come in. Will keep you guys updated.

Hope everyone is smashing it!

Ciao!

 

[Charliebizz]

OK time for an update.

Composed a plan and managed to push my NHS GP to take my private blood test and forward it to Endo team for an opinion. Didn't expect it would work, she wasn't happy as well, but it did to some extent. They wanted to run blood tests so today I've done them. Great, cause I saved around 100gbp and it was venous draw so all good. Results in ~5 days so we see what happens next. Even if they won't treat me and my blood results will still be low as per previous finger prick blood test I will start my own TRT using Sustanon that I have ready

Was a good decision to be patient and not jump on TRT and any other conclusions beforehand. "Measure 9 times cut 10th". As the old saying in my country goes.

Lets see what cards will be dealt once results come in. Will keep you guys updated.

Hope everyone is smashing it!

Ciao!

Keep us posted !!!

 

[Belekas]

G'day guys.

So the results are in today, not sure if all, but will post the ones I've got to see in my app.
I've done this blood test at 12.25pm midday and not fasted fwiw.

The results:

Testosterone 16.7 nmol/L (8.6-29.0)
SHBG 57.0 nmol/L (18-54)
Albumin 49 g/L (35-50)
LH 5.4 iu/L (1.7-8.6)
FSH 7.1 iu/L (1.5-12.4) (other source 1.5-7.1)
Prolactin 159 mIU/L (86-324)
Free Testosterone(calc) 0.229 nmol/L (0.198-0.619)

No E2 test has been done as I understand. All this after a 1-1.5 month of eating good, lots of healthy fats, no restrictions, weight up like 3-5kg and training only 3x/week. Also was taking Boron 10mg/day, zinc 50mg 3days/week (also Cooper as well), 15g Omega3's/day, multi daily, Vitamin E 3days per week, B12 3days /week as well, and Turmeric daily, Magnesium/Calcium and Vitamin D3 daily as well fwiw.

I think it pains a completely different picture to my first blood test I've posted at the beginning of the thread.

What do you experienced guys think about my numbers? Lets talk sole numbers only now without symptoms as I will make a seperate post later on this week when I have more time in regards to symptoms and how/what changed since those couple of months.


All questions, comments are more then welcome guys and huge thank you for taking your time looking at this.

Respect guys and lets have a smashing day!


Best regards,
Bel

 

[Systemlord]

What do you experienced guys think about my numbers?

Underwhelming is the first thought that comes to mind, the Total T below 500 and SHBG above ranges. I don't think I've even seem a member claim feel normal in this situation.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Free Testosterone(calc) 0.229 nmol/L (0.198-0.619)
...
What do you experienced guys think about my numbers?

While I'm not that experienced, I can tell you that's right on the line of officially hypogonadal which starts at < 0.225 nmol/L. You've been doing everything you possibly can to live and eat right, pulling out all the stops with things like high dose boron and zinc, and you just barely reached the normal range threshold by a scrotum hair.

I would have already taken my first sustanon injection by now.

 

[Belekas]

Underwhelming is the first thought that comes to mind, the Total T below 500 and SHBG above ranges. I don't think I've even seem a member claim feel normal in this situation.

Yeah thats just a slight increase from my previous test tbf. My pops @ 64 yo rocks around 600 TotalT without any workouts or supps just sitting in his office handling his business. And I'm here doing more then anyone else I know and get sub 500 and borderline low FreeT like @FunkOdyssey mentioned...smh

 

[Belekas]

While I'm not that experienced, I can tell you that's right on the line of officially hypogonadal which starts at < 0.225 nmol/L. You've been doing everything you possibly can to live and eat right, pulling out all the stops with things like high dose boron and zinc, and you just barely reached the normal range threshold by a scrotum hair.

I would have already taken my first sustanon injection by now.

Yeah fair enough mate. Funny thing is I don't feel somehow too bad at all since I started eating more and training less even with these levels atm. I can feel my libido is already a lot better then before, gym strenght increasing as well, sleep not too bad as well BUT I'm very interested to know if my bone health and overall brain fog would be better on low dose TRT fwiw. I don't even talk about anxiety or fatigue because we all have good and bad days and I've learned to suck it up over the years and call it normal life if that makes sense.

