Tested my son for testosterone

[tareload]

Also i will say testing LH would have been useful,

Thumbs up.

 

[Deleted member 43589]

"OK, all is well but I am certainly not happy seeing a 467 total testosterone on a 26 year old, healthy male. I would like to see it closer to the 827 top end at Quest."

Can I ask, what makes you think that a level of 467 is not perfectly healthy for a 26 year old male? Where does it say in the medical literature that all young men need a testosterone level approaching the upper level of the reference range?
How many morning tests did your son do?
Do you fully understand the implications of putting your son onto life long hormone replacement when it may not be necessary?
Depression itself can cause hormone levels to fluctuate. This does not mean depression should be treated with TRT.

Has anything been tried to increase your sons natural production of testosterone?

"I started him on enenthate because I have 20ml of 300mg/ml already available"

Are you saying here that you have self medicated your own son with your own testosterone prescription?
Has he been fully evaluated by an experienced endocrinologist or sexual health physician?

You have initiated treatment on a high dose of 150mgs every 7 days, no wonder he feels good initially! Do you also realise that high doses of Testosterone have the effect of a mood enhancing drug? Do you understand the relationship that testosterone has on dopamine in the brain?

This test was done in the morning. I know well about testosterone levels and the circadian cycle. I am an athlete. Dude, I have been on a life of hormone replacement as well as my wife. I don't not see a problem with it. Would you feel better seeing him in a lifetime of depression. I just posted research you didn't read about normal being <700. Especially in a 26-year-old male. I also just posted a study showing the danger of even close to borderline levels of testosterone (>300). Did you read the part when I posted that he was previously diagnosed with low T by a medical doctor when he was 17. We have been aware of this for a while but did not feel it was good to have a child at that age on testosterone. Since then, I am tired of seeing my wife in tears because she talked her own son off the ledge from committing suicide. We have no more time to play could have, would have should have. I am not at this point concerned in why is T levels are low, I am more concerned with fixing the problem. Then we can spend time on finding out why. Funerals are not so much fun for me.

When did I ever say my son is using my prescription? I use cypionate from a doctor, he is using enanthate. I have made it very clear that I have been using UG steroids for the majority of my life, since our government chose to run us out of doctor's offices and into the black market. I have very good contacts and able to get anything I want in as large of quantity I want.

Mood enhancing talk, about the placebo effect. I have never had my mood enhanced and I have done 1000mg of test in a week. That is pretty hoaky, But then I have never been clinically depressed. There was an insurance company that did tests on steroids and the 'roid rage quite a few years ago. Both side were told to they may feel agression when give the injections. The placebo side actually felt more aggression that the steroid side.

High doses? My doctor prescribed me 200mg every 10 days, I later adjusted it down. It certainly didn't make me feel any better, nor in the 1st week. You have no idea what a high dose is especially if this is a high dose for this 26-year-old. Only further testing will determine that. 150mg/ week is a TRT dose. I know lots of guys on 200mg/wk as ordered by a doctor. Both are wll within the TRT ranges.

Here is the obvious, t levels are determined with serum testing. Low levels are usually solved with supplementation. That is a no brainer. As to what caused it, the solution is much more important at this time than the cause. Do you think a vegan diet might have helped? Some of you guys make such a huge deal over getting expert medical advice yet the whole board is full of one steroid user giving advice to another. That is why this board exist, not to pass judgement on others. Yet a few of us have so freely done just that. Again, very hypocritical. I had two very qualified experts in cardiology not be able to diagnose a DVT I had, my son even know that. As I said, I know well I have more experience that probably most here. It also doesn't take a urologist to be a good TRT doctor, it just takes education, experience and a whole lot of listening to clients, plus a medical license to write prescriptions.

