Testosterone Cream- Scrotum VS other areas

[newuser]

Have you guys try to apply it on navel? Can't find anywhere if that area has 5-alpha reductase enzyme.

 

[Fortunate]

Did some labs on one click (50mg each) on each inner bicep, labs done 9 hours after application. Current labs on inner biceps shows T level at 411, FT at 10.6 (7.2 - 24), DHT at 183 (30-85). RBC at 6.04, HBG a 17.7 with HCT at 53.1, all high. Interesting with the T levels so low that my RCB, HBG and HCT are high. Research shows that DHT can drive up these values. Also, my E nonsensitive was <5, so that is crashed. I'm assuming a result of the chronically high DHT and low T levels. No AI.

Prior labs showed one click (50mg) atrevis based compounded gel on scrotum and had T levels at 888, FT at 211 (35-155) and DHT at 287 (12-65). Labs done 9 hours after application. CBC not done. 2 clicks on scrotum had me at T of 1391, FT at 373 (35-155), DHT at 359 (12-65), E sensitive at 70.

For me, n=1, the high DHT gives me BPH symptoms and results in elevated CBC numbers, and no matter where I apply, it results in way over the top DHT numbers, and just not feeling great. I am noticing some better muscle development, likely due to the high DHT, but it's not worth it. Back to injections.

@Wolverine, the feedback is really helpful to many. I bet you are right. We all talk about DHT being the feel-good hormone, but I wonder if there are some that don’t like high DHT levels? Makes sense in your case. I wonder if I am the same? I’ve been on cream recently, and I’d say I feel ok, but not good. Energy has been good, but gradually noticing anxiety building. I wonder if I have the same situation - high DHT with moderate T?

I’ve been using 15% Atrevis based 2-3 clicks once a day.

Probably back to 50mg Xyosted for me. This time, maybe space it out every 6-7 days.

 

[eli]

@Wolverine, the feedback is really helpful to many. I bet you are right. We all talk about DHT being the feel-good hormone, but I wonder if there are some that don’t like high DHT levels? Makes sense in your case. I wonder if I am the same? I’ve been on cream recently, and I’d say I feel ok, but not good. Energy has been good, but gradually noticing anxiety building. I wonder if I have the same situation - high DHT with moderate T?

I’ve been using 15% Atrevis based 2-3 clicks once a day.

Probably back to 50mg Xyosted for me. This time, maybe space it out

Your dose is too high if you're applying on scrotum. Estrogen gives you anxiety not DHT
Especially if you felt fine with 50mg of test... You are a low dose responder.

I do 25-30mg twice a day

 

[Fortunate]

Your dose is too high if you're applying on scrotum. Estrogen gives you anxiety not DHT
Especially if you felt fine with 50mg of test... You are a low dose responder.

I do 25-30mg twice a day

I am not applying to the scrotum. Arms only.

I started with 25mg AM and 12.5mg PM (I also have 5% strength), but really wanted a once a day regimen. So, I tried 25mg AM only. I was fatigued on this, so I gradually increased the AM dose.

That said, I have not done any one strength for a long time. Therefore, I will admit it may be hard to draw any conclusions.

Like you, I may do fine if I gave the low dose with more time. How long did this protocol take before you stopped feeling hypogonadal?

I'd very much prefer to avoid twice a day if possible, so I may go back to injecting for a bit. With cream, I'd have to get up, leave the room, apply, let it dry, etc. Natesto is three times a day, but the applicator is tiny and takes two seconds to apply. Can do it while driving if need be.

 

[Fortunate]

Your dose is too high if you're applying on scrotum. Estrogen gives you anxiety not DHT
Especially if you felt fine with 50mg of test... You are a low dose responder.

I do 25-30mg twice a day

That said, I do think you may be right. I suspect I aromatize more than most and I also suspect I feel crappy with high estrogen. It’s just a delicate balancing act.

 

[Fortunate]

This is not a great study. Retrospective with small numbers. But, done at a reputable place. They compare injections vs. gel vs. pellets and their affects on a number of parameters. I didn't read it closely enough to see if the doses were comparable. In any case, they conclude that injections and gels raise E2 while pellets don't. Not earth shattering. They then make the to-be-expected observations that such changes are simply tied to testosterone changes. Again, not earth shattering.

That said, the data may give me some hints as to why some (including me) have struggled on creams/gels. Large swings in testosterone leads to large swings in downstream metabolites. I suspect that my T levels spike, and thus my E2 spikes. My guess is that the E2 spikes make me feel the negative side effects I associate with creams/gels.

There are data that suggests woman who get migraines are most prone with dropping estrogen levels around their menstruation. My gut tells me that any rapid change in this hormone (up or down) can make some feel bad.

As of now, I am still trialing hydrogel, 75mg once a day. The dose is comparable to any of the commercially available dosing recommendations.

