"TRT/HRT/Nutrition/Cognition/Wellness/LT student of the game"

[Belekas]

Feeling pretty good. Energy and erections are better than normal. Mood is pretty good. Libido is roughly pre-TRT, maybe slightly better. Some early water retention occurred but is already disappearing. Early insomnia occurred and is also gone. I don't seem prone to MPB but I have noticed an uptick in hair shedding in the shower. Keeping an eye on that. Skin is a bit worse since I bumped my dose from 10.5 to 15 mg daily. Feeling unusually confident, bold, and comfortable in social situations. May have gained a couple lbs of muscle.

Sounds like you on the right path so keep it up mate. Worth to remember that in this game every minor change goes a long way. Muscle gains are always welcome though hehe

 

[Belekas]

More sleep can double your testosterone level

Older men can sometimes double their testosterone levels by getting more sleep, according to a human study that Plamen Penev of the University of Chicago published in Sleep.

www.ergo-log.com

Extra hour sleep equals 12 percent more testosterone

Aging men's testosterone decline is largely due to the fact that older men sleep less well than younger men. Endocrinologists at the National University of Singapore reached this conclusion after studying 531 Chinese men aged between 29 and 72. The researchers measured the amount of testosterone...

www.ergo-log.com

 

[Belekas]

Sleep is cruicial for hormonal and overall wellbeing and I believe longevity as well, but whats the point in sleeping if you feel drained and tired upon waking up? Since the issue is multifactorial I prefer to work brick by brick and try to optimize one set of variables going forward. Sleep is gonna be a tough one for me as I start my work pretty much around midnight. So have to go to sleep way earlier in the evening which then interferes with my eating and digestion so thats also gotta be taken under consideration. So planning ahead is essential as if we are not getting better by atleast 1% each day then we are getting worse.

Hope everyone has a productive day!

Regards,
Bel

 

[FunkOdyssey]

More sleep can double your testosterone level

Older men can sometimes double their testosterone levels by getting more sleep, according to a human study that Plamen Penev of the University of Chicago published in Sleep.

www.ergo-log.com

Extra hour sleep equals 12 percent more testosterone

Aging men's testosterone decline is largely due to the fact that older men sleep less well than younger men. Endocrinologists at the National University of Singapore reached this conclusion after studying 531 Chinese men aged between 29 and 72. The researchers measured the amount of testosterone...

www.ergo-log.com

What if you can't sleep well because you're hypogonadal and you need testosterone to get better sleep?

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Sleep is gonna be a tough one for me as I start my work pretty much around midnight.

This will increase your risk of many diseases and your overall risk of death if you continue long-term. We are simply not built to be awake overnight. It's unfortunate that our society depends on some people to take on that burden of ill health but I urge you to let it be someone else.

 

[Belekas]

This will increase your risk of many diseases and your overall risk of death if you continue long-term. We are simply not built to be awake overnight. It's unfortunate that our society depends on some people to take on that burden of ill health but I urge you to let it be someone else.

I get your point but society has nothing to do here it's my choice and this is what I do and been doing for years. Thats why I prefer to be in top shape, have my nutrition, stress and recovery protocols nailed as much as possible. Now I do sleep but not as much as required but the sleep quallity is nowhere near where it needs to be. Once I get on TRT hopefully that resolves. Once I excel in my field with time I will be able to do it around different hours (most likely) or will have to change country to support the timeframe that is compatible to my sleep patterns. It's this way around and not the other way in my life. You have any good, fact-based reading regarding the sleep/disease/health issue to share?

 

[Belekas]

What if you can't sleep well because you're hypogonadal and you need testosterone to get better sleep?

View attachment 24582

I'm betting on it and looking forward to have a lot of restfull, deep, rejuvenating sleep once medicated.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

I get your point but society has nothing to do here it's my choice and this is what I do and been doing for years. Thats why I prefer to be in top shape, have my nutrition, stress and recovery protocols nailed as much as possible. Now I do sleep but not as much as required but the sleep quallity is nowhere near where it needs to be. Once I get on TRT hopefully that resolves. Once I excel in my field with time I will be able to do it around different hours (most likely) or will have to change country to support the timeframe that is compatible to my sleep patterns. It's this way around and not the other way in my life. You have any good, fact-based reading regarding the sleep/disease/health issue to share?