All for these specialists you are bringing up. YES, and endocrinologist declared he was low T when he was 17. Did I not mention that a few times? Now, you also didn't read the part when I said this man is BROKE, jobless and was living in his car (what was left of it), he has never had health insurance since he left home at 18. My wife and I are both retired and living on a fixed income. I have a part time job and my wife owns a small business that has been raped into almost into bankruptcy by the IRS. We make ends meet. Kind of hard to go out and hire a bunch of experts to treat a problem that is a no brainer. Who pays for it? We both have spent time living in countries that don't rely on the medical community to baby sit us. If you have the symptoms of strep throat you go to the pharmacy and get azithromycin. If you keep having the problem, you let a doctor figure out why.

I have been on anabolic steroids longer than probably anyone here, I had to learn a few things about using them. I have been on TRT since maybe 2003 when I retired from competition. Been doing a pretty good job on my own. Started blood testing on my own since about the same time. I literally have a disk full of my medical testing. I take it to every doctor I have and give it to them. All of them are impressed and have never see this. Everyone I know has done the same and we collaborate as well as have conversations with some of the big names in the industry since around 2004. I was doing research work with peptides long before they became popular with the public. We found people smart enoug to synthesize them and in some cases helped them obtain the equipment needed In fact, most of these peptides became popular because work me and a few other like DatBTrue and Dr. Crisler did. The term modified GFR (1-29) wass coined by DAT. Not by scientists. We reported all of our findings to him and he collaborated with DATbTrue for some of the speeches he did in the country in reference to peptide use. Most people had no idea who was behind a lot of this and DAT was the front man. We also collaborate with our TRT use; the HCG ideas came from European weightlifters who also learned many years ago to do low doses of HCG the entire time they were on cycles getting ready for competition. Like I said, I am pretty new here as I have been in some very private boards for many years, some very bright minds there. So, none of you know anything about me or my background. I can promise you it has impress a lot of doctors.

Now I do want to thank some of the members here who chose to debate and learn on a more professional level with out the character assassinations. I sure appreciate that. You guys are what make this board an education and challenging experience. There is not one person here that knows everything about TRT and because we are all individual not everything work like some kind of cookie cutter prescription. I have dealt with literally severally hundreds in my life time and helped them with the use of anabolic steroids,safely when most doctors were too pompus to even listen, much less help.

 

[tareload]

So, none of you know anything about me or my background

True. But when you posted your total at 275 lb / 48 yrs old that sure as hell got my attention. I thought to myself, I think I will listen and try to learn some things from this gentleman. Your mind is even more impressive than your PR total.

 

[Deleted member 43589]

True. But when you posted your total at 275 lb / 48 yrs old that sure as hell got my attention. I thought to myself, I think I will listen and try to learn some things from this gentleman. Your mind is even more impressive than your PR total.

I have the same respect for you! I am humbled!!!

 

[TLawyer]

Before I spend much time on this can you clarify what you are most skeptical about? Is it the efficacy of testosterone for depression, the ineffectiveness of antidepressant drugs, or the idea that antidepressants could be more harmful than testosterone?

I have seen the anectodal reports of TRT helping to address depression symptoms as well as small studies which indicate such, both when testosterone was low and needed to be addressed regardless of depression symptoms. I haven't seen anything that would suggest in those that don't have low testosterone that TRT would be a better choice to address depression than something like Wellbutrin/Bupropion. I'm aware of the sexual issues caused by SSRIs and have seen lots of anectodal reports on people who claim that those problems linger after stopping, but I've never dug into them because I haven't had to ever go on them. All drugs have side effects (including testosterone), but I understand Wellbutrin/Burpropion is considered quite effective for depression with minimal side effects that can be quickly reversed after cessation. That's not necessarily the case with TRT, which one of the reasons why Big Tex's decision alarmed me.

It wouldn't have been my first option but I do think it is likely to help. We all run these risk/benefit analyses differently based on what we've seen in life. From what I can glean about BigTex through his postings here, with his background and life experience, it was pretty much a foregone conclusion that this is how he would respond to his son's depression. You could do alot worse in my opinion.

