Deleted member 43589
Well-Known Member
Excellent Video Nelson. The quality is awesome!
The TRT benefits are always overhyped by clinics and the TRT community
Deleted member 16042
Member
Such double hyperbole! LOL!
Coopsdaddy
Member
I think you are just starting shit to start shit,if it don’t work for you maybe you didn’t do your due diligence to find the correct dose and relied on your doctor.Maybe you just don’t put in the effort of diet,fitness and lifestyle to make it all work together.Maybe your just lazy or maybe you did everything possible to make it work.
Or just maybe you want attention on a fourm so you come on here and complain.
Im on it and have tried many doses and finally settled in on something that’s seems to work the best,it’s not a magic bullet but i love my biweekly shots!
Or just maybe you want attention on a fourm so you come on here and complain.
Im on it and have tried many doses and finally settled in on something that’s seems to work the best,it’s not a magic bullet but i love my biweekly shots!
I absolutely disagree with your fallacious premise. Numerous studies demonstrate the benefits of restoring T levels. I'm not talking supraphysiologic levels either.
I've been on TRT for 4 years and I can say, unequivocally, the benefits of it have been fantastic, both subjectively and objectively. My libido went from mediocre to very good; not like an 18 year old incessantly horny male but more like when I was 35. I also had improved erections, i.e. much firmer and sensitive. I also had a new found motivation, energy and zest for life.
I added a good deal of muscle mass, lost fat mass, and generally improved my physique. I'm not looking to be the next Ronnie Coleman. I simply want to be attractive to my loving and supportive wife and TRT has done that for me.
It's very ignorant of the OP to be dismissive of TRT when this board and many others are replete with success stories. While TRT doesn't work for everyone, the vast majority respond to it well, when it's used in the proper dosage for the individual. I have no need for an AI, my HCT is 45%, my Hb is 16.2.
I dose 40mg Test Cyp 2X/week and 150iu HCG Monday-Friday. The HCG keeps my testicles full, allows for larger semen loads, and has a general well-being benefit on me. Again, not everyone uses or responds well to HCG.
The bottom line: TRT has been a game changer for me.
I've been on TRT for 4 years and I can say, unequivocally, the benefits of it have been fantastic, both subjectively and objectively. My libido went from mediocre to very good; not like an 18 year old incessantly horny male but more like when I was 35. I also had improved erections, i.e. much firmer and sensitive. I also had a new found motivation, energy and zest for life.
I added a good deal of muscle mass, lost fat mass, and generally improved my physique. I'm not looking to be the next Ronnie Coleman. I simply want to be attractive to my loving and supportive wife and TRT has done that for me.
It's very ignorant of the OP to be dismissive of TRT when this board and many others are replete with success stories. While TRT doesn't work for everyone, the vast majority respond to it well, when it's used in the proper dosage for the individual. I have no need for an AI, my HCT is 45%, my Hb is 16.2.
I dose 40mg Test Cyp 2X/week and 150iu HCG Monday-Friday. The HCG keeps my testicles full, allows for larger semen loads, and has a general well-being benefit on me. Again, not everyone uses or responds well to HCG.
The bottom line: TRT has been a game changer for me.
Dave was NOT 76 in this pic. Early 60s. His last several years were plagued by chronic illness.I can't disagree with you that testosterone clinics over hype benefits but some of them are real. But are muscle gains and bone mass density really over blown?
Testosterone plays an important role in maintaining bone mass density and bone health among men. Testosterone can increase osteoblasts which increase bone density.
Testosterone and the Male Skeleton: A Dual Mode of Action
Testosterone is an important hormone for both bone gain and maintenance in men. Hypogonadal men have accelerated bone turnover and increased fracture risk. In these men, administration of testosterone inhibits bone resorption and maintains bone mass. Testosterone, however, is converted into...www.hindawi.com
As far as muscle gains are concerned, as we age it become hard to maintain mass and gain mass and strength. TRT can help to over come this process but you are not going to change anything unless you get off the couch and hit the gym.
