I just got my labs back from when I was taking around 80 mg/wk. Total was 655 (300 to 890) and free was 179 (47 to 244). It's been a week since I lowered to 63 mg/wk and I skipped one dose. Sleep slowly got better and the last 2 to 3 nights it has been very deep and restfull. All the sides are much better, not angry, irritable and my mind is much sharper. Night time wood is much better. I figure if my free was 179 at trough my peak is higher so lowering was good for me. Staying vigilant is a very good idea. I will care more about feeling than numbers. Thank you for the support.
Testosterone Side Effects after one year.
- Thread starter Gibbon
- Start date
t_spacemonkey
Well-Known Member
50mg Tprop in 1 shot is insane. this has a half life of 19h. youbspiked your levels to 350mg/week. dont blame prop
tropicaldaze1950
Well-Known Member
The PIP was from test prop, not the dose. I've taken less and also experienced significant PIP for several days. Dosage and PIP, AFIK, are not connected. And there's a doctor on t-nation who has only one patient on test P, 50 mg, IIRC, 2X weekly.
RotnGun
Active Member
Which test ester do you use and what numbers were your last blood test?
Hey guys, it has been 4 weeks since I lowered my dose and I have good things and then something I can only describe as a type of withdrawl. I think I should have lowered it by 10% instead of jumping to 20%. For the bad. Nausea! Felt like I was going to throw a couple of times. Just out of the blue during or after meals. Something I never have so it's sorta odd, bowel issues, some twitchiness (legs) and i find myself fidgeting, anxiousness at times, and some sleep issues.
For the good, better clairity, 3 nights before last were very good sleep wise, appetite (something that hasn't been good for over 3 weeks), irritability and anger is reduced a lot, improvement in overall numbness to the world. Things I didn't notice that were not good for quality of life.
I assume that my hormones are adjusting and that I need to give it at least 6 to 8 weeks. Seems like any additional test changes would be a terrible idea at this time. I sorta realized that even though eventually things will settle down there is a downside to reducing dose because the body has had a higher dose of test and parts of the body are used to it? Does this make sense to anyone? Thank you.
For the good, better clairity, 3 nights before last were very good sleep wise, appetite (something that hasn't been good for over 3 weeks), irritability and anger is reduced a lot, improvement in overall numbness to the world. Things I didn't notice that were not good for quality of life.
I assume that my hormones are adjusting and that I need to give it at least 6 to 8 weeks. Seems like any additional test changes would be a terrible idea at this time. I sorta realized that even though eventually things will settle down there is a downside to reducing dose because the body has had a higher dose of test and parts of the body are used to it? Does this make sense to anyone? Thank you.
Belekas
nobody
Hey Gibbon.
Glad you are doing better. The withdrawal effect is def there as I have went trough the same myself just with higher doses. Me too been battling various sides for a year as well after starting my TRT experiment after 3 years off and long time reading, researching and still being very skeptical. Perhaps you have read my thread but I also was having similar sides like yourself. Irritability, anger in waves, feeling wired, overstimulated thus spiking my BP. I did have some good moments, don't get me wrong but I was doing mad amounts of cardio work and training which kinda neglects the whole idea. Then I got sick, as always in top form I tend to do, theres a pattern, and then shit really hit the fan and wasn't able to feel good and control my BP on any dose or frequency that I have tried. Whats interested that my sleep pretty much stays always the same as on 100mg and as on 250mg that I have ran years ago during my BB career. Did you also get cognitive decline side effects, like memory issues, or word recalling issues or something in that manner? It def effected me this way as well. And since I went on TRT mostly to improve my cognitive functions, brain fog and overall wellbeing, my experiment failed and now I'm 25 days off cold turkey. I tried some AIs as well which made zero improvement and maybe made things even worse after which I had no other option just to get off. Sucks but IIWII.
I definitely developed word recall issues when I was on 80mg/wk. found myself stumped a lot. That is better on the lower dose for sure. I found myself speaking in simpler terms to if that makes sense. I should say I believe one needs to look at blood levels and not just the amount we are taking as everyone is so different
FunkOdyssey
Seeker of Wisdom
I had the exact same cognitive difficulties you describe on 70 mg a week of testosterone benzylate (cypionate). I have none on 175 mg a week of hikma enanthate. So in my case, it seems more related to the toxicity of the formula than levels of hormones.
How did you decide on enanthate? Do you mind telling me your dosing frequency and levels since that is a big jump if you couldn't handle test cyp. I considered Test P since it is a shorter half life and thought maybe it is better since I maybe able to mimic normal outputs. I tried Atrevis which worked great but abosorption fatigue hit rather quick. I'd rather inject an be done with it for the day.
FunkOdyssey
Seeker of Wisdom
I laid out most of the details on my log thread:
Thread 'My TRT Odyssey: Lab Results and More' My TRT Odyssey: Lab Results and More
Thank you for posting that for me. I appreciate it. It was a very good read with lots of good advice. Madman had a point in there that I wish I would have known before changing my doese down 20%. I should have gone 10% and I probably wouldn't have had such a hard time during the adjustment period. I am only 4 weeks in after a year on higher dose and to expect my body to be totally fine with it was my lack of knowledge. I am reading more on this site daily to educate myself. Thanks again to all who have responded.