I agree. I am not surprised at all based on his background that he put his son on testosterone treatment. My main issue is was it done responsibly and does his posting mislead those who don't know anything about TRT and come to this site for quality information and protocols think that jumping on TRT without proper blood tests and supervision and pursuing all other options is the best choice.

 

[Simbarn]

@Simbarn wow somehow I don't think he picked up 300 mg/ml at the local pharmacy. LoL!

True! I missed that. I was too focused on the administering of testosterone to someone with a normal level of T. However, I have had 250 mgs/ml compounded at a compounding pharmacy here in Australia. If my doctor wanted to order 300, they could also do this.
Perhaps why I did not pay much attention to it. Primoteston in Australia comes standard as 250 mgs/ml.

 

[tareload]

SSRIs

I will venture to guess this thread has a few more posts to go. I went looking to see if anyone had posted this recent review and found out it was posted.

The serotonin theory of depression: a systematic umbrella review of the evidence (20 July 2022)

It is often assumed that the effects of antidepressants demonstrate that depression must be at least partially caused by a brain-based chemical abnormality, and that the apparent efficacy of SSRIs shows that serotonin is implicated. Other explanations for the effects of antidepressants have been...

www.excelmale.com

 

[TLawyer]

I appreciate your attempt to be helpful but in a real world, one that I have to pay for all of this, I paid $60 for all the test run. I am sure Defy is a great place, but I will not pay $300-$400 for the same advice.

The cost includes comprehensive blood testing (Free T, Prolactin, DHT, LH, FSH, etc.), which wasn't done here. It includes talking with a medical professional in the field who could talk about other options than jumping on TRT to raise testosterone levels for a young man, like lifestyle adjustments. A medical professional that could have talked about Natesto/nasal gel testosterone that wouldn't have shut down his system. Could have talked about trying Enclomiphene before going to TRT. I feel like that is very different advice than you gave him and well worth the extra cost.

Call me a mizer but that is why I don't go to low T clinics. Now why would you say I don't know what I am doing?

See above. Using steroids for 40 years doesn't make you can expert on it. If you didn't know about Natesto or Enclomiphene, then I think that proves my point. 40 years ago injections were probably the only option, but not anymore.

By saying this you also have said my own doctor doesn't know what he is doing.

You might need to find a new doctor who is an expert in the field.

Bodybuilding sites? That is very insulting. I don't usually frequent those and certainly have not gotten my knowledge from them.

Yes, I could see that as insulting. From what I have seen, most of the guys on those sites are abusing testosterone, not getting blood tests, relying on information passed along by other guys in the dark corners of the gym.

I am a highly educate man who certainly know how to read and understand research. None of this bro science was available for the 42+ years I have been self-medicating and doing blood testing on my own.

Have your blood tests been a complete TRT panel to give you the full picture of your health? Or just total testoterone and estradiol like you advised your son to take?

My use and my sons use is well within the TRT scope.

I believe that the TRT scope would include medical monitoring and proper blood tests.

I have personally known guys like Dr. John Crisler and been in many discussions with him and others in the business for many years.

My best friend is an anesthesiologist. I personally know him and have talked to him a lot about his practice and field. With that said, I'm in no way qualified to do what he does or answer someone's questions about anesthesiology.

It is very obvious you know nothing about me.

I'm not trying to come off as a jerk here (that may be too late). I feel for your son having issues. My fear is that you've potentially made things worse and others would see your approach and believe that it's the way to go for TRT. I do believe that you're trying to help, and I do hope that he improves, but I think your approach here was misguided and could create more problems for him.

 

[TLawyer]

The cost includes comprehensive blood testing (Free T, Prolactin, DHT, LH, FSH, etc.), which wasn't done here. It includes talking with a medical professional in the field who could talk about other options than jumping on TRT to raise testosterone levels for a young man, like lifestyle adjustments. A medical professional that could have talked about Natesto/nasal gel testosterone that wouldn't have shut down his system. Could have talked about trying Enclomiphene before going to TRT. I feel like that is very different advice than you gave him and well worth the extra cost.



