Testosterone/Nandrolone withdrawal

[Gman86]

Thanks for your comments. I’ve been getting the phlebotomies for years and I’ve never had any side effects. The symptoms I’m dealing with started just after stopping the nandrolone and cutting back on the test. I have to believe this is the cause.

So ur symptoms should be temporary, luckily. But trust me, ive felt so bad at one point on HRT that I was considering suicide on a regular basis. So I know what it’s like to feel horrible and feel like everyday is torture. It’s obv completely miserable, and everyday is an absolute struggle to get through. So I totally understand ur desire for answers/ solutions like right now lol. But I promise u that everything is temporary, and u’ll feel much better soon enough. I’d imagine u’ll start feeling a lot better in another week or two. Even faster if u stopped taking the ai, imo

 

[Systemlord]

I think 300 mg of androgens per week is WAY too much. I have to believe this is causing my sleep issues.

Too much T can make some men feel wired all the time, making sleep problematic.

 

[Waderman]

So ur symptoms should be temporary, luckily. But trust me, ive felt so bad at one point on HRT that I was considering suicide on a regular basis. So I know what it’s like to feel horrible and feel like everyday is torture. It’s obv completely miserable, and everyday is an absolute struggle to get through. So I totally understand ur desire for answers/ solutions like right now lol. But I promise u that everything is temporary, and u’ll feel much better soon enough. I’d imagine u’ll start feeling a lot better in another week or two. Even faster if u stopped taking the ai, imo

It sounds like I’m going through the same thing you struggled with. I have had those thoughts the last several days. If you don’t mind me asking, why do you think stopping the AI would help? I’ve been doing the AI for years and never had any issues…

 

[Gman86]

It sounds like I’m going through the same thing you struggled with. I have had those thoughts the last several days. If you don’t mind me asking, why do you think stopping the AI would help? I’ve been doing the AI for years and never had any issues…

Ya hormone fluctuations can be crazy man. But just know how ur feeling is extremely temporary, especially considering the reason(s) why ur feeling this way.

i only say that because most guys aren’t going to need an ai using around 150mg of test only. And 1mg per week is a pretty large dose of anastrozole for someone on HRT. And if 1mg/ week was working for u while using 200mg test, and 100mg of nandrolone, I think it’s safe to assume it’s gonna be too much now that ur tapering ur dosage down. I tried for years to dial in using an ai, and just found it very difficult to find a sustainable “sweetspot”

 

[Waderman]

Ya hormone fluctuations can be crazy man. But just know how ur feeling is extremely temporary, especially considering the reason(s) why ur feeling this way.

i only say that because most guys aren’t going to need an ai using around 150mg of test only. And 1mg per week is a pretty large dose of anastrozole for someone on HRT. And if 1mg/ week was working for u while using 200mg test, and 100mg of nandrolone, I think it’s safe to assume it’s gonna be too much now that ur tapering ur dosage down. I tried for years to dial in using an ai, and just found it very difficult to find a sustainable “sweetspot”

OK I understand. I’ll ask my doctor next week about potentially cutting (or eliminating) the AI since I am going to gradually taper back on the test and stop the Nandrolone. Thanks again for your advice!

 

[madman]

I’ve heard Rand state on you tube videos that a guy has to stay above 800-850 total to derive benefits from TRT….considering he advocates one injection per week that means you are going to be supra-physiological most of the time….some guys tolerate that, others don’t (I am in the DONT camp). He seems pretty knowledgeable from what I can see, but he also comes from a “bodybuilding” culture that seems to encourage higher dosing protocols and he’s dead set on keeping E2 in a tight range with AIs….I like to keep things simple, and if you are having insomnia with TRT it is kind of one of the leading indicators your dose is too high for your genetics / physiology….my 2 cents…

I would tread lightly here.

Most who have been on this forum long enough should know that this is far from a given.

Dose T/injection frequency needs to be kept in mind let alone where your trough FT truly sits.

Top it off that although TT is important to know FT is what truly matters as it is the active unbound fraction of T responsible for the positive effects.