The following study show increases in fat-free mass, leg press strength, leg power, thigh, quadriceps muscle volumes, hemoglobin, and IGF-I as the dosing gradually increased (25,50, 125, 300, 600mg). *note- you still had to get off the couch and work out.
Testosterone dose-response relationships in healthy young men - PubMed
Testosterone increases muscle mass and strength and regulates other physiological processes, but we do not know whether testosterone effects are dose dependent and whether dose requirements for maintaining various androgen-dependent processes are similar. To determine the effects of graded doses...pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
In this study there was a dose dependent increase in muscle volume in healthy eugonadal men treated with graded doses of testosterone are associated with concentration-dependent increases in cross-sectional areas of both type I and type II muscle fibers and myonuclear number. We conclude that the testosterone induced increase in muscle volume is due to muscle fiber hypertrophy. ( 25-, 50-, muscle shape, muscle insertions, muscle bellies and cells, height, doses).
Testosterone-induced increase in muscle size in healthy young men is associated with muscle fiber hypertrophy - PubMed
Administration of replacement doses of testosterone to healthy hypogonadal men and supraphysiological doses to eugonadal men increases muscle size. To determine whether testosterone-induced increase in muscle size is due to muscle fiber hypertrophy, 61 healthy men, 18-35 yr of age, received...
In the next study, older men respond to graded doses of testosterone (125, 300, and 600 mg) with a dose-dependent increase in muscle fiber CSA and satellite cell number. Testosterone-induced skeletal muscle hypertrophy in older men is associated with increased satellite cell replication and activation.
Effects of testosterone supplementation on skeletal muscle fiber hypertrophy and satellite cells in community-dwelling older men - PubMed
Older men respond to graded doses of testosterone with a dose-dependent increase in muscle fiber CSA and satellite cell number. Testosterone-induced skeletal muscle hypertrophy in older men is associated with increased satellite cell replication and activation.
I agree that muscle shape, muscle insertions, muscle bellies and height are genetic, but I have seen some older guys on TRT dose build a substantial amount of muscle with a lot of work and good diet. The thing most clinic don't tell you is the work is hard and you have to be very dedicated.
I turn 67 this year, I am 6'1" 245lbs and about 7%BF. I work out with extreme high intensity pushing my heart rate well over my age related max HR to the 150-160 BPM range during heavy sets. What has age done, I am not as muscular or strong as I was 20 years ago. I have a lot of injuries from so many year sin the gym and heavy training. My bone density is still way beyond normal, body fat, way below normal and muscle mass way more than most in a the gym. I am using 40mg of testosterone undeconoate every 5 days. Not much at all. Now how much would that change if I went up in dose (125, 300, 600mg)? I have seen some pretty big bodybuilders my age.
TRT clinics are for the most part like weight loss clinics, the are selling the magic bullet and want you to believe that a panacea come with no effort. Getting physiological improvement as we age takes a lot of effort and determination. Its not for everyone or all of us old guys would look great. Yea, at some point we are all going to end up in the same place. Its quality of life during the path that make the difference. Dave Draper, former Mr Universe, he was 76 in this picture and died of a massive stroke in his sleep 3 years later.
View attachment 30564
Deleted member 43589
Well-Known Member
Dave had congestive heart issues since he was around 38 years old. My wife and I saw him in 2011 at World Gym in Santa Cruz and he was in very good shape. He had two stints put in around 2013 but still was back training afterwards. FACT, according to his wife Laree, Dave did not stop lifting weight until a year before his death. The fact that he kept training, took care of his diet and stopped drinking helped him to avoid being a burden on his loved ones since his diagnosis of congestive heart failure. I met Dave and his wife in 1995 through a mutual friend. We communicated by email every since. Dave also was a member of a mailing group I started on USENET many years ago. His wife Laree told me it was my news group that influenced him to do the web site and forum. In fact Dave, sent me the link for the picture I posted. There are other pictures of him at 75 still in very good shape. Dave believed in quality of life. He lived his life that way. The below picture was from RxMuscle. Looks pretty god for a guy who is plagued by illness.
Draper at 68....