See above. Using steroids for 40 years doesn't make you can expert on it. If you didn't know about Natesto or Enclomiphene, then I think that proves my point. 40 years ago injections were probably the only option, but not anymore.



You might need to find a new doctor who is an expert in the field.



Yes, I could see that as insulting. From what I have seen, most of the guys on those sites are abusing testosterone, not getting blood tests, relying on information passed along by other guys in the dark corners of the gym.



Have your blood tests been a complete TRT panel to give you the full picture of your health? Or just total testoterone and estradiol like you advised your son to take?



I believe that the TRT scope would include medical monitoring and proper blood tests.



My best friend is an anesthesiologist. I personally know him and have talked to him a lot about his practice and field. With that said, I'm in no way qualified to do what he does or answer someone's questions about anesthesiology.



I'm not trying to come off as a jerk here (that may be too late). I feel for your son having issues. My fear is that you've potentially made things worse and others would see your approach and believe that it's the way to go for TRT. I do believe that you're trying to help, and I do hope that he improves, but I think your approach here was misguided and could create more problems for him.

I do note that Enclomiphene would be problematic in light of the recent FDA action, but I understand that Empower is still selling it. It could certainly be used temporarily to see if it helps get your son out of his current situation by raising his levels.

 

[tareload]

If my doctor wanted to order 300, they could also do this.

Hmmm, he could but why would he in the context of clinical usage of testosterone ester for TRT?

 

[tareload]

I do note that Enclomiphene would be problematic in light of the recent FDA action, but I understand that Empower is still selling it. It could certainly be used temporarily to see if it helps get your son out of his current situation by raising his levels.

Thank you for adding this. Your post makes more sense now. Also appreciate your comments on nasal gel. With proper LH confirmation, hCG monotherapy could also be very reasonable trial.

 

[TLawyer]

I do note that Enclomiphene would be problematic in light of the recent FDA action, but I understand that Empower is still selling it. It could certainly be used temporarily to see if it helps get your son out of his current situation by raising his levels.

Also, as @madman has done a great job illustrating, Free T is really the key, not total testosterone. You didn't have his SHBG or Free T levels tested. He could have lower total testosterone levels, but if his Free T is in a healthy range, then probably best to look to something other than TRT to help resolve his issues.

 

[Deleted member 43589]

I have seen the anectodal reports of TRT helping to address depression symptoms as well as small studies which indicate such, both when testosterone was low and needed to be addressed regardless of depression symptoms. I haven't seen anything that would suggest in those that don't have low testosterone that TRT would be a better choice to address depression than something like Wellbutrin/Bupropion. I'm aware of the sexual issues caused by SSRIs and have seen lots of anectodal reports on people who claim that those problems linger after stopping, but I've never dug into them because I haven't had to ever go on them. All drugs have side effects (including testosterone), but I understand Wellbutrin/Burpropion is considered quite effective for depression with minimal side effects that can be quickly reversed after cessation. That's not necessarily the case with TRT, which one of the reasons why Big Tex's decision alarmed me.



I agree. I am not surprised at all based on his background that he put his son on testosterone treatment. My main issue is was it done responsibly and does his posting mislead those who don't know anything about TRT and come to this site for quality information and protocols think that jumping on TRT without proper blood tests and supervision and pursuing all other options is the best choice.

First off, as I understand it, this board is about sharing ideas with TRT and wellness, not passing judgement on what you feel is ethical. Who are you to determine if what I do is responsible? I could easily make the same accusations about your post misleading the many young men who visit this PUBLIC forum. Does your information have more quality than mine are you the expert to determine what blood test are the best choice? Then maybe you need to discuss this with my doctor who performed the exact same tests on me before writing my script. I have a feeling I know what he would say after spending 35 years as a medical doctor. Now, how responsible is it to tell the board and all who drop by to read that Wellbutri/Bupropioon are considered quite effective with minimal side effects? Is that you opinion? That is irresponsible as an ortho who told me to take Acetaminophen because it is much safer than aspirin. Hell, Acetaminophen is the #1 cause of acute liver failure in the US with 27% of people dying and kills at least 100,000 per year. I’ll take my chance with aspirin. Gee, aspirin also has anti-inflammatory effects Acetaminophen doesn’t have. I was taking it for inflammation in the joint. You would expect a medical doctor to be aware of the pharmacologics of over-the-counter medicine. Back to the Wellbutri/Bupropion