Early observations: More energy and mental clarity; low level anxiety that appears late morning and peaks its head up here and there throughout the day; return of morning wood (which I don't really care about, but did notice it); maybe more prone to getting a headache than usual.

 

[Charliebizz]

This is not a great study. Retrospective with small numbers. But, done at a reputable place. They compare injections vs. gel vs. pellets and their affects on a number of parameters. I didn't read it closely enough to see if the doses were comparable. In any case, they conclude that injections and gels raise E2 while pellets don't. Not earth shattering. They then make the to-be-expected observations that such changes are simply tied to testosterone changes. Again, not earth shattering.

That said, the data may give me some hints as to why some (including me) have struggled on creams/gels. Large swings in testosterone leads to large swings in downstream metabolites. I suspect that my T levels spike, and thus my E2 spikes. My guess is that the E2 spikes make me feel the negative side effects I associate with creams/gels.

There are data that suggests woman who get migraines are most prone with dropping estrogen levels around their menstruation. My gut tells me that any rapid change in this hormone (up or down) can make some feel bad.

As of now, I am still trialing hydrogel, 75mg once a day. The dose is comparable to any of the commercially available dosing recommendations.

Early observations: More energy and mental clarity; low level anxiety that appears late morning and peaks its head up here and there throughout the day; return of morning wood (which I don't really care about, but did notice it); maybe more prone to getting a headache than usual.

you and I share same struggles to a degree. I’m on 4 clicks of the 20% hydrogel from empower on scrotum daily (split 2 am 2 pm) I am not getting the headaches I used to get on injections at all. I do have some of my old symptoms I used to get before trt! very strange. Little vague fatigue in my arms and legs. But other than that my moods are much better. I don’t feel flat mood wise. im Really curious what my levels are. On the regular hrt base. I was 700 tt 8 hours after applying to thighs. But 280 on one click to scrotum 5-6 hours after application. My cream was expired for around 3 months. But seemed normal in color and texture. So not sure. Really curious what 4 clicks in hydrogel is doing to my levels. going to test in 2-3 weeks

 

[Fortunate]

you and I share same struggles to a degree. I’m on 4 clicks of the 20% hydrogel from empower on scrotum daily (split 2 am 2 pm) I am not getting the headaches I used to get on injections at all. I do have some of my old symptoms I used to get before trt! very strange. Little vague fatigue in my arms and legs. But other than that my moods are much better. I don’t feel flat mood wise. im Really curious what my levels are. On the regular hrt base. I was 700 tt 8 hours after applying to thighs. But 280 on one click to scrotum 5-6 hours after application. My cream was expired for around 3 months. But seemed normal in color and texture. So not sure. Really curious what 4 clicks in hydrogel is doing to my levels. going to test in 2-3 weeks

Keep us posted. My guess is that they will be a lot higher than on the regular cream.

 

[Charliebizz]

Keep us posted. My guess is that they will be a lot higher than on the regular cream.

if it is, it’s pretty crazy that I’m handling it well.

 

[wannabefan]

Did some labs on one click (50mg each) on each inner bicep, labs done 9 hours after application. Current labs on inner biceps shows T level at 411, FT at 10.6 (7.2 - 24), DHT at 183 (30-85). RBC at 6.04, HBG a 17.7 with HCT at 53.1, all high. Interesting with the T levels so low that my RCB, HBG and HCT are high. Research shows that DHT can drive up these values. Also, my E nonsensitive was <5, so that is crashed. I'm assuming a result of the chronically high DHT and low T levels. No AI.

Prior labs showed one click (50mg) atrevis based compounded gel on scrotum and had T levels at 888, FT at 211 (35-155) and DHT at 287 (12-65). Labs done 9 hours after application. CBC not done. 2 clicks on scrotum had me at T of 1391, FT at 373 (35-155), DHT at 359 (12-65), E sensitive at 70.

For me, n=1, the high DHT gives me BPH symptoms and results in elevated CBC numbers, and no matter where I apply, it results in way over the top DHT numbers, and just not feeling great. I am noticing some better muscle development, likely due to the high DHT, but it's not worth it. Back to injections.

Wow you are a hyperresponder to DHT conversion pathway. What are your E2 levels, baseline and post-cream application as measured? What has happened to your SHBG levels? Assume your LH went to 0?

 

[Fortunate]

My 75mg once a day was getting to be too much. Amped up feeling. Paused today. Will assess whether to restart at lower dose or bail.

 

[Charliebizz]

My 75mg once a day was getting to be too much. Amped up feeling. Paused today. Will assess whether to restart at lower dose or bail.

How long have you been on it. I’m telling you. I’m quick to panic and bail. But that amped up feeling has lowly got less and less. I would really try and ride it out. keep Telling yourself it will pass. You know why it’s happening. You’re never gonna be able to write cream off completely if you don’t give it a real chance. I’m having some minor sides but also some great positives so I’m riding this out.

