Trans scrotal testosterone cream application is a game changer

[sh1973]

I stand by what I said and apologize if someone’s offended. If you can run 1500ng or higher and all is well, so be it. If you’re having to donate blood, have high blood pressure, severe acne and taking a plethora of drugs to counteract the side effects, that isn’t healthy. I can’t see how any rational person could think such. I’ve seen so many men over the years start out on high doses, feel like shit, back down the dose and start to feel better. I’m by no means stating absolutes and realize we’re all different. I’ve seen guys over the years push their HDL levels into the low 30s by using high doses. We as men on trt should always advocate caution and sensibility especially when newer guys come on here asking advice. I make no apology for expressing caution and anyone taking any medication should do so with caution. Mad man you’ve instilled in me more than ever that higher levels aren’t needed, especially by enlightening us on the tru t calculator. I have shbg of 70 which is high and even at 1000ng I’m at the top of the range using the tru t calculator. No matter what endeavor one takes in life, safety should be first and foremost.

 

[bbex2014]

How are all my creamers out there doing?

 

[SSHSSA74]

Want to try it soon. Fist I’ll add it to cyp. If stil not good results, I’ll try solely cream at different amounts. Just not getting libido I need on 12mg cyp/ day.

I’ve tried all kinds of regiments. Had pretty good results with cyp/prop blend awhile back, but not great. might try that again too.

Is the cream still working well for you?

First....

 

[Gman86]

Been on the cream for about 2 months now. It’s been alright I guess. Feels about the same as when I was on injections, just lower libido surprisingly. Thought it would be the opposite.

Only thing I can think that’s causing it is my E2 not being high enough. High DHT minimizes the effects of E2, from my understanding. I think I require quite a bit of E2 for libido. Whenever my libido was best on injections I’m pretty sure my E2 was always pretty high. Like 70 or higher. Haven’t had it checked in the cream yet. Just been checking total and free T every week or two with discountedlabs $35 test

 

[Tman]

So I was on injections of Testosterone cyp for almost 4 years before switching over to scrotal testosterone cream application. Let me tell you it has been absolutely amazing how much better I feel on the cream verses the injections. I dose it at 150 mg daily (3 clicks), 50 mg in the morning before bed (I work nights) and 100 mg about an hour before I leave for work at night. I was doing daily sub q injections for the past couple years, 20 mg cyp daily. I felt good on that protocol, but this blows that protocol out of the water. I messed up and did labs about 2 hours after my application and everything came back out of range, with free t at 48. I would encourage anyone interested to give the scrotal t-cream application a go, I can't see myself ever going back to injections.

I thought you were supposed to check the levels 1 to 2 hours after dosing?

 

[SSHSSA74]

So I was on injections of Testosterone cyp for almost 4 years before switching over to scrotal testosterone cream application. Let me tell you it has been absolutely amazing how much better I feel on the cream verses the injections. I dose it at 150 mg daily (3 clicks), 50 mg in the morning before bed (I work nights) and 100 mg about an hour before I leave for work at night. I was doing daily sub q injections for the past couple years, 20 mg cyp daily. I felt good on that protocol, but this blows that protocol out of the water. I messed up and did labs about 2 hours after my application and everything came back out of range, with free t at 48. I would encourage anyone interested to give the scrotal t-cream application a go, I can't see myself ever going back to injections.

Are you still feeling great on cream?

 

[Bryan_K77]

I thought you were supposed to check the levels 1 to 2 hours after dosing?

4-5 hours per Keith Nichols. There is a research paper out there that displays this info, too lazy to post it now. 2 or 3 hours might be peak levels, I’m not sure off top of my head

 

[Patlamenace]

You still caught up on you supposedly having to run these absurd TT/FT levels to feel your best so you say?

When in fact although your TT/FT levels from your most recent results:

I started on 3 clicks am to the knees, 3 clicks to my inner forearms. Wanted to see if I could get my levels up with the cream, while not letting DHT go insanely high. Here were my labs on that protocol, 5 hours after am application.

10-5-19
Total T- 817 ng/dl (264-916)
Free T- 19.9 pg/ml (8.7-25.1)


Had you stating in the other thread that you do not feel anywhere near as good as when your TT 1600+ ng/dl and FT 50-60 ng/dL (double the top end of the reference range TruT calculated).....and I replied telling you that first off you have only been on the scrotal application running such TT/FT levels for 2 weeks and although T levels will build up/stabilize much quicker when using transdermal application whether gel/cream one needs to give it 2-3 months at new said T level to truly gauge how you feel.

As you should know by now not only are T levels in FLUX when switching a protocol (increasing/decreasing dose) but MOST IMPORTANTLY once blood levels have stabilized it will take at least 2-3 months at the new T levels for the body to adapt.....let alone TRULY gauge how one feels overall at said TT/FT levels regarding relief/improvement of low-t symptoms and increased overall well-being.

