T gel and aromatization

goga · Sep 17, 2017

Dr.Crisler considers the gels to be the best TRT choice. Yet, it failed with many people here.
Does the gel aromatize less?

Vince · Sep 17, 2017

Gels are more likely to elevate estrogen than injections. That is because aromatase lives in the skin, along with higher concentrations of 5-AR, which converts T to E. Gels also provide a greater boost in DHT levels then injections.

Vince Carter · Sep 17, 2017

goga said:
Dr.Crisler considers the gels to be the best TRT choice. Yet, it failed with many people here.
Does the gel aromatize less?

Fails because it has absorption issues and never really gets levels high enough when it does work. I'm unclear Vince's referenece to 5AR and E, 5AR converts T to DHT which is usually a reason that some guys can like topicals, the higher DHT conversion. As far as E...I don't know.

lexer · Sep 17, 2017

Gels are strange. The gels arent absorbed very well but all the 5 AR in the skin causes even a small amount of T to get converted to dht. You can have low T levels but high concentrations of dht.
This is where it gets complicated. Perhaps the dht will booste libido but energy, strength, and muscle will be sub par?

goga · Sep 17, 2017

Vince Carter said:
Fails because it has absorption issues and never really gets levels high enough when it does work. I'm unclear Vince's referenece to 5AR and E, 5AR converts T to DHT which is usually a reason that some guys can like topicals, the higher DHT conversion. As far as E...I don't know.

But why docs like Crisler (not only) prefer it?
As for DTH, is high value bad? I don't like Male Pattern Baldness it triggers, but other than that, is it good?

Vince Carter · Sep 17, 2017

DHT does not trigger MPB, which is 10X more about your genetics/family history. I don't know why Dr C has a pref for topicals, I can speculate but who knows.

Vince Carter · Sep 17, 2017

lexer said:
Gels are strange. The gels arent absorbed very well but all the 5 AR in the skin causes even a small amount of T to get converted to dht. You can have low T levels but high concentrations of dht.
This is where it gets complicated. Perhaps the dht will booste libido but energy, strength, and muscle will be sub par?

This is why it can be said that some guys feel better on topicals, they may never produce TT/FT numbers of injections but DHT can go along ways to restoring many things. It used to be said may even still be a treatment modality, but treating DHT as opposed to TRT in general, was typically well received.

ERO · Sep 17, 2017

The only way to know if gels work for you would be to try them for 6-8 weeks. Lots of guys have issues with absorption and never get decent Free and Total T #s, but other guys do just great with gel.

I switched to gel a couple months ago and 4 weeks in my Total T was 1200 so I had to drop my daily dose. With my very low SHBG I don't feel much different on gel vs injections, but I had no issues getting to a high Free T level. That may change over time - only time will tell.

madman · Sep 17, 2017

goga said:
Dr.Crisler considers the gels to be the best TRT choice. Yet, it failed with many people here.
Does the gel aromatize less?

Crisler prefers transdermal over im as he states quite simply that the serum testosterone levels produced by properly applied transdermal testosterone is quite variable across the day just like the testosterone of a young healthy male. Transdermal gels/patches most closely mimic the natural circadian rhythm as oppose to im. Video is old.

[video=vimeo;124213946]https://vimeo.com/124213946[/video]

Henry · Sep 17, 2017

I'm over 1300 on Androgel: https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...on-4-pumps-of-Androgel-and-500iu-s-of-hCG-EOD

Give it a try and see if it works out for you.

Davet · Sep 18, 2017

Absorption issues can be sorted with a moisturizer...I use an organic one which takes around the same time as the t-gel to be absorbed ..which I rotate the sites I use so I am always good to go. I do suffer from aromatisation so i have to keep this in check with a low dose of arimidex. But I have noticed as my body-fat levels have dropped I only need a low dose once a week. (.25mg)
Not everybody suffers from aromatisation issues so you wont know until you run it.....give it a shot.

FOX1 · Sep 18, 2017

goga said:
Dr.Crisler considers the gels to be the best TRT choice. Yet, it failed with many people here.
Does the gel aromatize less?

It hasn't failed with me, I have a reasonably accurate "higher limit" total testosterone using it, the first 6 months were monitored very regular so as to work out the correct dosage, since then my blood tests have settled in good.

Why use moisturiser's to aid absorption???? use more or less gel until correct dosage is established when you start, unless you have plenty time on your hands going down the route of adding moisturiser can be a pure pain,

if it works for you fine, but its not a thing I will be doing on a regular basis

lowe2sucks · Sep 18, 2017

Vince said:
Gels are more likely to elevate estrogen than injections. That is because aromatase lives in the skin, along with higher concentrations of 5-AR, which converts T to E. Gels also provide a greater boost in DHT levels then injections.

5-AR converts T to DHT not T to E2

OMI100 · Sep 18, 2017

I use a compounded 20%/ml TD cream. I use 1/2 gm/day. About a 1/4 teaspoon..... 30ml dispenser last for 3 months. Works great for me and relative low cost of a bit over $30.00 /month self pay. Waaaaaaaay to much bull to obtain with medical insurance. DR has waaaaay to many hoops to jump through and seems like the insurance companies are always making it harder and harder to meet their requirements....

lowe2sucks · Sep 18, 2017

who prefers test cream/gel (high concentration compounded stuff) over injections and vice versa?

madman · Sep 18, 2017

lowe2sucks said:
5-AR converts T to DHT not T to E2

Trust me Vince knows the aromatase enzyme is responsible for the conversion of T->E and 5a reductase enzyme converts T->DHT it may be confusing how he structured his post but if you read between the lines you will understand what he really said.

Davet · Sep 19, 2017

frosting

FOX1 said:
It hasn't failed with me, I have a reasonably accurate "higher limit" total testosterone using it, the first 6 months were monitored very regular so as to work out the correct dosage, since then my blood tests have settled in good.

Why use moisturiser's to aid absorption???? use more or less gel until correct dosage is established when you start, unless you have plenty time on your hands going down the route of adding moisturiser can be a pure pain,

if it works for you fine, but its not a thing I will be doing on a regular basis

At first I was getting poor absorption....my doc at the time was less than useless...on researching i could see i was getting what Dr J Crisler terms as frosting ...gel sitting on the skin and not absorbing...once I sussed this and started moisturizing ...bingo my T levels went up accordingly

captain · Sep 19, 2017

Giving the area of application a good scrub and use moisturizer's a couple of times a week will make a big difference. Spreading the gel out as far as it will go also increases levels. I used to think if I didn't spread it as much it would stay wet longer and more would get in but that is not the case. You end up with chemical burns and a coating of T gel. I use Fortesta on inside thighs and get good results. The skin on my thighs seem to take more in than the skin on my arms and shoulders do with the Androgel way. The thigh has more area to spread it to as well.