Thinking of quitting TRT

[Gunner@1911]

So I have been on 100ml of testosterone cypionate once a week for almost a year now.

I had bloodwork just shy of a month ago and all my numbers looked really good. Free testosterone was a little high but everything else was within normal ranges.

I also take a 5mg of Tadalafil daily for ED which seems to work well most of the time.

The issue Im having is I really dont feel any better then before I started TRT. I still suffer from a lot of fatigue. Seems to take forever to overcome doing anything strenuous. Muscle soreness for days.
The other issue is cost. If it isnt going to make me feel any better I dont want to keep paying for it. Especially with all the possible side effects.

Im 56 years old and in fairly decent shape. 5'6" 153lbs. I dont think I should feel this rough all the damn time? I mean I know they say as we get older we hurt more but damn!

I my father is 93 and still alive! If I feel like this all the time I cant imagine how he must feel based on the premise of older = more pain.

What should I do? Anyone have stories of stopping TRT?

Thanks, Dave

 

[Systemlord]

So I have been on 100ml of testosterone cypionate once a week for almost a year now.

Weekly dosing is not optimal for everyone due to the large difference between peak and trough which can cause problems for some men, making treatment less effective. You have to experiment with your injection, frequency and dosing to find out what works best for you.

I was a non-responder to injections once and twice weekly, even with high hormone levels at trough, but I responded to every other day and daily injections at lower levels.

You need to power forward and find out what is causing your remaining issues, because TRT is not a panacea. You have to work through the problem until it is resolved.

I would start with a vitamin and mineral panel, including ferritin.

You need to include more lab testing, estrogen, hematocrit, hemoglobin and CBC.

 

[Systemlord]

I had bloodwork just shy of a month ago and all my numbers looked really good. Free testosterone was a little high but everything else was within normal ranges.

The normal ranges have nothing to do with quality of life. You provided no context at all, lab testing in relation to your injections. If you are doing lab testing three days after your injections versus seven days after, your results are going to be dramatically different!

 

[Phil Goodman]

First thing that jumps out to me would be to check thyroid levels.

 

[Gman86]

@Gunner@1911 how many mgs of test are u taking per week? Ur obv not taking 100ml/ well. Did u mean 100mg/ week?

 

[BigBamBoo]

Sounds like you prescribing doctor/clinic has no idea how to properly administer TRT.

As mentioned, once a week is an antiquated protocol for the most part.

And 100mg is a pretty low dose.

For me, I want my symptoms to be treated, not numbers.

And "good lab numbers" don't mean anything.

In fact, due to the continuing decline in testosterone levels in males, the lab range keeps going down.

You need to find a doctor/clinic that actually knows what they are doing.

M9st GP or even you local endocrinologist probably are not up to speed on current treatment.

Example...the local endocrinologist here treats low T with pellets only.
Will not prescribe injections.

A quick way to know if your doctor knows his stuff is by the labs their order.

At a MINIMUM it should include:

Total AND free T
SHBG
LH
FSH

Again...that would be the bare minimum.

You will probably have to pay out of pocket to get the right treatment.

TRT can be very frustrating if you ate not receiving the correct treatment.

Good luck.

 

[madman]

So I have been on 100ml of testosterone cypionate once a week for almost a year now.

I had bloodwork just shy of a month ago and all my numbers looked really good. Free testosterone was a little high but everything else was within normal ranges.

I also take a 5mg of Tadalafil daily for ED which seems to work well most of the time.

The issue Im having is I really dont feel any better then before I started TRT. I still suffer from a lot of fatigue. Seems to take forever to overcome doing anything strenuous. Muscle soreness for days.
The other issue is cost. If it isnt going to make me feel any better I dont want to keep paying for it. Especially with all the possible side effects.

Im 56 years old and in fairly decent shape. 5'6" 153lbs. I dont think I should feel this rough all the damn time? I mean I know they say as we get older we hurt more but damn!

I my father is 93 and still alive! If I feel like this all the time I cant imagine how he must feel based on the premise of older = more pain.

What should I do? Anyone have stories of stopping TRT?

Thanks, Dave

So I have been on 100ml of testosterone cypionate once a week for almost a year now.

I had bloodwork just shy of a month ago and all my numbers looked really good. Free testosterone was a little high but everything else was within normal ranges.

The issue Im having is I really dont feel any better then before I started TRT. I still suffer from a lot of fatigue. Seems to take forever to overcome doing anything strenuous. Muscle soreness for days.


You need to post your labs as we are shooting in the dark here!

Need to post your trough TT, FT, estradiol, let alone SHBG and CBC (complete blood count) which includes critical blood markers RBCs, hemoglobin and hematocrit.