Unfortunately many are still clueless when it comes to where their trough FT level truly sits on such protocol due to using/relying upon inaccurate assays.

Huge difference between the peak--->trough injecting daily or EOD vs once weekly.

Too many get caught up thinking they need to be running 900-1000+ troughs while turning a blind eye to peak levels.

Gets even more ridiculous when you have men with low SHBG running trough TT 1000+ ng/dL with trough FT through the roof!

Two extremes when it comes to running a high-end/absurdly high trough on dailies/EOD vs once weekly.

Main benefit of injecting lower doses of T more frequently is clipping the peak--->trough /more stable blood levels throughout the week.

Most men on those cookie cutter protocols using what would be considered high-end TRT doses of 200 mg T/week injected once weekly are still hitting high trough (7 days post-injection) TT/FT levels.

You can nitpick about the AUC but peak TT/FT levels are sky high numerous days out of every week.

Overkill to say the least.

 

[madman]

Thank you very much for the advice. I’m not sure what is causing the withdrawal symptoms, the test or the Nandrolone. I did some research and supposedly Nandrolone withdrawal is a real thing. I am going to bring my test levels back up to 200 and then gradually taper off. I talk to my TRT doctor, Dr. Rand McClain out of California, early next week. Hopefully he’ll help me get this straightened out because I am in pretty bad shape right now.

Post your last set of labs from last year before you added in the nandrolone.

You were injecting 200 mg T once weekly.

Where did your trough (7 days post-injection) TT, FT and estradiol sit and what assays were used?

What was your SHBG?

Where did your RBCs, hemoglobin and hematocrit sit?

Were you donating frequently back then?

Have you ever tested iron/ferritin?

 

[madman]

Thank you very much for the information. Some of it I did not completely understand but I appreciate your response. I’m going to talk to my TRT doctor next week, Dr. Rand McClain out of California. He is pretty well known so I’m hoping his advice will be solid. I quit the Nandrolone cold turkey about 4 weeks ago. I believe the withdrawal symptoms I am experiencing are from that. I’m going to try to ride that out because I really don’t want to be on the Nandrolone anymore (hopefully the withdrawal from that won’t last too much longer). Dr. Rand added it to my regime because I have a lot of joint pain from lifting. I cut back on the test from 200 to 100 mg two weeks ago so I don’t think the withdrawal symptoms are from that (but maybe they are as well as withdrawal from the nandrolone). I’m going to bring the test back up to 200 mg and then gradually taper off. I’m also going to take your advice and do two injections a week instead of one. I do take an AI 48 hours after my injection (1mg anastrozole). I definitely think that the TT of 1700 is way too high. My FT was 53. I believe this is the root cause of my sleeping issues. I don’t have sleep apnea. Also, I do therapeutic phlebotomy’s every six weeks and my hemoglobin is usually only around 15 as a result. Thanks again for your input and any additional information based on what I just told you would be appreciated. Craig

Speak with your doctor first before making any rash decisions.

 

[TLR]

I would tread lightly here.

Most who have been on this forum long enough should know that this is far from a given.

Dose T/injection frequency needs to be kept in mind let alone where your trough FT truly sits.

Top it off that although TT is important to know FT is what truly matters as it is the active unbound fraction of T responsible for the positive effects.

Unfortunately many are still clueless when it comes to where their trough FT level truly sits on such protocol due to using/relying upon inaccurate assays.

Huge difference between the peak--->trough injecting daily or EOD vs once weekly.

Too many get caught up thinking they need to be running 900-1000+ troughs while turning a blind eye to peak levels.

Gets even more ridiculous when you have men with low SHBG running trough TT 1000+ ng/dL with trough FT through the roof!

Two extremes when it comes to running a high-end/absurdly high trough on dailies/EOD vs once weekly.

Main benefit of injecting lower doses of T more frequently is clipping the peak--->trough /more stable blood levels throughout the week.

