Apply cream under armpit??

[Jerajera]

Inner forearms (continuation of palm) and inner biceps have shown great absorbption for me on the HRT (Versabase) cream from Empower.

4 clicks (200mg total), one on each of those body parts (right forearm, left forearm, right inner biceps, left inner biceps) in the morning showed my trough levels (24 hours post application) at 1300ng/dL TT, 28ng/dL FT and 35pg/mL sensitive E2.

 

[Fortunate]

Inner forearms (continuation of palm) and inner biceps have shown great absorbption for me on the HRT (Versabase) cream from Empower.

4 clicks (200mg total), one on each of those body parts (right forearm, left forearm, right inner biceps, left inner biceps) in the morning showed my trough levels (24 hours post application) at 1300ng/dL TT, 28ng/dL FT and 35pg/mL sensitive E2.

Do you feel over the top? With that trough level, your peaks are probably very high. Are you lowering the dose or do you feel OK? Do you have any other parameters such as DHT or hematocrit on this protocol?

 

[Jerajera]

Do you feel over the top? With that trough level, your peaks are probably very high. Are you lowering the dose or do you feel OK? Do you have any other parameters such as DHT or hematocrit on this protocol?

Those results were from a while ago, unfortunately I didn't get anything else tested at the time.

I am currently however back on that same protocol as I felt very good mental clarity and overall performance compared to other protocols, and my most recent Test Prop protocol has failed.

I have labs scheduled for 10 days from now and this time I'm going to test absolutely everything: DHT, Prolactin, Progesterone, Pregnenolone, DHEA-S, Thyroid, Cortisol, etc...on top of course of TT/FT/E2.
Those are going to be for trough levels (24 hours post application), and I'm also going to test just TT/FT/E2/DHT for peak levels (3-4-5 hours post application). I want to see what kind of daily variation I'm seeing in my levels and how high I peak. I would be ok peaking at 35ng/dL and troughing around 25ng/dL if I felt great on this protocol. Peaking at 50ng/dL? Not so much...

I'll update this thread or some other cream thread with my results.

But to answer your question, I actually feel very stable on this 1x/day cream protocol, no ups and downs and much less hyper and wired than on other protocols. I think it might be because my E2 is much lower than on other protocols, including the scrotal cream. E2 on the scrotal cream for me is much higher than forearm/biceps application.

I'm very curious to see what my DHT levels look like compared to scrotal cream and injections.

 

[Hyrulewarrior1978]

Those results were from a while ago, unfortunately I didn't get anything else tested at the time.

I am currently however back on that same protocol as I felt very good mental clarity and overall performance compared to other protocols, and my most recent Test Prop protocol has failed.

I have labs scheduled for 10 days from now and this time I'm going to test absolutely everything: DHT, Prolactin, Progesterone, Pregnenolone, DHEA-S, Thyroid, Cortisol, etc...on top of course of TT/FT/E2.
Those are going to be for trough levels (24 hours post application), and I'm also going to test just TT/FT/E2/DHT for peak levels (3-4-5 hours post application). I want to see what kind of daily variation I'm seeing in my levels and how high I peak. I would be ok peaking at 35ng/dL and troughing around 25ng/dL if I felt great on this protocol. Peaking at 50ng/dL? Not so much...

I'll update this thread or some other cream thread with my results.

But to answer your question, I actually feel very stable on this 1x/day cream protocol, no ups and downs and much less hyper and wired than on other protocols. I think it might be because my E2 is much lower than on other protocols, including the scrotal cream. E2 on the scrotal cream for me is much higher than forearm/biceps application.

I'm very curious to see what my DHT levels look like compared to scrotal cream and injections.

If you use creams long enough they eventually stop absorbing. The skin develops some kind of barrier to absorption over time. The scrotal application bypasses this problem.

 

[Jerajera]

If you use creams long enough they eventually stop absorbing. The skin develops some kind of barrier to absorption over time. The scrotal application bypasses this problem.

It can't be that systematic, can it? Are there no examples of men who've been on non-scrotal cream application for years or decades? What about the gel?

This isn't the first time I read/hear this though, but I've always wondered whether there was something else at play.

Assuming it's true that eventually non-scrotal skin stops absorbing, what would make scrotal cream qualitatively different such that it never reaches that point (I realize you might not have answer, just curious whether you have a theory)?