Wellbutrin Uses, Dosage & Side Effects - Drugs.com

Wellbutrin (bupropion) is used to treat major depressive disorder and seasonal affective disorder. Includes Wellbutrin side effects, interactions and indications.

www.drugs.com

Really, - Bupropion may impair your thinking or reaction. Great for a kid who is going to be driving big rigs on our highways you think? Here is more of the minimal side effects to look foward to:

• blurred vision;
• sleep problems (insomnia);
• tremors, sweating, feeling anxious or nervous;
• fast heartbeats;
• confusion, agitation, hostility;

Heck, I never had any of those symptoms from testosterone. Not even the hostility at high doses. In my irresponsible opinion those side effects are worse than the problem being treated.

Now, as someone else point out and I poked fun at. Yes I am very aware of it....the link between testosterone levels and dopamine. In fact, they seem to have a very bi-directional relationship. Low T can lead to an imbalanced of dopamine which can be linked to depression. How irresponsible is it to ignore that? Look up the research, it is there. On that's right depression and testosterone is anecdotal.

Again, you gave you the high and might power to judge me and pass judgment on my ability to be a parent? Or my knowledge base in TRT for that matter? Like the guy on a video who was a steroid source and got busted, in 2002 I actually worked as an advisor capacity for a wellness clinic my friend opened doing among other things TRT. It was located in the Woodlands of Houston. I guess I got asked to do that because I am clueless and irresponsible. Man, that was 20 years ago.

I had a "expert" cardiologist with a vitae as long as my leg suggest I take Spironolactone, long term to lower testosterone for blood pressure? Now there is some responsible advice from an expert. Even I knew men transitioning to women used that drug to block testosterone and increase estrogen. It would ahve turned this muscular 65 year old into a fat old woman with boobs. Kind of odd the patient has more pharmacological knowledge than the expert, huh? Same doctor that did not recognize the signs of a DVT when I went in with tachycardia and a swollen leg. He scheduled me for a nuclear stress test. My wife kind of wants to keep me but she is absolutely terrified of this American medicine. Pulmonary embolism anyone?

 

[Deleted member 43589]

True! I missed that. I was too focused on the administering of testosterone to someone with a normal level of T. However, I have had 250 mgs/ml compounded at a compounding pharmacy here in Australia. If my doctor wanted to order 300, they could also do this.
Perhaps why I did not pay much attention to it. Primoteston in Australia comes standard as 250 mgs/ml.

It always pays to pay attention. I always throw in little things that @readalot catches.

No pharmaceutical company in the world makes 300mg/ml test enanthate. It tends to crash badly unless you very good at doing it and add just the right amount of ethyl oleate. I have seen 350mg/ml done. But nothing is going to piss a customer off to have to put their testosterone in the microwave everytime they need to use it becuae it is nothing but crystals. Now, Bravo phama in Mexico made 250 years ago.

 

[Deleted member 43589]

The cost includes comprehensive blood testing (Free T, Prolactin, DHT, LH, FSH, etc.), which wasn't done here. It includes talking with a medical professional in the field who could talk about other options than jumping on TRT to raise testosterone levels for a young man, like lifestyle adjustments. A medical professional that could have talked about Natesto/nasal gel testosterone that wouldn't have shut down his system. Could have talked about trying Enclomiphene before going to TRT. I feel like that is very different advice than you gave him and well worth the extra cost.



See above. Using steroids for 40 years doesn't make you can expert on it. If you didn't know about Natesto or Enclomiphene, then I think that proves my point. 40 years ago injections were probably the only option, but not anymore.