I appreciate that you have your reasons and that options are sometimes limited. I just hope to convince you that it may be worth getting out sooner than later, and perhaps worth taking a pay cut as an example, in order to work normal hours.

This topic was the cause of many arguments in my household because my wife is an ICU nurse and enjoyed working second shift and the extra incentive pay that came along with it. I eventually persuaded her that the money wasn't worth her health.

Here are a few recent studies:

Shift and Night Work and All-Cause and Cause-Specific Mortality: Prospective Results From the STRESSJEM Study - PubMed

The literature remains sparse and inconclusive about the impact of shift and night work on mortality, and still more on specific causes of death. The objectives were to explore the prospective associations between exposure to shift and night work and all-cause and cause-specific mortality. The...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Rotating Night Shift Work and Healthy Aging After 24 Years of Follow-up in the Nurses' Health Study - PubMed

In this cohort study, rotating night shift work was associated with decreased probability of healthy aging among US female nurses. These data support the notion that excess night shift work is a significant health concern that may also lead to deteriorated overall health among older individuals.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Associations of shift work and night work with risk of all-cause, cardiovascular and cancer mortality: a meta-analysis of cohort studies - PubMed

Night work may be associated with higher risk of all-cause, cardiovascular and cancer mortality, suggesting that night workers compared with daytime workers may be at higher risk of death, especially due to cardiovascular disease.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Belekas]

Well that just doesn't work that way in my business. I appreciate the concern though and can def agree that not enough quality sleep is detrimental for our health. Will be going through the articles once I'm back home. Oh and my girl works similar like yours and does night shifts but started asking for more day shifts as def feels better

Regards

 

[Belekas]

I wonder how lean is too lean maintained all year. I've spent around 5 months in calorie deficit with some free meals here and there and came down 8kg to pretty leanish looking jacked fella i'm guessing 10-12% bf, probably 10% on a good day lol and I maintained that working at night with sleeping less then I'm supposed to. With weight loss all hormones tank as I understand so that makes me think by how much they tank compared to the normal state. Because basically I did my blood test right at the end of the diet-phase during a diet-break with incrasead food. Maybe it doesn't matter that much, maybe the calorie restricion for prolonged periods say deficit for 5-12 months does add weight and tank testosterone or other hormone and if it does then by how much?

 

[Rabbit91476]

Honey moon was great. Have a woman ready. I don’t recall testo flu when I started. But when I went from 150mg to 200 I did. Smack dab in the middle of COVID. Work thought I had COVID and sent me home for 2 days

 

[Belekas]

Honey moon was great. Have a woman ready. I don’t recall testo flu when I started. But when I went from 150mg to 200 I did. Smack dab in the middle of COVID. Work thought I had COVID and sent me home for 2 days

Good to hear but what this has to do with my thread over here?

 

[Belekas]

Update on pre TRT progress.

Stopped tracking calories precisely and eat as much as I want basically healthy, wholefoods with some treats here and there. Reduced training to 3x/week. Already up 3kg. Feeling a lot better, sleeping alot better, been avoiding headaches as well for what its worth. I'm very interested how much did my hormones tank being in the deficit, fit, probably 10-12% bf pretty much year round. I probably was too lean as theres a kid getting ready for BB comp in my gym, hes like 3 weeks out, and I looked a lot way more peeled, basically every day with working nights, with my recovery in the shitter and restricting calories for half a year probably more less with some refeeds/cheats here and there. This is a very interesting topic and we will see what happens as I'm still waiting for my Sustanon to arrive. At the moment feeling a lot better and will continue going this way and gaining weight as I have a feeling I went in the zone where I don't function well at all and stayed there for too long considering huge stressfull environment, working nights etc etc.

But to be fair with my 65 SHGB and below range crashed FT and E2 I don't think any dietary changes or training changes will impact a lot as I'm fit, lean, do cardio, and yet not much benefit as I feel wrecked doing all that is required. I might be wrong as this stuff is complicated and unique af so lets see what happens. I've been testosterone free for the last 3 years and would be cool to stay that longer but with recent blood test results and symptoms most likely that won't happen as I need to optimize my health to pursuit my carreer and my vision.