Let's top this off with the fact that the whole time you have been on trt (few years) you were running absurdly high TT 1800 ng/FT 60+ng/dL levels at one time.....claiming you needed such due to your high SHBG as you were relying on the piss poor direct immunoassay results when testing your FT......when in fact if you should have been using the most accurate testing method such as the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration (next best). Than you would have known that your FT level was absurdly high.

This was well before the everyone on the forum understood the importance of using the most accurate testing methods for FT such as the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration (next best).....let alone the more recent research/understanding of SHBG:T binding and the use of the newer TruT model/algorithm.

You eventually went from running absurdly high TT/FT levels (1800 ng/dL/FT 60+ ng/dL well over double top end reference range TruT calculated).....only than to eventually try running slightly lower TT/FT levels (1600 ng/dL/FT 50-60 ng/dL basically double top end reference range TruT calculated).....and this is even after I pointed out the fact that your TT/FT trough levels are still absurdly high even with your somewhat higher SHBG.....using the newer calculated TruT method.

Now you are claiming that the way you feel overall when running a TT 1600 ng/dL/FT 50-60 ng/dL basically double the top end of the reference range TruT calculated) is like night/day compared to your most recent numbers using the transdermal cream TT 817 ng/dL/FT 30 ng/dL top end of the reference range TruT calculated).

Again the whole time you have been on trt you have basically been running absurd TT/FT levels as you have never truly given your body a fighting chance to see how you would truly feel overall running lower levels ) at least 2-3 months!

Let alone the most recent labs having your TT 817 ng/dL/FT 30 ng/dL top end of the reference range TruT calculated).....you were only 2 weeks in and already complaining.

Even if you ran such levels for 2-3 months and than could turn around and say you truly do not feel your best overall.....if anything it would be much more sensible to try running slightly higher TT 1200 ng/dL/FT high 30's ng/dL) for 2-3 months to truly gauge how you feel overall instead of claiming you need to run a TT 1600+ ng/dL/FT 50-60 ng/dL (double the top end of the reference range TruT calculated).

Reading through all your previous post since you have come on Excel you have struggled running those absurdly high levels, hematocrit among other things and you very well know your thyroid was not optimal!

What you are stating on here about needing to run these absurd TT/FT levels to feel your best is misleading as I stated before if you are not willing to give your new protocol using the transdermal cream that had your TT 817 ng/dL/FT 30s (top end of the reference range TruT calculated) at least 2-3 months to truly gauge how you feel overall.....let alone try a protocol running slightly higher TT 1200 ng/dL/FT high 30's for 2-3 months than stating you need to run a TT 1600+ ng/dL/FT 50-60 ng/dL is pure quackery!


Now after only being on the transdermal cream for 2 weeks or little over you just went and f***d it up again claiming you need to run these absurd TT 1600+/FT 50-60 ng/dL to feel your best:

Since then, I started applying 2 of the clicks in the am to my scrotum, and 1 click to back of the knees, and then all 3 clicks in pm to my forearms. Will be getting bloodwork again this upcoming week. My goal is to get my free T up where I know I feel my best. I usually need my total T around 1600+ to get my free t where I like it. So I have a ways to go. But my plan is to just apply one more of the clicks per day to my scrotum, until I get where I want to be numbers wise, and symptom resolution wise, while sticking to 300mg/ day. Just want to find the minimum amount of cream it takes applied to my scrotum to get my total and free where I want it.

[/QUOTE]
Do you know if with an ester like undecaonate it will be even longer to stabilise?i went from Intra muscular t’twice a week to intramuscular it’s been a few weeks and I really feel bad at the moment.no enery bad sleep anxious and penis is really smaller when flacid no nucturnal etection and cannt get hard

 

[Patlamenace]

Do you know if with an ester like undecaonate it will be even longer to stabilise?i went from Intra muscular t’twice a week to intramuscular it’s been a few weeks and I really feel bad at the moment.no enery bad sleep anxious and penis is really smaller when flacid no nucturnal etection and cannt get hard
[/QUOTE]
*intramuscular twice a week to daily subcutaneous

 

[madman]

Do you know if with an ester like undecaonate it will be even longer to stabilise?i went from Intra muscular t’twice a week to intramuscular it’s been a few weeks and I really feel bad at the moment.no enery bad sleep anxious and penis is really smaller when flacid no nucturnal etection and cannt get hard

*intramuscular twice a week to daily subcutaneous
[/QUOTE]




Anytime you tweak a protocol (dose of T/injection frequency) it will take time for levels to balance out and even longer for the body to adapt to the new levels.

This is not an ester I am fond of especially when it comes down to tweaking a protocol (dose/injection frequency) from the standard protocol prescribed for such.

Blood levels take a long time to stabilize and if you run into any issues along the way this can be unpleasant, to say the least.

Why are you now switching from twice weekly to daily?

Do you not have access to Sustanon in your country?