Scrotal application for me jacks up my E2 severely and DHT even more so, up to 500ng/dL (range 12-65) on 200mg/day, and still 350ng/dL on just 100mg/day, so I'd rather avoid that if possible.

I also feel more calm/stable on non-scrotal application, and the libido and other benefits realistically seem more sustainable than the crazy train ride that is scrotal application, at least for me

 

[Jakefromstatefarm]

Yeap, hairloss is really bad when i apply on scrotum. Due to lots of T to DHT conversion

Same issues here. Thanks for bringing this up

 

[eli]

I've been applying my later 30mgs dose on my eyelids hahaha! No problems so far. It's supposedly very think skin like scrotum, .05mm. 30mg is a small amount when strength is 20%

 

[eli]

If you use creams long enough they eventually stop absorbing. The skin develops some kind of barrier to absorption over time. The scrotal application bypasses this problem.

Any source for this?

 

[Cooper]

How does everyone using cream apply it? Meaning do you use the top-click applicator when applying or do you use your hand?

 

[Charliebizz]

How does everyone using cream apply it? Meaning do you use the top-click applicator when applying or do you use your hand?

I’ve been using the applicator because I have kids and don’t want to use my hand. It’s a little more time consuming but worth it.

 

[wannabefan]

Do you feel over the top? With that trough level, your peaks are probably very high. Are you lowering the dose or do you feel OK? Do you have any other parameters such as DHT or hematocrit on this protocol?

4 clicks for me on scrotum for 4 weeks, the labs drawn 22 hours post last application resulted in:

DHT 36 to 94
Testosterone 502 to 186 (u read that right)
Free T 96 to 41
Estradiol 17 to 18
SHBG 32 to 24
HCt 46 to 50
LH 4.1 to 0

Felt very good.

But that’s quite a troughing! And confusing.

So if labs were drawn 10 hours post application what to expect, 700? I doubt it, but I’m no endocrinologist.

 

[Charliebizz]

4 clicks for me on scrotum for 4 weeks, the labs drawn 22 hours post last application resulted in:

DHT 36 to 94
Testosterone 502 to 186 (u read that right)
Free T 96 to 41
Estradiol 17 to 18
SHBG 32 to 24
HCt 46 to 50
LH 4.1 to 0

Felt very good.

But that’s quite a troughing! And confusing.

So if labs were drawn 10 hours post application what to expect, 700? I doubt it, but I’m no endocrinologist.

I’m sure your results would look much different if you split the dose or tested 5hours after application like recommended by most. However good to see how far you dropped off.

sorry if I missed it. What strength is your cream? What base is it in? what pharmacy?

 

[wannabefan]

I’m sure your results would look much different if you split the dose or tested 5hours after application like recommended by most. However good to see how far you dropped off.

sorry if I missed it. What strength is your cream? What base is it in? what pharmacy?

200mg Cream QD in AM. To your point, it appears, at 50mg, peak levels are within 5 hours, and we begin to see troughing down to 16 hours as measured.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/andr.12357

 

[Charliebizz]

200mg Cream QD in AM. To your point, it appears, at 50mg, peak levels are within 5 hours, and we begin to see troughing down to 16 hours as measured.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/andr.12357

It does seem that every one is different. I believe nelsons levels were like 1300 22 hours post application. But I believe he split it 2 scrotum two on regular skin. might Change how long your levels stay elevated as the thicker skin creates more of a Depot! just things I’ve heard people say in the past. What base is your cream compounded in? And what pharmacy ?

 

[Charliebizz]

Inner forearms (continuation of palm) and inner biceps have shown great absorbption for me on the HRT (Versabase) cream from Empower.

4 clicks (200mg total), one on each of those body parts (right forearm, left forearm, right inner biceps, left inner biceps) in the morning showed my trough levels (24 hours post application) at 1300ng/dL TT, 28ng/dL FT and 35pg/mL sensitive E2.

I don’t think you can really compare The results when using scrotum vs biceps and come to any conclusion. It seems the rate of absorption can be different due to differences in the skin. You might actually peak a lot higher on the scrotum and drop a lot faster vs bicep. But serum e2 can hang around longer making you believe your e2 is higher on scrotum. But I’m respect to your peak t levels it might be perfect.

I could be completely off base here. But it seems to me being in a ******** group with tons of guys on cream. Seems like the creams def stick around longer when applied to non scrotal areas.