I will also add this....Arnold posted that Dave was his idol and he has a picture of Dave on the wall of his home in Austria. The gym my wife trained at in Buenos Aires (Athletic 2000) also had a picture of Dave on the wall. He was her idol as well as most of the bodybuilders training in the gym. When she finally got to meat Dave in person in 2011, she was impressed. Not a let down at all, even at 69 years old. Of course Dave Draper is not the only guy this agree to maintain a great shape.
Howe about Jim Arrington, 84 years old at his last competition. Now there is quality of life.
Draper at 68....
I will also add this....Arnold posted that Dave was his idol and he has a picture of Dave on the wall of his home in Austria. The gym my wife trained at in Buenos Aires (Athletic 2000) also had a picture of Dave on the wall. He was her idol as well as most of the bodybuilders training in the gym. When she finally got to meat Dave in person in 2011, she was impressed. Not a let down at all, even at 69 years old. Of course Dave Draper is not the only guy this agree to maintain a great shape.
Howe about Jim Arrington, 84 years old at his last competition. Now there is quality of life.
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60 yo male, started taking Test Enanthate (read it had fewer side effects) about 6 months ago. Nothing short of life changing for me so I'd venture a guess those without the results they're looking for may have other root causes to their problems. I put off trying it until I had exhausted all other options because all they hype seemed too good to be true so was a bit wary.
Sex drive wasn't an issue for me but it's dialed mine back to 2 decades ago, initially I'd say 3 decades but stabilized to about what my late 30's were like. I have dropped some bodyfat % and about 20 pounds but but not as much as I'd like.
Side effects are nominal other than packing on weight when I have protein in my diet. Since I don't hit the weights a lot that makes no sense to me. So I live on almost all fruits and vegetables with some butter on the veggies, that's it. Cheat day 1 or 2 times a month with 90% lean buffalo, then back to the veggies. I add any lean chicken or beef into my daily diet and I'm packing on 1 pound a day, every day.
Mood, mental clarity, endurance, mental focus, visual focus, feels good to flex my muscles, just standing up and stretching feels amazing. All improved 100% to 500% and stable, initially it felt like 1000% but dialed back after the first 2 weeks. Initially it felt like "this can't be legal", felt so good.
The one thing I did not expect as a side but it's smoothing out now. Sleep patterns. I normally have a great nights sleep when I have at least 60 mins of deep and 120 mins of REM, have monitored with a fitbit for 10 years. Since I started TRT I "thought" it was making me sleep better since I'd want to stay asleep longer, but what was actually happening was that I was only getting 30 mins or less of deep and 60 mins or less of REM, the rest was all light. I felt sleepy because I wasn't getting the quality of sleep I needed. Positive it is TRT induced.
Sex drive wasn't an issue for me but it's dialed mine back to 2 decades ago, initially I'd say 3 decades but stabilized to about what my late 30's were like. I have dropped some bodyfat % and about 20 pounds but but not as much as I'd like.
Side effects are nominal other than packing on weight when I have protein in my diet. Since I don't hit the weights a lot that makes no sense to me. So I live on almost all fruits and vegetables with some butter on the veggies, that's it. Cheat day 1 or 2 times a month with 90% lean buffalo, then back to the veggies. I add any lean chicken or beef into my daily diet and I'm packing on 1 pound a day, every day.
Mood, mental clarity, endurance, mental focus, visual focus, feels good to flex my muscles, just standing up and stretching feels amazing. All improved 100% to 500% and stable, initially it felt like 1000% but dialed back after the first 2 weeks. Initially it felt like "this can't be legal", felt so good.
The one thing I did not expect as a side but it's smoothing out now. Sleep patterns. I normally have a great nights sleep when I have at least 60 mins of deep and 120 mins of REM, have monitored with a fitbit for 10 years. Since I started TRT I "thought" it was making me sleep better since I'd want to stay asleep longer, but what was actually happening was that I was only getting 30 mins or less of deep and 60 mins or less of REM, the rest was all light. I felt sleepy because I wasn't getting the quality of sleep I needed. Positive it is TRT induced.
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