Seeing as you are injecting once weekly (100 mg T) your true trough (lowest point) would be 7 days post-injection.

Where does your iron/ferritin sit and did you have a full thyroid panel done?

Keep in mind that although TT is important to know FT is what truly matters as it is the active unbound fraction of T responsible for the positive effects.

Although many may do well injecting once weekly the main downfall is that there will be a big difference in the peak--->trough and blood levels will not be as stable throughout the week which can result in what we call the roller coaster effect where T levels are highest (peak) 12-24 hrs post-injection, during the first few days only to be followed by much lower levels (depending on dose of T) come weeks end.

For some this can have a negative impact on energy, mood,l ibido,erectile function and recovery.

Even then depending on your weekly dose of T some men will be hitting too low a FT level by day 7 whereas others may end up hitting too high a FT level.

Your once weekly dose of T is not that high but even then hard to say where your trough FT truly sits as you never posted any labs other than stating your FT was high
but unfortunately we have no idea how many days post-injection blood work was done.

You would most likely fair better splitting your weekly dose which will allow you to clip the peak--->trough and maintain more stable blood levels throughout the week.

Need to see where your true trough FT (7 days post-injection) truly sits before deciding on what may need to be done here.

Most men on TTh are injecting 100-200 mg T/week.

The majority of men can easily hit a healthy/high trough FT injecting 100-150 mg T/week especially when split into more frequent injections.

Yes some outliers may need the higher-end dose 200 mg T/week but it is far from common as in RARE!

 

[madman]

Sounds like you prescribing doctor/clinic has no idea how to properly administer TRT.

As mentioned, once a week is an antiquated protocol for the most part.

And 100mg is a pretty low dose.

For me, I want my symptoms to be treated, not numbers.

And "good lab numbers" don't mean anything.

In fact, due to the continuing decline in testosterone levels in males, the lab range keeps going down.

You need to find a doctor/clinic that actually knows what they are doing.

M9st GP or even you local endocrinologist probably are not up to speed on current treatment.

Example...the local endocrinologist here treats low T with pellets only.
Will not prescribe injections.

A quick way to know if your doctor knows his stuff is by the labs their order.

At a MINIMUM it should include:

Total AND free T
SHBG
LH
FSH

Again...that would be the bare minimum.

You will probably have to pay out of pocket to get the right treatment.

TRT can be very frustrating if you ate not receiving the correct treatment.

Good luck.

100 mg T is a common starting dose!

Although some are started on once weekly the more sensible/common injection protocol would be 100 mg T split into twice-weekly injections (50 mg T every 3.5 days).

Yes some men may end up with a less than stellar trough FT injecting 100 mg T once weekly but this is not a given!

Even then this can easily be remedied splitting up the weekly dose (100mg T) and injecting twice weekly (50 mg T every 3.5 days).

He did state.....So I have been on 100ml of testosterone cypionate once a week for almost a year now.

I had bloodwork just shy of a month ago and all my numbers looked really good. Free testosterone was a little high but everything else was within normal ranges.

The downfall here is we have no clue how many days post-injection his blood work was done!

Again he needs to post a full set of labs let alone testing method (ED/UF,,direct immunoassay, calculated)/reference ranges for free testosterone

 

[JayD]

So I have been on 100ml of testosterone cypionate once a week for almost a year now.

I had bloodwork just shy of a month ago and all my numbers looked really good. Free testosterone was a little high but everything else was within normal ranges.

I also take a 5mg of Tadalafil daily for ED which seems to work well most of the time.

The issue Im having is I really dont feel any better then before I started TRT. I still suffer from a lot of fatigue. Seems to take forever to overcome doing anything strenuous. Muscle soreness for days.
The other issue is cost. If it isnt going to make me feel any better I dont want to keep paying for it. Especially with all the possible side effects.

Im 56 years old and in fairly decent shape. 5'6" 153lbs. I dont think I should feel this rough all the damn time? I mean I know they say as we get older we hurt more but damn!

I my father is 93 and still alive! If I feel like this all the time I cant imagine how he must feel based on the premise of older = more pain.

What should I do? Anyone have stories of stopping TRT?