 

[Jerajera]

I could be completely off base here. But it seems to me being in a ******** group with tons of guys on cream. Seems like the creams def stick around longer when applied to non scrotal areas

I also believe that. I apply to biceps only once/day and actually feel very steady the whole time.

As far as E2 though, I don't understand how E2 sticking around much longer would be misleading since it should also stick around longer on biceps and be reflected in bloodwork, but my trough E2 on scrotum is much, much higher than on biceps.
If anything it's the opposite. If levels drop a lot faster on scrotal application and E2 levels at trough are still way more elevated, that's evidence that scrotal application aromatizes a lot more.

I can also tell subjectively, as I'm a lot less bloated on the biceps application of the cream, regardless of the dose. When I tried applying 8 clicks to biceps/forearms, my Free T came back at 65ng/dL at trough (24 hours after application), my E2 was only 40pg/mL and I had zero bloat.

On injections or scrotal application, just getting close to the top of the range will have me significantly bloated, I don't even look like the same person.

I'm due for labs next week and will test both trough and peak for the once/day biceps application, it'll be interesting to see how much variation there is.

 

[Charliebizz]

I also believe that. I apply to biceps only once/day and actually feel very steady the whole time.

As far as E2 though, I don't understand how E2 sticking around much longer would be misleading since it should also stick around longer on biceps and be reflected in bloodwork, but my trough E2 on scrotum is much, much higher than on biceps.
If anything it's the opposite. If levels drop a lot faster on scrotal application and E2 levels at trough are still way more elevated, that's evidence that scrotal application aromatizes a lot more.

I can also tell subjectively, as I'm a lot less bloated on the biceps application of the cream, regardless of the dose. When I tried applying 8 clicks to biceps/forearms, my Free T came back at 65ng/dL at trough (24 hours after application), my E2 was only 40pg/mL and I had zero bloat.

On injections or scrotal application, just getting close to the top of the range will have me significantly bloated, I don't even look like the same person.

I'm due for labs next week and will test both trough and peak for the once/day biceps application, it'll be interesting to see how much variation there is.

I wasn’t saying that it wasn’t causing you issues. What I’m saying is your t levels probably peak way higher on scrotal. So you’re not making more e2 in comparison to t levels. So just for argument sake what if your ft peaked at 100 but your e2 was 65. your Making more e2 because you had higher t levels.

it’s seems hard to actually nail down what the peak is for everyone on scrotal application or any application for that matter. But the most important thing is how you feel.

what I like about the cream now is so many different things to try. Different bases,doses And application sites. I’ve struggled on injections for a long time and cream gives me a lot of hope. i wish Someone would invent a finger prick testosterone test Like a glucose monitor lol. Would make life much easier on the cream

 

[SSHSSA74]

Inner forearms (continuation of palm) and inner biceps have shown great absorbption for me on the HRT (Versabase) cream from Empower.

4 clicks (200mg total), one on each of those body parts (right forearm, left forearm, right inner biceps, left inner biceps) in the morning showed my trough levels (24 hours post application) at 1300ng/dL TT, 28ng/dL FT and 35pg/mL sensitive E2.

Interesting. So you are or are not still on this protocol? How is sex drive?

 

[wannabefan]

I don’t think you can really compare The results when using scrotum vs biceps and come to any conclusion. It seems the rate of absorption can be different due to differences in the skin. You might actually peak a lot higher on the scrotum and drop a lot faster vs bicep. But serum e2 can hang around longer making you believe your e2 is higher on scrotum. But I’m respect to your peak t levels it might be perfect.

I could be completely off base here. But it seems to me being in a ******** group with tons of guys on cream. Seems like the creams def stick around longer when applied to non scrotal areas.

FWIW, my E2, 18, did not change whatsoever, DHT up 250%, SHBG dropped 20%, and now that I am off, it is at 45% of what it was pre-T, too low.

 

[Jerajera]

Interesting. So you are or are not still on this protocol? How is sex drive?

I'm done with the cream for good I think, going back to injections.

I didn't feel great on the biceps/forearms application. On paper I should've felt pretty good, with 4 clicks/day my trough Free T was 28ng/dL and E2 sensitive 35pg/mL, much lower (the E2) than on injections and scrotal cream, but I didn't feel any of the increased confidence, higher sex drive, etc...that I felt at time on injections.

I felt really good in some ways on scrotal application but way too wired and hyper aggressive and irritable. my DHT shoots up to 8-10 times the range on the scrotal application also, and I'm not sure I'm comfortable running that for life.