You might need to find a new doctor who is an expert in the field.



Yes, I could see that as insulting. From what I have seen, most of the guys on those sites are abusing testosterone, not getting blood tests, relying on information passed along by other guys in the dark corners of the gym.



Have your blood tests been a complete TRT panel to give you the full picture of your health? Or just total testoterone and estradiol like you advised your son to take?



I believe that the TRT scope would include medical monitoring and proper blood tests.



My best friend is an anesthesiologist. I personally know him and have talked to him a lot about his practice and field. With that said, I'm in no way qualified to do what he does or answer someone's questions about anesthesiology.



I'm not trying to come off as a jerk here (that may be too late). I feel for your son having issues. My fear is that you've potentially made things worse and others would see your approach and believe that it's the way to go for TRT. I do believe that you're trying to help, and I do hope that he improves, but I think your approach here was misguided and could create more problems for him.

All things aside, you did come off like a pompas jerk. You also questioned my, his mother's decisions and my doctor who actually told me what test to buy for him. Oh did I forget to mention that? I did email him a week before we made our decision and asked him what test we needed. I went to LINK2LABS and purchased them, my wife paid t for them. Saved my (my wife and I), son a $200 doctor visit. Again, your fears and opinions are not needed. This board is about sharing ideas in TRT and not being a jack ass and telling people you know better, you are certainly not an expert. We all are capable of learing and it our decision on what we do, not yours. Whether or not you think it was a good decision is way beyond the scope fo this board and is very insulting. Buy the way, how much do you think all of those test would cost? My doctor doesn't do them all because he told me Medicare Advantage will not pay for them. In this case my son surely can't afford them. Not so worried about his system being shut down as I am about keeping him out of a morgue. So far so good. This is a parents worst nightmare. Anyway I will keep this updated and have noprobme admitting I was wrong it that is the case,

 

[TLawyer]

First off, as I understand it, this board is about sharing ideas with TRT and wellness, not passing judgement on what you feel is ethical. Who are you to determine if what I do is responsible?

This excellent board is about educating people. Lots of opinions, lots of people challenging those opinions. If you can express yours, I'm not sure why I can't express mine.

I could easily make the same accusations about your post misleading the many young men who visit this PUBLIC forum. Does your information have more quality than mine are you the expert to determine what blood test are the best choice? Then maybe you need to discuss this with my doctor who performed the exact same tests on me before writing my script. I have a feeling I know what he would say after spending 35 years as a medical doctor.

You won't have any problem finding postings on here about doctors who don't keep up in the field and are not doing a good job with providing care to their patients when it comes to TRT. I wouldn't go to a GP for my treatment. I chose Defy because of Dr. Saya's reputation in the TRT field. I base my opinion on the blood tests that he requires prior to and during TRT.

Now, how responsible is it to tell the board and all who drop by to read that Wellbutri/Bupropioon are considered quite effective with minimal side effects? Is that you opinion?

If you read what I wrote, yes, based on what I have seen. Do you really think it isn't?

That is irresponsible as an ortho who told me to take Acetaminophen because it is much safer than aspirin. Hell, Acetaminophen is the #1 cause of acute liver failure in the US with 27% of people dying and kills at least 100,000 per year. I’ll take my chance with aspirin. Gee, aspirin also has anti-inflammatory effects Acetaminophen doesn’t have. I was taking it for inflammation in the joint. You would expect a medical doctor to be aware of the pharmacologics of over-the-counter medicine.

Not sure I see the connection to TRT. I will say it is certainly important to have qualified doctors advising you when it comes to medical care. Much the same reason why I wouldn't want a GP handling my TRT protocol.