So lets see what happens and maybe I'll do one more blood test EOM with more food, less training and supposedly better sleep/recovery.

Have a great day everyone,
Best Regards.

 

[Belekas]

Will add some Boron and Zinc with Cooper to try and lower SHGB. Doubled on the healthy fats. Will try to do venous blood test in a couple months and see how my hormones are looking. The one I used for this test was finger prick one and I hear they are notorious for errors, so you know.Been too long in the deficit and being natural thats the last thing to do if you want to keep your FT as high as possible IMO. Deficit, overtraining and undersleeping- the main components to getting fucked. On the flipside my BP improved as I leaned down from 80kg to 73kg but staying at 73kg and living life doing what I need to do is unsustainable for me or else I want to live with low T which in itself is detrimental from all the studies i've seen. So lets see what a couple months of eating a higher fat diet, trying to rest as much as possible and 3/4x training per week will do.

Also been looking into those supps that Huberman recommended during his podcast to raise FT/TT like Tongat Ali and Fadogia Agrestis but think the science still weak on them so will wait to see if they live up to the hype.

Anyone have any recommendations what else to use to try and lower SHBG naturally are more then welcome

Hope everyone having a smashing day!
Regards,
Bel

 

[Belekas]

Got 30ml of Sustanon250 from pharmacy waiting. Never did Sustanon, always was on Enanthate so will be interesting to see how I do once and IF my blood tests comes back deficient again when I do them in a couple of months and venous this time not from finger prick as I hear they are not to be trusted.

Currently taking 10mg Boron, multi vitamin, vitamin C, vitamin D, 2x week vitamin E and 2-3 times week Zinc 50mg. Also Omega3 fish oil at least 3500mg total EPA+DHT daily fwiw.

The damn blood tests in the UK are expensive and problematic as where I live I have to order nurse to come home and drain me, they have no walk-in clinics to get that sorted proper way without sending samples by post etc. So paying around 200gbp every 2-3 months when checking labs is tough on the budget so trying to make least blood tests with most needed blood markers to save a buck or two. Ofc when talking about life long treatment labs are essential and must be done the proper way to know the pre treatment baselines etc.

Lets see what the future holds. Hope everyone has a great and productive week!
Lets get it!

 

[Charliebizz]

I didn't experience one. I also quit drinking coffee at the same time as I was starting though. Withdrawal from a 25 year caffeine habit is probably a sure-fire way to prevent a TRT honeymoon.

How long have you been off caffeine. I’m closing in on 4 months. Still feel worse being off it then on lol. Quitting coffee has helped my gut issues a ton. But other then that no caffeine hasn’t been great lol

 

[Charliebizz]

Got 30ml of Sustanon250 from pharmacy waiting. Never did Sustanon, always was on Enanthate so will be interesting to see how I do once and IF my blood tests comes back deficient again when I do them in a couple of months and venous this time not from finger prick as I hear they are not to be trusted.

Currently taking 10mg Boron, multi vitamin, vitamin C, vitamin D, 2x week vitamin E and 2-3 times week Zinc 50mg. Also Omega3 fish oil at least 3500mg total EPA+DHT daily fwiw.

The damn blood tests in the UK are expensive and problematic as where I live I have to order nurse to come home and drain me, they have no walk-in clinics to get that sorted proper way without sending samples by post etc. So paying around 200gbp every 2-3 months when checking labs is tough on the budget so trying to make least blood tests with most needed blood markers to save a buck or two. Ofc when talking about life long treatment labs are essential and must be done the proper way to know the pre treatment baselines etc.

Lets see what the future holds. Hope everyone has a great and productive week!
Lets get it!

I do wonder how your t levels would have looked if you weren’t in a calorie deficit. For a guy like me that would fuck with my head. For me personally putting on weight and not staying lean did nothing for my t levels. However I also wasn’t nearly as in good shape “looks” wise as you are/were.