Now as I have 30ml of Sustanon on my desk I think I will try at least for some months to see if it has any positive effect on any of these things. I'm thinking maybe 100mg e3.5d and see what happens. Was thinking 100 or 150. Whats your thinking regarding reasonable dose if I may ask?

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Yeah fair enough mate. Funny thing is I don't feel somehow too bad at all since I started eating more and training less even with these levels atm. I can feel my libido is already a lot better then before, gym strenght increasing as well, sleep not too bad as well BUT I'm very interested to know if my bone health and overall brain fog would be better on low dose TRT fwiw. I don't even talk about anxiety or fatigue because we all have good and bad days and I've learned to suck it up over the years and call it normal life if that makes sense.

Now as I have 30ml of Sustanon on my desk I think I will try at least for some months to see if it has any positive effect on any of these things. I'm thinking maybe 100mg e3.5d and see what happens. Was thinking 100 or 150. Whats your thinking regarding reasonable dose if I may ask?

I think around the 100 mg weekly level is enough for many to reach the top of the normal range and have good results. It will be too much for some and too little for others. You have to experiment to find out. You might want to consider a higher frequency than twice weekly due to the short esters in sustanon. EOD seems to be a popular way to use it.

As you increase dose beyond a certain point, it seems like most guys start trading well-being for gains. Strength, recovery, and mass improve while sexual function, sleep, and mental health worsen. Depending on your goals it might be worth it or it might not.

 

[Belekas]

I think around the 100 mg weekly level is enough for many to reach the top of the normal range and have good results. It will be too much for some and too little for others. You have to experiment to find out. You might want to consider a higher frequency than twice weekly due to the short esters in sustanon. EOD seems to be a popular way to use it.

As you increase dose beyond a certain point, it seems like most guys start trading well-being for gains. Strength, recovery, and mass improve while sexual function, sleep, and mental health worsen. Depending on your goals it might be worth it or it might not.

I hear you. I'm fine with my physyque what I've built over the period of 15 years hard training and since I'm turning 40 next year I'm well passed that goal to look like a freak and I'm all about wellness,longevity and brain/cognitive health. My HC has went down to 40%, my BP has went down to 116/70, some other blood markets also improved fwiw. So I don't want to mess with them at all and if they start creeping on me even on 100mg that will be an issue because I can't donate blood and I def won't pay for private plebothomy as it costs absurdly around here and probably won't even be in my city so fuck that. Next thing is I dont see myself pinning that frequent to be honest. I've always pinned 1 time per week, so I'm eager to try twice per week and see what happens and how I feel. I can't be stressed about all this as I have other more important things to take care off and can't waste time as I have serious life changing moves to make that require full concentration, focus and great health 24/7, if that makes sense.

How much do you take per week and in what range it keeps you?

 

[FunkOdyssey]

I hear you. I'm fine with my physyque what I've built over the period of 15 years hard training and since I'm turning 40 next year I'm well passed that goal to look like a freak and I'm all about wellness,longevity and brain/cognitive health. My HC has went down to 40%, my BP has went down to 116/70, some other blood markets also improved fwiw. So I don't want to mess with them at all and if they start creeping on me even on 100mg that will be an issue because I can't donate blood and I def won't pay for private plebothomy as it costs absurdly around here and probably won't even be in my city so fuck that. Next thing is I dont see myself pinning that frequent to be honest. I've always pinned 1 time per week, so I'm eager to try twice per week and see what happens and how I feel. I can't be stressed about all this as I have other more important things to take care off and can't waste time as I have serious life changing moves to make that require full concentration, focus and great health 24/7, if that makes sense.

How much do you take per week and in what range it keeps you?

Twice a week will probably be alright. You'll find out through trial and error anyway. Frequent injections may be helpful to keep hematocrit down, but if you keep the dose reasonable you should be OK with less frequency.

I'm not a great example as I am still very much in the dialing in phase but most recently, at 12 mg test cypionate daily, I had the following labs:

Total T: 976 ng/dL (250 - 1100)
Estradiol: 31 pg/ml (<= 29) (ultrasensitive)
SHBG: 39 nmol/L (10 - 50)
Measured Free T: 172.8 pg/ml (35 - 155) (equilibrium dialysis)
Calculated Free T: 20.8 ng/dL (Vermeulen)

 

[tareload]

Twice a week will probably be alright. You'll find out through trial and error anyway. Frequent injections may be helpful to keep hematocrit down, but if you keep the dose reasonable you should be OK with less frequency.

