It’s just enclomiphene without zuclomiphene. General user reviews of it on here have been meh.
Stopping Testosterone Injections for Enclomiphene
- Thread starter DixieWrecked
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The biggest problem with both clomiphene and enclomiphene is that there is no proof of actual symptomatic benefit and that is why neither FDA nor the European agency EMA approved it. This is not some "conspiracy of Big Pharma" but elementary medical logic - they want demonstration of improvement not pointless increases in some lab values.
It is flat out suspicious to me that the maker of enclomiphene Repros did an elaborate study, measured it increased testosterone and then BAM no measurement of the actual improvement of sexual, physical, or psychological functioning. I wonder why .....
At the bottom I attached one "study" for the effectiveness of clomiphene:
Testosterone Supplementation Versus Clomiphene Citrate: An Age Matched Comparison Of Satisfaction And Efficacy
On their main graph above, there is NO difference in hypogonadal symptoms (the blue bars), measured by qADAM questionnaire (higher values = less symptoms), between hypogonadal men (age ~ 40) after being treated with testosterone, clomiphene (25mg/day), or NOT treated at all (Controls)!!! That was interpreted as 'clomiphene is as good as testosterone', when the correct conclusion from their graph is 'clomiphene is as good as nothing' LOL Of course the problem is first that the men considered were relatively young and did not have severe hypogonadal symptoms, and the second problem is qADAM because clearly it is not a good questionnaire - it gives same values for all groups, which invalidates the whole plain stupid 'study'.
It is flat out suspicious to me that the maker of enclomiphene Repros did an elaborate study, measured it increased testosterone and then BAM no measurement of the actual improvement of sexual, physical, or psychological functioning. I wonder why .....
At the bottom I attached one "study" for the effectiveness of clomiphene:
Testosterone Supplementation Versus Clomiphene Citrate: An Age Matched Comparison Of Satisfaction And Efficacy
On their main graph above, there is NO difference in hypogonadal symptoms (the blue bars), measured by qADAM questionnaire (higher values = less symptoms), between hypogonadal men (age ~ 40) after being treated with testosterone, clomiphene (25mg/day), or NOT treated at all (Controls)!!! That was interpreted as 'clomiphene is as good as testosterone', when the correct conclusion from their graph is 'clomiphene is as good as nothing' LOL Of course the problem is first that the men considered were relatively young and did not have severe hypogonadal symptoms, and the second problem is qADAM because clearly it is not a good questionnaire - it gives same values for all groups, which invalidates the whole plain stupid 'study'.
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is anyone getting side effects from Enclomiphene? I have insomnia with clomid and am hoping I don’t have a similar response with Enclomifene
You mean it is Clomiphene without zuclomiphene... and yes, it is WAY different because of that.
I don't see too many reviews of enclomiphene... here or elsewhere... I think it has great potential... maybe not to hardcore TRT guys... or guys using it only for PCT...
DixieWrecked
Well-Known Member
Yeah i don't think enclomiphene is going to give the same jolt as a test shot but I am over that. I don't need it or want it. I just want to feel normal and i believe having my LH and FSH working will help to make that happen.
The article I posted is the main source of the claim that 'clomiphene is as good as testosterone' and actually reading it and finding the opposite of what it claims in terms of symptomatic benefits is quite useful for people that only read the title or the abstract and that includes the media outlets.
Your conspiracy theories about the 'Big Pharma' are irrelevant because they are not based on any logic. The manufacturer has to prove effectiveness of drug in terms of actual benefit, not proxy lab values. They didn't, end of story!
You can increase your free T with enclomiphene BUT first it is not clear what the actual benefits will be. Blocking estrogen receptors all over the body clearly is not what mother nature intended and I doubt it will turn out good in the end.
Second, clomiphene is no longer used against breast cancer due to side effects - cataracts. Enclomiphene has zero long term studies of possibly the same side effects. If it works, one has to take it for life so good luck with that. But that is irrelevant to internet based 'bro-science'.
Your conspiracy theories about the 'Big Pharma' are irrelevant because they are not based on any logic. The manufacturer has to prove effectiveness of drug in terms of actual benefit, not proxy lab values. They didn't, end of story!
You can increase your free T with enclomiphene BUT first it is not clear what the actual benefits will be. Blocking estrogen receptors all over the body clearly is not what mother nature intended and I doubt it will turn out good in the end.
Second, clomiphene is no longer used against breast cancer due to side effects - cataracts. Enclomiphene has zero long term studies of possibly the same side effects. If it works, one has to take it for life so good luck with that. But that is irrelevant to internet based 'bro-science'.
Um can anyone answer my question about side effects of Enclomiphene (Insomnia etc)? And who cares if there are studies showing Enclomiphene isn’t effective. Guess what trt wasn’t effective for me, and I tried lots of different protocols. It’s all subjective.