Thanks, Dave

I had these symptoms for over a year until I switched to daily subq injections with an insulin syringe. The fatigue and slow recovery and poor mood was horrible. I was ready to quit TRT aswell. Took around another 3-4 months on dailies before I felt the positive effects of TRT that people talk of. These positive effects sadly only lasted around 6 months, then felt off again. Added in Kisspeptin10 and feel great again(HCG did not agree with me) bonus was having my testicles and ejaculation volume back to pre TRT days. Definitely a marathon not a sprint trying to work this all out. All the best

 

[Gman86]

I had these symptoms for over a year until I switched to daily subq injections with an insulin syringe. The fatigue and slow recovery and poor mood was horrible. I was ready to quit TRT aswell. Took around another 3-4 months on dailies before I felt the positive effects of TRT that people talk of. These positive effects sadly only lasted around 6 months, then felt off again. Added in Kisspeptin10 and feel great again(HCG did not agree with me) bonus was having my testicles and ejaculation volume back to pre TRT days. Definitely a marathon not a sprint trying to work this all out. All the best

I’ve never researched kisspeptin. Can u give a brief overview of how it works, and what dose ur on, how many times u inject, and I assume u inject it subQ? Also, where do u get it from, if u don’t mind me asking

 

[MTNMan6000]

I had these symptoms for over a year until I switched to daily subq injections with an insulin syringe. The fatigue and slow recovery and poor mood was horrible. I was ready to quit TRT aswell. Took around another 3-4 months on dailies before I felt the positive effects of TRT that people talk of. These positive effects sadly only lasted around 6 months, then felt off again. Added in Kisspeptin10 and feel great again(HCG did not agree with me) bonus was having my testicles and ejaculation volume back to pre TRT days. Definitely a marathon not a sprint trying to work this all out. All the best

What is your dosage for Kisspeptin10?

 

[DixieWrecked]

I had these symptoms for over a year until I switched to daily subq injections with an insulin syringe. The fatigue and slow recovery and poor mood was horrible. I was ready to quit TRT aswell. Took around another 3-4 months on dailies before I felt the positive effects of TRT that people talk of. These positive effects sadly only lasted around 6 months, then felt off again. Added in Kisspeptin10 and feel great again(HCG did not agree with me) bonus was having my testicles and ejaculation volume back to pre TRT days. Definitely a marathon not a sprint trying to work this all out. All the best

And also what is your test dosage?

 

[JayD]

I’ve never researched kisspeptin. Can u give a brief overview of how it works, and what dose ur on, how many times u inject, and I assume u inject it subQ? Also, where do u get it from, if u don’t mind me asking

Yes its relatively new so not a lot on it. Stimulates LH and FSH opposed to HCG which just stimulates LH. I take 150mcg per week split into 50mcg Mon Wed Fri in a 0.3 insulin syringe. I bought my first vial from Lotus peptides in the UK, but now buy it directly from a lab in China.( Can PM you the details if you like)but you have to by a minimum of 10 vials, which price wise is equivalent to buying 2 vials from Lotus. At the start I had the normal hormonal rebalancing side effects which you have to push through for a few weeks. But nothing like HCG which I just found intolerable at any dose

Peptides Dosage Calculator | Peptides.org

The premier peptides dosage calculator on the interwebs. Here researcher's will be able to dial in any research chemical dosing needs with ease.

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Good tool to work out dosage

 

[JayD]

What is your dosage for Kisspeptin10? I take 150mcg per week split into 50mcg Mon Wed Fri in a 0.3 insulin syringe.

 

[JayD]

And also what is your test dosage?

8mg test cyp daily. TT 22 FT 620

 

[Gman86]

Yes its relatively new so not a lot on it. Stimulates LH and FSH opposed to HCG which just stimulates LH. I take 150mcg per week split into 50mcg Mon Wed Fri in a 0.3 insulin syringe. I bought my first vial from Lotus peptides in the UK, but now buy it directly from a lab in China.( Can PM you the details if you like)but you have to by a minimum of 10 vials, which price wise is equivalent to buying 2 vials from Lotus. At the start I had the normal hormonal rebalancing side effects which you have to push through for a few weeks. But nothing like HCG which I just found intolerable at any dose

Peptides Dosage Calculator | Peptides.org

The premier peptides dosage calculator on the interwebs. Here researcher's will be able to dial in any research chemical dosing needs with ease.

www.peptides.org

Good tool to work out dosage

Awesome thanks for the reply! So u can take kisspeptin 3 times a week? Thought the half life was ridiculously quick? Thought u had to take it a couple times a day?

Hcg doesn’t even stimulate the endogenous production of LH. It acts as an LH analogue. I like the fact that kisspeptin stimulates the endogenous production of both LH and FSH. Similar to clomid.

And ya I’ll take the china source if u don’t mind

 

[Gunner@1911]

So I have been on 100ml of testosterone cypionate once a week for almost a year now.

I had bloodwork just shy of a month ago and all my numbers looked really good. Free testosterone was a little high but everything else was within normal ranges.