I'm not a great example as I am still very much in the dialing in phase but most recently, at 12 mg test cypionate daily, I had the following labs:

Total T: 976 ng/dL (250 - 1100)
Estradiol: 31 pg/ml (<= 29) (ultrasensitive)
SHBG: 39 nmol/L (10 - 50)
Measured Free T: 172.8 pg/ml (35 - 155) (equilibrium dialysis)
Calculated Free T: 20.8 ng/dL (Vermeulen)

Damn that cfTV minus 10-20% works like a champ!

Thanks for sharing and glad you are making progress.

 

[Belekas]

Twice a week will probably be alright. You'll find out through trial and error anyway. Frequent injections may be helpful to keep hematocrit down, but if you keep the dose reasonable you should be OK with less frequency.

I'm not a great example as I am still very much in the dialing in phase but most recently, at 12 mg test cypionate daily, I had the following labs:

Total T: 976 ng/dL (250 - 1100)
Estradiol: 31 pg/ml (<= 29) (ultrasensitive)
SHBG: 39 nmol/L (10 - 50)
Measured Free T: 172.8 pg/ml (35 - 155) (equilibrium dialysis)
Calculated Free T: 20.8 ng/dL (Vermeulen)

Sounds like you in the zone mate. Numbers look optimal IMO. How long uve been on it and how do you feel overall in regards to your symptoms that you had before starting?

 

[Systemlord]

While I'm not that experienced, I can tell you that's right on the line of officially hypogonadal which starts at < 0.225 nmol/L.

That's not to say you can't experience symptoms of low-T higher up in the ranges. Low-T is like a dimmer switch, slide the switch down gradually and the symptoms start to appear and worsen as you drop lower.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Sounds like you in the zone mate. Numbers look optimal IMO. How long uve been on it and how do you feel overall in regards to your symptoms that you had before starting?

Better: energy, mood, sleep, joint pain, response to exercise, nocturnal/morning erections, anemia, confidence
Not improved or slightly worse: libido, cognition
Significantly worse: hair loss, GERD/LPR symptoms, water retention

I'm in the process of switching to propionate right now and will be exploring the 10-15 mg daily range with that ester. There is some reason to hope it could improve everything on my not improved and worse lists.

 

[Belekas]

Better: energy, mood, sleep, joint pain, response to exercise, nocturnal/morning erections, anemia, confidence
Not improved or slightly worse: libido, cognition
Significantly worse: hair loss, GERD/LPR symptoms, water retention

I'm in the process of switching to propionate right now and will be exploring the 10-15 mg daily range with that ester. There is some reason to hope it could improve everything on my not improved and worse lists.

I hear ya and fair enough. Hair loss is def a bitch and I don't want that to happen. Also cognition must be on point for me else no bueno. Also I have had serious acid reflux issues and still battling with it thus I'm very mindful what I put in my mouth, hydration etc. How long uve been on if I may ask? Also have you tried less frequent injections and IM?

 

[FunkOdyssey]

I hear ya and fair enough. Hair loss is def a bitch and I don't want that to happen. Also cognition must be on point for me else no bueno. Also I have had serious acid reflux issues and still battling with it thus I'm very mindful what I put in my mouth, hydration etc. How long uve been on if I may ask? Also have you tried less frequent injections and IM?

My first few injections were small SC injections of cypionate (10-15 mg) and I reacted badly to them with a crazy acne breakout and severe reflux symptoms. I blamed this on the SC shot because the symptoms improved when I switched to shallow IM, which I continued to use until now (I've been on TRT about 3 months). However, I think the side effects from those first few shots may have happened anyway so it may have been unfair to blame SC.

I've been having good luck with SC injections using propionate. I had trouble tolerating propionate IM because of the intensity of the peak. I think injecting it SC smooths that out quite a bit -- at least it feels that way to me.

I was going to try a twice weekly protocol, but after my first 50 mg injection of cypionate I had two awful days of severe reflux symptoms. I might have just spiked my levels too high because I didn't allow any time to pass between my previous daily injections and the first large dose. It was discouraging enough that I decided to work on a daily propionate protocol instead.

Hopefully it won't be a problem for you, but there's a recent thread on here about reflux where I lay out my theories of how I think TRT can worsen reflux and what can be done about it: Acid Reflux and GERD Treatement