Most men on those cookie cutter protocols using what would be considered high-end TRT doses of 200 mg T/week injected once weekly are still hitting high trough (7 days post-injection) TT/FT levels.

You can nitpick about the AUC but peak TT/FT levels are absurdly high numerous days out of every week.

Overkill to say the least.

Oh trust me….I don’t believe that to be the case…just referencing what I’ve heard him say since OP stated that was his doctor. I did the large dose once a week thing with the AI twelve years ago when I started and had every side effect you could get except for elevated H/H….twelve years later I sit at 30 mg twice a week!

 

[Waderman]

Oh trust me….I don’t believe that to be the case…just referencing what I’ve heard him say since OP stated that was his doctor. I did the large dose once a week thing with the AI twelve years ago when I started and had every side effect you could get except for elevated H/H….twelve years later I sit at 30 mg twice a week!

I am going to get off this thread now. I believe I’ve gotten some very valuable opinions and suggestions from many of you which I really appreciate. At this point, I’m going to meet with my TRT doctor and try to get this mess straightened out. I’m definitely going to transition to a new protocol which decreases my dosage levels. I believe my high levels have been causing my sleep issues. Thank you again everyone for your valuable insight and helping me through this. Craig

 

[ScSc123]

I’m 56 years old. I’ve been on TRT for 10 years. 200 mg testosterone cypionate injected once a week. About a year ago my doctor put me on Nandrolone as well, 100 mg injected once a week with the test. My six month lab work usually shows a total testosterone count of around 1700. I have pretty severe issues with insomnia and think it might be due to the high T levels. After talking to my TRT doctor, he suggested I cut my testosterone dosage in half, from 200 mg per week to 100 mg per week to see if my sleep improves. I also completely stopped taking Nandrolone. I started this new protocol three weeks ago. Within two weeks, I started exhibiting severe symptoms which I believe to be withdrawal from both completely stoping the nandrolone and cutting my test dosage in half. Brain fog, dizziness, lack of energy and libido, anxiety, depression. I don’t talk to my TRT doctor for another week so if anybody out there has any comments/suggestions I sure would appreciate it. I believe I should not have quit the Nandrolone cold turkey and I should have more gradually cut back on the test…

Why don’t you try keeping your total weekly Dosage of T and N the same but splitting it into two doses. That’s what I did after about 7 months of once a week and I felt a big improvement. No more highs and lows and it helped lower my HCT .
I inject every 3.5 days. Give it a try for about a month before changing or dropping anything.

 

[jayt]

I’m 56 years old. I’ve been on TRT for 10 years. 200 mg testosterone cypionate injected once a week. About a year ago my doctor put me on Nandrolone as well, 100 mg injected once a week with the test. My six month lab work usually shows a total testosterone count of around 1700. I have pretty severe issues with insomnia and think it might be due to the high T levels. After talking to my TRT doctor, he suggested I cut my testosterone dosage in half, from 200 mg per week to 100 mg per week to see if my sleep improves. I also completely stopped taking Nandrolone. I started this new protocol three weeks ago. Within two weeks, I started exhibiting severe symptoms which I believe to be withdrawal from both completely stoping the nandrolone and cutting my test dosage in half. Brain fog, dizziness, lack of energy and libido, anxiety, depression. I don’t talk to my TRT doctor for another week so if anybody out there has any comments/suggestions I sure would appreciate it. I believe I should not have quit the Nandrolone cold turkey and I should have more gradually cut back on the test…

WOW 1700 T level, when I was prescribed my doctor wanted me to get to 1200 and at that level I feel awesome, at 1700 I would want to f*ck anything in sight. Cutting your T will make you have the symptoms you are experiencing but I would think it would be a good thing to do long term. Have you had your hemoglobin checked, at 1700 it may be higher than 15 and that is worrisome, you can donate blood to bring it down with out any additional drugs. To lessen the "withdrawal" I would recommend you check out some *** products, there are gummies and/or capsules available at *** stores or on line everywhere, they will help with mood swings and help to relax. If you want check out a *** Delta 8 or 9...they will really bring on the "chill".