 

[Belekas]

I do wonder how your t levels would have looked if you weren’t in a calorie deficit. For a guy like me that would fuck with my head. For me personally putting on weight and not staying lean did nothing for my t levels. However I also wasn’t nearly as in good shape “looks” wise as you are/were.

Cheers mate. Yeah it does fuck with my head but over the years I found a method in the madness how to approach such stuff else with all overthinking, overanalysing, stressing, etc, etc my health just says fuck off. I wanted to go even lower body fat and live there but after doing that blood test and seeing my levels in the shitter I stopped. They say get lean that is good for your health right? In my situation that was detrimental for my health. Strength, libido, brain fog, headaches and mostly probably what pisses me off the most is the bone/joint health. Feelling like an old man when doing chest with 80kg lol, everything hurts and doesn't recover at all fwiw. Used to work on bench with 160kg and zero pain when was running 250mg of test. Anyway like you said, I'm also very interested how my hormonal panel will look in a couple of months eating higher fat and pretty much not counting anything. 2 months might not be enough as I was walking very lean for like 2-3 years so might need more time, will see. Anyway if them levels will still be borderline low I'm ready to start TRT but will go low dosage this time and work from there. If I can maintain, get symptom relief and my blood markers will look good then happy days but if I will struggle with things like elevated BP or HC (as I can't donate) most likely I will come off and forget about it so time will tell.

 

[Charliebizz]

Cheers mate. Yeah it does fuck with my head but over the years I found a method in the madness how to approach such stuff else with all overthinking, overanalysing, stressing, etc, etc my health just says fuck off. I wanted to go even lower body fat and live there but after doing that blood test and seeing my levels in the shitter I stopped. They say get lean that is good for your health right? In my situation that was detrimental for my health. Strength, libido, brain fog, headaches and mostly probably what pisses me off the most is the bone/joint health. Feelling like an old man when doing chest with 80kg lol, everything hurts and doesn't recover at all fwiw. Used to work on bench with 160kg and zero pain when was running 250mg of test. Anyway like you said, I'm also very interested how my hormonal panel will look in a couple of months eating higher fat and pretty much not counting anything. 2 months might not be enough as I was walking very lean for like 2-3 years so might need more time, will see. Anyway if them levels will still be borderline low I'm ready to start TRT but will go low dosage this time and work from there. If I can maintain, get symptom relief and my blood markers will look good then happy days but if I will struggle with things like elevated BP or HC (as I can't donate) most likely I will come off and forget about it so time will tell.

Oh ok. So your not doing trt yet!! That’s good you will at least be able to write it off if your levels don’t budge when you put on some weight. I know for me I personally feel better with a bit more fat then I like ! It sucks. But every time I try and get lean a lot of my old symptoms come back even while on trt. I also think I might be under-dosed on trt but like you I want to make sure my blood markers and bp stay good,so I tend to shy away from raising dose

 

[FunkOdyssey]

How long have you been off caffeine. I’m closing in on 4 months. Still feel worse being off it then on lol. Quitting coffee has helped my gut issues a ton. But other then that no caffeine hasn’t been great lol

I've been off six weeks and feeling pretty decent. I'm not feeling as good as I did on caffeine but better than I did at this point last time I quit, which I attribute to TRT.

The physical withdrawal symptoms resolve pretty quickly but the mental symptoms, including low mood, difficulty concentrating, lack of motivation, anxiety, etc can persist for many months. I've seen many reports that it took a year or longer for full recovery.

The idea that it could take over a year to recover from a caffeine habit is completely foreign to most people. Typically, people try quitting, discover they still feel crappy after the 1-2 weeks they were told withdrawal is supposed to take, conclude they must require caffeine to feel good, and start again. People spend entire lifetimes on it for this reason. The longest I've made it in the past was about four months before falling off the wagon due to this sort of thinking.

I should probably start a new thread about this but mendelian randomization studies suggest the only real benefits of coffee drinking are reduced risk of gallstones and kidney stones. The rest of the purported benefits are a mirage of associations that aren't causal. What it does do is shrink your gray matter volume and increase your risk of osteoarthritis among other harms.

So, I would encourage you to remain caffeine-free after making it this far. Check out the decaf subreddit for inspiration and countless examples of year+ long recoveries:

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com