I've been taking 12.5 mg daily for seven months with no obvious side effects. No effect on SHBG, a modest reduction in IGF-1.
blinblaugh
New Member
I tried enclomifene for a while having similar hopes of the OP. I didn't have any increase in LH, FSH, Test, etc. so I am back on TRT now. That is just one persons experience. I think it could work for some and not others Depending on what is causing your hypogonadism.
For those that stated it's an estrogen blocker... to be clear, clomiphene, zuclomifene, enclomifene, etc. are just selective estrogen receptor modulators (SERMS). It doesn't "block" estrogen. When the hypothalamus "sees" circulating endogenous estradiol it reduces GnRH, FSH, LH, etc. SERMS essentially prevent the hypothalamus from "seeing" the estradiol.
As far as symptoms, I didn't really have symptoms when on enclomifene. But then again, it didn't really do anything for me.
For those that stated it's an estrogen blocker... to be clear, clomiphene, zuclomifene, enclomifene, etc. are just selective estrogen receptor modulators (SERMS). It doesn't "block" estrogen. When the hypothalamus "sees" circulating endogenous estradiol it reduces GnRH, FSH, LH, etc. SERMS essentially prevent the hypothalamus from "seeing" the estradiol.
As far as symptoms, I didn't really have symptoms when on enclomifene. But then again, it didn't really do anything for me.
blinblaugh
New Member
No, it was legit. I got it prescribed by Defy and filled through them. I've also tried some other sources.
I have been taking it for a little over 3 weeks now and haven't noticed any side effects. I feel like it has been beneficial so far (drive, focus, libido), but I don't have any updated labs yet. Some of the benefits mimic what I experienced on TRT, so I presume that's a sign that it's related at least in part to increased T levels. I certainly feel better than I did before I started it, although I also started ibutamoren at the same time, so can't really say with certainly what has caused me to feel better. I recall reading studies where participants noted a subjective improvement in symptoms to go along with the objective improvements in their numbers. This forum is an incredible resource, but on the whole you're going to get a lot more people on here who haven't been able to correct their issues and are still trying than those who do (and then likely disappear). I asked Defy their patient success rate with Clomid and Enclomiphene (defined as seeing an improvement in symptoms), and they told me that they see it help about 50% of their patients.
DixieWrecked
Well-Known Member
blood work back 2 weeks after last shot and 5 days after starting enclomiphene
LH: 0.2
FSH: 2.2
TT: 364
Feel like a bitch but nuts are definitely lower and plumper. I think this is going to be rough. Little bit surprised that my FSH is considered within the normal range already
LH: 0.2
FSH: 2.2
TT: 364
Feel like a bitch but nuts are definitely lower and plumper. I think this is going to be rough. Little bit surprised that my FSH is considered within the normal range already
Clearly you need help with reading comprehension but nobody pays me to provide it so I will leave you with your theories of the FDA conspiracy against unproven drugs etc. Perhaps before you stuff yourself like a turkey with a drug you buy online, you should at least check the popular literature how it supposedly works.
Bodybuilders take ibutamoren (MK-677) to help them 'feel good' between steroid cycles. The fact you feel good on it does not mean it is due to enclomiphene.
DixieWrecked
Well-Known Member
Sammy and Tucson. Can you please stop?
I noted that I couldn't isolate the exact reason why I feel better since I'm taking both. I do note that you seem eager to attribute my feeling better because of ibutamoren but completely discount the possibility it could be from enclomiphene. My growth hormone levels were already at the high-end when I started, so tough to say whether increasing it even higher with the ibutamoren has had any real perceived benefit. I started it only because I have been trying to recover quicker from an injury. I'm keeping an open mind, seeing how I feel and getting blood tests to help gauge the impact of both. Both studies and leading medical professionals believe that enclomiphene can make a difference in some men, and I'm hoping that I'm one of them.
Just to be clear: Clomiphene has two isomers, enclomiphene and zuclomiphene. Enclomiphene is the estrogen antagonist that we want. Zuclomiphene is the estrogen agonist that we don't want. So, now we can try enclomiphene from Tailor Made Compounding, in either 12.5mg or 25mg strength. Defy is looking at adding Empower as an enclomiphene supplier as well, which is good news. I spent years on clomiphene with no side effects, better Total T numbers, bad Free T numbers due to higher SHBG, and no subjective improvement. I am now on testosterone cream. I am looking forward to giving enclomiphene a try due to its endogenous T production and convenience. We are all a little different. Watching you guys who are ahead of us on the enclomiphene testing and looking forward to seeing your results and experiences along the way. We are all in this together.
I will be starting 25mg daily Enclomiphene soon. I was on clomid and initially felt good, but then I started getting insomnia and feeling lousy. I never took a pill that made feel good one minute and bad the next. Weird. Anywho just chiming in.
Clomiphene is known to prevent and improve osteoporosis exactly due to estrogen AGOnism in bones, which hypothetically is conveyed by its zuclomiphene component.
If enclomiphene is really estrogen ANTAgonist everywhere in the body, including bones, it can lead to osteoporosis because it will then block the action of estrogen on bones. That applies to men too, not only to women.
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