Thyroid experiment complete

[Gman86]

Did a one month experiment to see whether a very low dose of thyroid medication would suppress my natural production completely, and leave me with very low thyroid levels due to my replacement dose being extremely low, or if the low dose NDT would just add to my natural endogenous levels. Turns out the ladder is mostly true. The low dose suppressed my natural levels ever so slightly, as evidenced by my slightly lower TSH. But overall, the 1/4 grain of NDT was enough to overcome the very slight suppression, and leave me with a net increase in free T3. I was also pleasantly surprised to see that my RT3 had come down slightly. Wasn’t expecting that. Was expecting it to increase slightly.

7-23-19
ON NOTHING for thyroid
T3 total - 106 (76-181)
T4 total - 6.0 (4.5-10.5)
Free T3 - 3.3 (2.3-4.2)
Free t4 - 1.0 (0.8-1.8)
Rt3 - 12 (8-25)
TSH - 0.78 (0.4-4.5)
Iron, Total - 173 (50-180)
Iron % saturation - 55% (15-60)
Iron Binding Capacity - 315 (250-425)
Ferritin - 30 (20-345)

8-28-19 On 1/4 grain WP thyroid ED in am for 1 month (LABS WERE TAKEN IN AM PRIOR TO TAKING MORNING DOSE. BASICALLY 24 HOURS AFTER LAST 1/4 GRAIN DOSE)
T3 total - 130 (76-181)
T4 total - 6.3 (4.5-10.5)
Free T3 - 3.9 (2.3-4.2)
Free t4 - 0.9 (0.8-1.8)
Rt3 - 9 (8-25)
TSH - 0.60 (0.4-4.5)
Iron, Total - 106 (50-180)
Iron % saturation - 37% (15-60)
Iron Binding Capacity - 285 (250-425)
Ferritin - 45 (20-345)

What would you guys recommend to do next? Just increase to 1/2 grain of WP thyroid? Just looking to increase free T3 a tiny bit more, and increase free T4 a little bit more, without increasing RT3 too much.

 

[Cataceous]

Interesting result. Do you notice any subjective differences?

 

[Gman86]

No subjective differences that I can tell.

 

[wondering]

No subjective differences that I can tell.

then why are you chasing numbers. How do you feel?

Interesting, your Iron is on high end with low Ferritin. I have same issue. Dr. Mariano used to always say Ferritin needs to be at 150 in men.

 

[Vince]

I don't think it's necessary to make any more adjustments to your thyroid meds. Your free T3 look excellent and your reverse T3 is also good.

 

[Gman86]

then why are you chasing numbers. How do you feel?

Interesting, your Iron is on high end with low Ferritin. I have same issue. Dr. Mariano used to always say Ferritin needs to be at 150 in men.

My basal temps are extremely low without thyroid medication. There around 96.2. I also have some lethargy/ fatigue and a ton of brain fog. Just trying to optimize my thyroid completely, and if it doesn’t improve the fatigue and brain fog, I can at least rule it about and focus on other areas. Process of elimination basically.

My basal temp has gone up to around 97.0, but brain fog and fatigue haven’t budged.

Ya there’s a ton of iron in my diet between eating red meat daily and taking beef liver capsules daily. I get blood work done too often. So my ferritin stays relatively low. This is the highest it’s been in a long time though, so that’s good. 150 is probably as high as a guy should strive for though. I think ideal ferritin is around 70-130 range.

 

[Gman86]

I don't think it's necessary to make any more adjustments to your thyroid meds. Your free T3 look excellent and your reverse T3 is also good.

That’s a good point Vince. It’s never good to get greedy. I would like my basal temp to continue increasing though. It’s around 97.0 lately. Would really like it closer to 98.0

 

[wondering]

I would say...everyone talks about T3 and FT3 and thats fine. But personally, I never feel good (depression especially) if my FT4 was as low as yours. even 1.1, 1.2, I have bumped it up with a little Levothyroxine and helps immensely.

 

[Gman86]

I would say...everyone talks about T3 and FT3 and thats fine. But personally, I never feel good (depression especially) if my FT4 was as low as yours. even 1.1, 1.2, I have bumped it up with a little Levothyroxine and helps immensely.

Oh wow, thanks for reporting you’re experience with this! Obviously everyone is different, but I’m definitely going to keep your anecdotal experience in mind. Thanks again.

 

[Gman86]

Just curious, where do you like your free T4 to sit?

 

[wondering]

I'm better at 1.4ish.