Back to the Wellbutri/Bupropion

Wellbutrin Uses, Dosage & Side Effects - Drugs.com

Wellbutrin (bupropion) is used to treat major depressive disorder and seasonal affective disorder. Includes Wellbutrin side effects, interactions and indications.

www.drugs.com

Really, - Bupropion may impair your thinking or reaction. Great for a kid who is going to be driving big rigs on our highways you think? Here is more of the minimal side effects to look foward to:

• blurred vision;
• sleep problems (insomnia);
• tremors, sweating, feeling anxious or nervous;
• fast heartbeats;
• confusion, agitation, hostility;

Heck, I never had any of those symptoms from testosterone. Not even the hostility at high doses. In my irresponsible opinion those side effects are worse than the problem being treated.

All drugs have side effects. I already pointed that out. Care to share the frequency of the side effects that you pointed out about Wellbutrin/Bupropion? Or point out that the side effects in many cases dissipate after continued use? And just because you haven't experienced a side effect on TRT doesn't mean others won't. I think maybe you could have considered Wellbutrin for your son rather than jumping to TRT.

Now, as someone else point out and I poked fun at. Yes I am very aware of it....the link between testosterone levels and dopamine. In fact, they seem to have a very bi-directional relationship. Low T can lead to an imbalanced of dopamine which can be linked to depression. How irresponsible is it to ignore that? Look up the research, it is there. On that's right depression and testosterone is anecdotal.

I also understand higher testosterone levels lead to higher dopamine levels. Part of that is what causes the "honeymoon effect" that many just beginning TRT talk about. Similar to how after one shot you are claiming that your son is cured and you were right to get him on TRT.

Again, you gave you the high and might power to judge me and pass judgment on my ability to be a parent? Or my knowledge base in TRT for that matter? Like the guy on a video who was a steroid source and got busted, in 2002 I actually worked as an advisor capacity for a wellness clinic my friend opened doing among other things TRT. It was located in the Woodlands of Houston. I guess I got asked to do that because I am clueless and irresponsible. Man, that was 20 years ago.

So did you post because you wanted everyone to agree with you and tell you how great you are or because you wanted legitimate views and opinions? You talk about this being a forum for view and opinions, and when I give mine, you lose it.

I'm not quite following your reference to a video and steroid source. I do think most would say that this field is very different than it was in 2002, including the new products and treatment options available. By chance did your friend do a full TRT blood panels at his wellness clinic before providing TRT to his clients and discuss all possible treatment options?

I had a "expert" cardiologist with a vitae as long as my leg suggest I take Spironolactone, long term to lower testosterone for blood pressure?

Illustrating the importance of finding qualified medical professionals and the need for doctors and patients to have open communication so that they can consider all relevant factors.

Now there is some responsible advice from an expert. Even I knew men transitioning to women used that drug to block testosterone and increase estrogen. It would ahve turned this muscular 65 year old into a fat old woman with boobs.

Well, this has taken quite a turn...

Kind of odd the patient has more pharmacological knowledge than the expert, huh? Same doctor that did not recognize the signs of a DVT when I went in with tachycardia and a swollen leg. He scheduled me for a nuclear stress test. My wife kind of wants to keep me but she is absolutely terrified of this American medicine. Pulmonary embolism anyone?

Sounds like you don't really like doctors. There are some good ones out there and some not so good ones. Some that are knowledgeable about TRT, and some that aren't and are only interested in total testosterone.

 

[Deleted member 43589]

Thank you for adding this. Your post makes more sense now. Also appreciate your comments on nasal gel. With proper LH confirmation, hCG monotherapy could also be very reasonable trial.

Oh by the way, I am sure you know I am very aware of both Natesto or Enclomiphene and as you figured I don't need the FDA's approval to get either one. Heck just today received a UPS shipment of 10 boxes of Chinese Euflexxa. $25 a box. I will have my ortho inject it next week. hGH would certainly be nice but my doctor will not prescribe it because of the FDA attenion it would draw. I already tried. @readalot with this great economy we have and the increase in groceries and gas I can't even afford my own hGH any longer and it comes pretty cheap.

 

[TLawyer]

All things aside, you did come off like a pompas jerk. You also questioned my, his mother's decisions and my doctor who actually told me what test to buy for him.