 

[Fortunate]

How long have you been on it. I’m telling you. I’m quick to panic and bail. But that amped up feeling has lowly got less and less. I would really try and ride it out. keep Telling yourself it will pass. You know why it’s happening. You’re never gonna be able to write cream off completely if you don’t give it a real chance. I’m having some minor sides but also some great positives so I’m riding this out.

You are right about that! I won't know if I don't give it time. My concern is allowing things to slowly get worse rather than better. You think you are acclimating? You may have just influenced me!

I took today off and used Natesto instead. I definitely not some fatigue compared to the last few days.

 

[Charliebizz]

You are right about that! I won't know if I don't give it time. My concern is allowing things to slowly get worse rather than better. You think you are acclimating? You may have just influenced me!

I took today off and used Natesto instead. I definitely not some fatigue compared to the last few days.

I’m the same way. I have ptsd from how bad i used to feel when all this started. And every protocol change or medication trial I get some kind of side effect then I jump right off. And then months later I end up trying it again because I haven’t stuck with most things long enough to rule out if it could work or not.

i do think I’m acclimating. But it’s not perfect. I’ve had some ups and downs. But it’s helping with one of the biggest issues I had on trt and that was the weird pressure type headaches. And depression.

 

[Fortunate]

I’m the same way. I have ptsd from how bad i used to feel when all this started. And every protocol change or medication trial I get some kind of side effect then I jump right off. And then months later I end up trying it again because I haven’t stuck with most things long enough to rule out if it could work or not.

i do think I’m acclimating. But it’s not perfect. I’ve had some ups and downs. But it’s helping with one of the biggest issues I had on trt and that was the weird pressure type headaches. And depression.

Atta boy. I’m happy for you.

 

[Fortunate]

How long have you been on it. I’m telling you. I’m quick to panic and bail. But that amped up feeling has lowly got less and less. I would really try and ride it out. keep Telling yourself it will pass. You know why it’s happening. You’re never gonna be able to write cream off completely if you don’t give it a real chance. I’m having some minor sides but also some great positives so I’m riding this out.

Did you have zero headaches when you started your most recent trial? Or, did you have some that eventually got better?

It’s a bugaboo I still deal with. Yesterday, took the day of cream - no headaChe (fatigue, but no headache). Today, resumed cream. Better energy, but mild, low grade headache.

I can deal with mild headaches as long as there is reason to believe they will get better.

 

[Charliebizz]

Did you have zero headaches when you started your most recent trial? Or, did you have some that eventually got better?

It’s a bugaboo I still deal with. Yesterday, took the day of cream - no headaChe (fatigue, but no headache). Today, resumed cream. Better energy, but mild, low grade headache.

I can deal with mild headaches as long as there is reason to believe they will get better.

I have to be careful speaking too soon. You forget about outside factors that can be contributing to issues. Last few weeks I’ve been off of work because we were between jobs. Happened to be the same time I started cream. Now I’m back at work with a longer commute and seemed to have my headache yesterday. When I’m working I get tons of tension in my neck. I’m an operating engineer. So I’m always looking down while running machine. I also have disc issues in my neck. So might be completely unrelated to trt. But the timing of when they started was 6 months after starting trt. And I’ve had a bad neck for 20 years.

that said also kind of seems like my honeymoon from cream is slowing down. Libido and erections are def going down. Back to injection Levels. I’m going to give it a few more weeks and reassess.

 

[Keepfit1]

The anal canal can absorb it really well. Try it and take a blood test four hours after. I personally have tried other areas and doesn’t absorb well unless you used a shit ton of cream. The atrevis base gave me a skin reaction so for me that was out.

maybe a bit near the prostrate for DHT and PSA

 

[Nelson Vergel]

I didn't do DHT for biceps application since it's around $80 on its own, and I was getting lots of labs done at the time. I should've just done it in retrospect.

You may want to try the DHT test (LC/MS) with a 20% off coupon: excelmalevip

DHT Blood Test from DiscountedLabs.com

This test measures the amount of dihydrotestosterone (DHT) in the blood. Low DHT has been associated with low libido and high DHT has been linked to acne, hair loss and benigh prostatic inflammation in a minority of men.

www.discountedlabs.com

 

[Jerajera]

You may want to try the DHT test (LC/MS) with a 20% off coupon: excelmalevip

DHT Blood Test from DiscountedLabs.com

This test measures the amount of dihydrotestosterone (DHT) in the blood. Low DHT has been associated with low libido and high DHT has been linked to acne, hair loss and benigh prostatic inflammation in a minority of men.

www.discountedlabs.com

Thanks for that, I've been using discountedlabs since I started TRT almost 3 years ago.

Now I get my lab requisition literally 5 minutes after ordering, and the lab already has it in their system when I show up so I don't even need to print it out or show it on my phone. Couldn't be happier with the service.