But we need to be careful about looking a tenth of a point and saying I need to move from 1.3 to 1.4 etc. If you don't feel good and have symptoms, it may be worth a try. If you don't have symptoms then leave it alone.

 

[Marco N Cognito]

My basal temps are extremely low without thyroid medication. There around 96.2. I also have some lethargy/ fatigue and a ton of brain fog. Just trying to optimize my thyroid completely, and if it doesn’t improve the fatigue and brain fog, I can at least rule it about and focus on other areas. Process of elimination basically.

My basal temp has gone up to around 97.0, but brain fog and fatigue haven’t budged.

Ya there’s a ton of iron in my diet between eating red meat daily and taking beef liver capsules daily. I get blood work done too often. So my ferritin stays relatively low. This is the highest it’s been in a long time though, so that’s good. 150 is probably as high as a guy should strive for though. I think ideal ferritin is around 70-130 range.

How often do you get labs drawn and how many tubes would you say? If your RBC, HCT and HGB and iron are in range then your low ferritin could be due to other issues (e.g. methylation defects, taking too much NAC or tumeric that bind to iron and cause low ferritin). Hypothyroidism itself can cause low ferritin (your level increased after taking .25grain NDT). There's also what's called Hypoferritinemia without Anemia HWA: Hypoferritinemia without anemia a hidden hematology disorder. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[Gman86]

How often do you get labs drawn and how many tubes would you say? If your RBC, HCT and HGB and iron are in range then your low ferritin could be due to other issues (e.g. methylation defects, taking too much NAC or tumeric that bind to iron and cause low ferritin). Hypothyroidism itself can cause low ferritin (your level increased after taking .25grain NDT). There's also what's called Hypoferritinemia without Anemia HWA: Hypoferritinemia without anemia a hidden hematology disorder. - PubMed - NCBI

I get labs drawn probably at least 5 times per year, and get about 8 tubes drawn each time. I’m pretty sure that my ferritin is on the lower side due to getting labs done too frequently. Could possibly be a methylation issue. I plan on getting 23 and me done at some point to find out. But I honestly think it’s just due to getting labs drawn too often. I don’t take NAC or turmeric. Didn’t know NAC blinded to iron, but I was aware about turmeric, and purposely avoid it for that reason. And ya RBC, HCT and HGB are all good.

 

[Marco N Cognito]

I get labs drawn probably at least 5 times per year, and get about 8 tubes drawn each time. I’m pretty sure that my ferritin is on the lower side due to getting labs done too frequently. Could possibly be a methylation issue. I plan on getting 23 and me done at some point to find out. But I honestly think it’s just due to getting labs drawn too often. I don’t take NAC or turmeric. Didn’t know NAC blinded to iron, but I was aware about turmeric, and purposely avoid it for that reason. And ya RBC, HCT and HGB are all good.

Yikes, I'm in big trouble:
Are we causing anemia by ordering unnecessary blood tests?

I just had 60 tubes pulled the other day and am more frequent than you. Usually am at 15-20, but still. Need to max out on the iron supps, as there's no way to get enough from food alone.

 

[Gman86]

Yikes, I'm in big trouble:
Are we causing anemia by ordering unnecessary blood tests?

I just had 60 tubes pulled the other day and am more frequent than you. Usually am at 15-20, but still. Need to max out on the iron supps, as there's no way to get enough from food alone.

60 tubes?!?!?!?!?!? I used to get 35 labs done at one time, and they only would draw like 10 tubes I think. How many labs are you getting done?!? And your insurance covers them all?

 

[Sean Mosher]

I'd titrate up slowly like you are doing.
If your symptoms aren't gone then there's definitely room to improve your FT3.
Don't chase numbers ;-)

 

[Marco N Cognito]

60 tubes?!?!?!?!?!? I used to get 35 labs done at one time, and they only would draw like 10 tubes I think. How many labs are you getting done?!? And your insurance covers them all?

It's about 45 labs. Insurance will cover most.

 

[Gman86]

It's about 45 labs. Insurance will cover most.

Holy sht. That’s only 10 more labs but it’s 50 more tubes of blood than what I used to have drawn. You sure they aren’t taking extra blood and selling it on the black market or something? Lol

 

[Marco N Cognito]

Holy sht. That’s only 10 more labs but it’s 50 more tubes of blood than what I used to have drawn. You sure they aren’t taking extra blood and selling it on the black market or something? Lol

For some reason, they were smaller tubes on this one.

 

[Gman86]

For some reason, they were smaller tubes on this one.

Oh ok that can make sense I guess.