The issue Im having is I really dont feel any better then before I started TRT. I still suffer from a lot of fatigue. Seems to take forever to overcome doing anything strenuous. Muscle soreness for days.


You need to post your labs as we are shooting in the dark here!

Need to post your trough TT, FT, estradiol, let alone SHBG and CBC (complete blood count) which includes critical blood markers RBCs, hemoglobin and hematocrit.

Seeing as you are injecting once weekly (100 mg T) your true trough (lowest point) would be 7 days post-injection.

Where does your iron/ferritin sit and did you have a full thyroid panel done?

Keep in mind that although TT is important to know FT is what truly matters as it is the active unbound fraction of T responsible for the positive effects.

Although many may do well injecting once weekly the main downfall is that there will be a big difference in the peak--->trough and blood levels will not be as stable throughout the week which can result in what we call the roller coaster effect where T levels are highest (peak) 12-24 hrs post-injection, during the first few days only to be followed by much lower levels (depending on dose of T) come weeks end.

For some this can have a negative impact on energy, mood,l ibido,erectile function and recovery.

Even then depending on your weekly dose of T some men will be hitting too low a FT level by day 7 whereas others may end up hitting too high a FT level.

Your once weekly dose of T is not that high but even then hard to say where your trough FT truly sits as you never posted any labs other than stating your FT was high
but unfortunately we have no idea how many days post-injection blood work was done.

You would most likely fair better splitting your weekly dose which will allow you to clip the peak--->trough and maintain more stable blood levels throughout the week.

Need to see where your true trough FT (7 days post-injection) truly sits before deciding on what may need to be done here.

Most men on TTh are injecting 100-200 mg T/week.

The majority of men can easily hit a healthy/high trough FT injecting 100-150 mg T/week especially when split into more frequent injections.

Yes some outliers may need the higher-end dose 200 mg T/week but it is far from common as in RARE!

Sorry for the late response, My results are below from my last blood test. Blood draw was the morning before my injection.

PSA-.83
Testosterone-622
Free Testosterone-29.4
Dihydrotesterone-361.2
SHBG-16
Estrodial-17B-34

100mg of testosterone cypinate once a week. I have noticed testicle shrinkage.
5mg daily of Tadalafil
Seem to be loosing sensitivity and takes forever to orgasm.

Any help is appreciated. Im really close to bailing on all of it.

 

[madman]

Sorry for the late response, My results are below from my last blood test. Blood draw was the morning before my injection.

PSA-.83
Testosterone-622
Free Testosterone-29.4
Dihydrotesterone-361.2
SHBG-16
Estrodial-17B-34

100mg of testosterone cypinate once a week. I have noticed testicle shrinkage.
5mg daily of Tadalafil
Seem to be loosing sensitivity and takes forever to orgasm.

Any help is appreciated. Im really close to bailing on all of it.

Not sure what method (calculated, direct immunoassay, ED/UF) was used for testing your FT as you never posted reference range.

Even then we can rely on the cFTV and with a robust trough (7 days post-injection) TT 622 ng/dL, low SHBG 16 nmol/L and Albumin 4.3 g/dL (default) your trough FT 18.8 ng/dL would be on the upper end for cFTV.

Healthy young male with normal SHBG would be hitting cFTV 13-15 ng/dL and this is at peak (highest point) early AM.

Shitkicker here is you are hitting a high-end trough FT (7 days post-injection) which means that your peak TT/FT will be much higher.

You would most likely fare better splitting your weekly doses into more frequent injections which will clip the peak--->trough and blood levels will be more stable throughout the week.

Even then as I stated previously you need to post your CBC (complete blood count) which includes critical blood markers RBCs, hemoglobin and hematocrit.

Again where does your iron/ferritin sit and did you have a full thyroid panel done?

 

[Gunner@1911]

Madman,

Im not sure what you mean by a lot of your comment due to me not understanding what all the acronyms are.
With that being said, my ranges on my paperwork are as follows:
PSA: Below 2.60ng/mL
Testosterone: 240-950ng/dL
Free Testosterone: 3.87-14.7ng/dL
Dihydrotestosterone: 106-716pg/mL
SHBG: 14-82nmol/L
Estradiol: 0-47pg/mL

RBC normal range 4.20-6.00 m/uL mine is 5.39
Hemoglobin normal range 13.0-17.0 g/dL
Hematocrit normal range 39.0-51.0% mine is 49.8

Hope this helps

 

[DixieWrecked]

8mg test cyp daily. TT 22 FT 620

Hey man. What are your fsh/LH numbers while on TRT with kisspeptin? Would be interesting to see where they sit since kisspeptin is supposed to stimulate their secretion