When you were injecting twice-weekly what was the dose of T and how long did you stay on such protocol?

Any recent blood work to post?

Help me dial in my protocol Nebido

I most certainly will. Btw. my T3 and T4 have always been very low. I do now, more than ever, want to take a closer look on those levels and see if they have contributed to me not feeling "optimal". Any thoughts?

www.excelmale.com

 

[Patlamenace]

At the moment I cannot have anything else than undecaonate,I wish I could tho .i have been for several month on a dose around equivalent to 138 mg of énantate.i had issues due to e2(in my opinion) I only have access to éclia méthode here,no sensitive test I was in the high normal range. To my knowledge increasing frequency is supposed to lower e2 that’s why I switched and I tried sub q because i was scared of scare tissue due to every day injection in the long run.i hope I make sens English is not my motherlanguage.maybe I should have tried 3 every other day intra muscular.i m a bit lost dunno If I should stick with sub q for a period of time .the thing I do not understand is since I already was on nebido for years does the medication have to build up again from switching to sub q ?like when I started the medication?

 

[Tman]

I made the switch about 3 months ago. I know that is a very small personal sample size, but I really can't believe how good I feel on this protocol.

Are you still on here? Wondering how you are doing with the cream...lots of cream haters on this site, but I am thinking about switching as the injections have not helped.

 

[Charliebizz]

Are you still on here? Wondering how you are doing with the cream...lots of cream haters on this site, but I am thinking about switching as the injections have not helped.

From my personal experience I wasn’t able to give t cream a real run because I feel like it skyrocketed my levels. So I had some unwelcome side effects. But holy shit does it work for libido and erections. Me and my wife been together since we are 16 and the few weeks I was on the cream was the most insane are sex life has ever been. We put a little on her also and holy hell man. I’m messing around adding the cream with injections every now and then for the sexual benefits.I’m not sure I’ll be able to figure out how to take it every day along with my injections and get the benefits with out the sides though.

 

[RobRoy]

From my personal experience I wasn’t able to give t cream a real run because I feel like it skyrocketed my levels. So I had some unwelcome side effects. But holy shit does it work for libido and erections. Me and my wife been together since we are 16 and the few weeks I was on the cream was the most insane are sex life has ever been. We put a little on her also and holy hell man. I’m messing around adding the cream with injections every now and then for the sexual benefits.I’m not sure I’ll be able to figure out how to take it every day along with my injections and get the benefits with out the sides though.

Did you ever think to just apply less so your levels didn't "skyrocket"?

 

[RobRoy]

See here for a related thread which gives an idea of my thoughts:

Scrotal TRT Cream Application - A Precautionary Tale

I appreciate your kind words bbex2014. Though I didn’t watch the podcast you referenced, the statement above that I bolded doesn’t offer any logical reasoning. It is the “blood” (serum) levels that are represented on lab work (often quite high as you’ll see in the referenced thread) not the intratesticular levels. I have trouble seeing how tightly regulated intratesticular DHT levels would negate or minimize any potential long-term consequences of very high serum (blood) DHT levels to which the entire body is exposed (systemic).

Its okay to be wrong

 

[Charliebizz]

Did you ever think to just apply less so your levels didn't "skyrocket"?

I did and the benefits went away. I will admit though I didn’t give it long enough. The second time around. The first time I tried the cream I was doing 1 click back of knees and one scrotal. Didn’t feel that great on it. Second time I tired 2 clicks am 2 pm and it’s just way too much. Problem for me with transdermals is it seems to effect my mood negatively for a few hours after application. Like I’m just super angry over nothing.

 

[Jerajera]

Problem for me with transdermals is it seems to effect my mood negatively for a few hours after application. Like I’m just super angry over nothing.

That's probably DHT peaking, I've been feeling the same way a few hours after scrotal application of 2 clicks (100mg total) of 20% compounded cream. It's only been about a week so I'm going to give it more time, but so far I'm not feeling as good as I did on injections

 

[Charliebizz]

That's probably DHT peaking, I've been feeling the same way a few hours after scrotal application of 2 clicks (100mg total) of 20% compounded cream. It's only been about a week so I'm going to give it more time, but so far I'm not feeling as good as I did on injections

Yeah I have a real problem with “giving things time”. I don’t feel great in my injection only protocol. But I’m doing ok. So whenever things get worse I panic and go back to what I felt ok on. I started from a bad place so I get scared I’m going to go back to feeling that bad again

 

[Dr Justin Saya MD]

Its okay to be wrong

No one can claim the position of right or wrong when discussing persistent DHT levels several times the upper range of physiologic (as opposed to “modestly elevated” as discussed in article)…it has never been studied.

 

[RobRoy]

No one can claim the position of right or wrong when discussing persistent DHT levels several times the upper range of physiologic (as opposed to “modestly elevated” as discussed in article)…it has never been studied.

Oh but it has. Read article. Its also a paracrine hormone