Well Guys,
Here is my status: After lowering my dose 20% (test cyp) after about 5 days I was sleeping and feeling better but over time things are not going well, nausea, sleep problems, and anxiety. It has been 5 weeks with it progressively getting worse over the last 3. My choices seem to be to increase my dose about 10 percent and hope that helps or actually talking to my doctor and ask to go to ED injections since I have low SHBG and maybe even ask for test p since it moves more like the natural cycle with a shorter half life. The thought being I did well on cream until in pooped out and maybe it is better for me to have a spike in the morning and lower towards evening rather than a steady amount. I have even thought of trying cream again since I had zero sleep issue on it. I feeling a little desperate and wondering what to do is stressful. I am also going to ask for full blood work and see if something has changed. Any feedback would be appreciated. Thank you.
Here is my status: After lowering my dose 20% (test cyp) after about 5 days I was sleeping and feeling better but over time things are not going well, nausea, sleep problems, and anxiety. It has been 5 weeks with it progressively getting worse over the last 3. My choices seem to be to increase my dose about 10 percent and hope that helps or actually talking to my doctor and ask to go to ED injections since I have low SHBG and maybe even ask for test p since it moves more like the natural cycle with a shorter half life. The thought being I did well on cream until in pooped out and maybe it is better for me to have a spike in the morning and lower towards evening rather than a steady amount. I have even thought of trying cream again since I had zero sleep issue on it. I feeling a little desperate and wondering what to do is stressful. I am also going to ask for full blood work and see if something has changed. Any feedback would be appreciated. Thank you.
tropicaldaze1950
Well-Known Member
Injecting in late afternoon or evening? Just a thought since T reaches its peak early morning. I experiment on myself. Tried injecting at noon, then switched to 6 p.m. I've found more nocturnal erections injecting at noon. I have bipolar illness and my sleep has been dysregulated since mid-2004. Need to take medication every night and the quality of sleep isn't that good, so I have nothing worthy to contribute to the discussion of that issue. If cream doesn't mess up your sleep, seems like you have at least a partial solution. How often were you taking it?
Systemlord
Member
Your hormone levels are influx, and they are bound to be ups and downs. Stay the course!
You should give each protocol 12 weeks.
Thank you systemlord. Should I worry that my hemocrit is up to 50.9%? That was even after the drop in dose. Last night I just laid there and didn't get much sleep if at all. Going to take all of the meditation and such to get over the hump. At least today the naseau is better and the shakes have ticks have diminished.
FunkOdyssey
Seeker of Wisdom
If you read my log you'll see I had similar sleep and anxiety problems with cypionate at low doses and low free T and E2 levels, which I did not have on cream with much higher T and E2 levels, and I did not have on hikma enanthate with much higher T and E2 levels. These side effects (and many others) were dose-dependent and dose-limiting for me on cypionate. My friend was suffering with anxiety and insomnia on cypionate also.
Both of us had resolution of these side effects with hikma enanthate. The sky is now the limit for me in terms of tolerating higher doses that can actually resolve hypogonadal symptoms. So if you are going to talk to your doctor about trying another ester, may I humbly suggest delatestryl or its generic hikma enanthate, because there's more going on here than just the ester. Consider the following comparison:
100 mg hikma testosterone enanthate = 2.5 mg chlorobutanol
100 mg standard/compounded testosterone cypionate OR propionate = ~100 mg benzyl benzoate, 9.45 mg benzyl alcohol
More excipients in there than testosterone itself! Excipients that drastically change the release profile while they are present, while causing idiosyncratic sensitivity and toxicity reactions! 44x more excipients than delatestryl and generics!
Of course Systemlord has a good point that you are much too early into your current protocol change to determine whether it will ultimately be successful. However, if you do get to the point of making another change, I hope you will consider what I'm sharing here.
BTW with regard to absorption issues, sesame oil is the best oil for maximum subcutaneous absorption and that is why it was used in Xyosted. The delatestryl formula is equally optimal for SC injections between the sesame oil and lack of irritating benzyl excipients. Frequent SC injections of this stuff (I like EOD) is the chef's kiss of TRT in my opinion. Madman is on it too so you know it's good.
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Thank you for the information and encouragement. It is quite frustrating finding what works isn't it? I was suprised as I thought after a year I was good but then levels just went up. Even not sleeping much last night I had a short nap and feel pretty good with minimal anxiety which was quite pronounced after eating each meal yesterday.
I will keep your advice in mind and will research that more also. I want to get a plan sort of figured out if I need to go another route but will stay the course longer. Thanks again!
I use Defy so I wonder if they have the enanthate you use? I'll have to check that out.
I will keep your advice in mind and will research that more also. I want to get a plan sort of figured out if I need to go another route but will stay the course longer. Thanks again!
I use Defy so I wonder if they have the enanthate you use? I'll have to check that out.
FunkOdyssey
Seeker of Wisdom
They do -- that's where I get mine.
Systemlord
Member
No need to worry, cut offs for men on TRT are 54%, mine is 51%. Lab ranges for hematocrit vary from 50, 51, 52 and 54%, depending on the lab company.
I once had my hematocrit at 57%, no circulation problems or symptoms.
There are some that make the argument that staying <52% is safest, but there's still so much controversy. That's like saying everyone should aim for midrange testosterone.
If you have comorbid conditions, heart disease, plaque build-up, calcification, blockages, you may run into problems with higher hematocrit. In other words, if you're old a busted, you might fall apart with higher hematocrit.
It's no different than installing a V12 Ferrari engine into a old high mileage car, it's going to show it's weaknesses and fall apart.
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