Again, did you post to have everyone just tell you that you are great and did the right thing, or did you also want opinions that might be contrary to yours?

Oh did I forget to mention that? I did email him a week before we made our decision and asked him what test we needed. I went to LINK2LABS and purchased them, my wife paid t for them. Saved my (my wife and I), son a $200 doctor visit.

Your doctor told you to get a non-TRT blood panel for your son. It shouldn't instill a lot of confidence in him, but that's just my opinion and not yours. You could have gotten a TRT panel from Discounted Labs for about the same price.

Again, your fears and opinions are not needed. This board is about sharing ideas in TRT and not being a jack ass and telling people you know better, you are certainly not an expert. We all are capable of learing and it our decision on what we do, not yours. Whether or not you think it was a good decision is way beyond the scope fo this board and is very insulting.

I shared my ideas and opinions regarding TRT and your son. I am far from an expert. You don't like my ideas and opinions because they are contrary to yours. If you don't want a view on what you did, don't post about it. I'm sorry that you're insulted by that.

Buy the way, how much do you think all of those test would cost?

You should swing by Discounted Labs and price them out.

My doctor doesn't do them all because he told me Medicare Advantage will not pay for them. In this case my son surely can't afford them. Not so worried about his system being shut down as I am about keeping him out of a morgue.

I'd get his care supervised by a medical professional. Seems like there is more than a testosterone issue here.

So far so good. This is a parents worst nightmare. Anyway I will keep this updated and have noprobme admitting I was wrong it that is the case,

I do hope everything works out for him. I also hope he gets in front of medical professionals who can help him, including with his TRT protocol.

 

[Deleted member 43589]

This excellent board is about educating people. Lots of opinions, lots of people challenging those opinions. If you can express yours, I'm not sure why I can't express mine

So did you post because you wanted everyone to agree with you and tell you how great you are or because you wanted legitimate views and opinions? You talk about this being a forum for view and opinions, and when I give mine, you lose it.

Opinions are one thing, but personal attacks insults are another. Yea, I kind of lost it when my ability to be a parent was questioned. By the way, when was it I said my son was CURED.? I kind of though I said my wife and I saw some positive signs already. Was it the testosterone or was it our kind loving parental advice. Who knows but I can find a low t clinic in Houston on every corner with experts and pay $300 - $400 and I can find out the truth, right.

You are correct, I do not like doctors very much. I go through quite a few of them to find one that I can sit in an office with more than 5 minutes, that goes for dentist and even eye doctors. So far in my life, two doctors and 1 orthopedic surgeon. Just so I am not perceived as strange, my wife is even worse. In fact, coming from what America refers to as a 3rd world country (Argentina) she has been very disappointed with American medicine and just hopes she never has to go to a hospital. Strange to hear when you live in Houston where the medical community is HUGE. But then she saw what poor medicine can do to a human when my father had spine surgery and died from the surgery. My mother never wanted to pursue a medical malpractice case. She also saw what poor medical advice did to my brother when every doctor he went to quickly prescribed him opiates leading to a horrible addiction for most of his adult life ending in suicide in front of his kids. None of these experts realized they were being played for a script? Then she realized how close I came to dying when my expert cardiologist from Debakey failed to recognize a DVT when a 1st year nursing student knows what the symptoms are. No, I am not so fond of most doctors. Most are more concerned with how many patients they can run through their office in a day as opposed to actually caring about patients health. I lost 2 family members because of shoddy medicine and am not going to chance losing another one. I trust do trust my doctor but not blindly.

 

[Hyrulewarrior1978]

i don’t think anyone is coming off a certain way, tbh. We are just concerned, and you wouldn’t have posted your story had you not wanted feedback or criticism. Tlawyer is making the point that again antidepressant is not a scheduled drug (and hence will have easier time coming off the drug) and is specifically directed at treating depression (your sons primary symptom). Again my vote is for talk therapy as I’m not a fan of pharmaceuticals either. Anyways try and understand we are offering our advice in order to prevent further harm.