So I tried daily injections...

[Nomad]

Its interesting how such "small" differences can produce such extreme difference in effect.

yeah, probably getting labs done later this week (4 months early) I’ve never felt better on TRT so I need to capture this on labs.

 

[xqfq]

I get what you’re saying, but it’s simply just not true. We’re all very unique in regards to how hormones effects us, and how sensitive we are to E2. Check out the estrogen roundtable episode, it will explain further. They report some men having E2 symptoms at 40, and others being able to tolerate a level of 300 no problem

I listened to that episode a while back and I wasn’t sure what to make of a lot of what they talked about. They continually mixed up the units for E2 which made me really confused. E.g. 300 pmol/L is 81 pg/mL which seems more reasonable as something some men could tolerate. They confused ng/dL with pg/mL at one point as well. But they never convinced me of what units they were using. They both agreed “yeah, ng/dL sorry” but that can’t be the case— 300 ng/dL e2 levels..got to be impossible!

 

[antelopers]

We are all human beings with the same basic metabolic systems. There are alot of guys who say they feel great and this and that... the majority of them are not in tune and self aware enough to notice whats going on with their bodies. The optimal protocol whatever it is, would work with 99% of males with some minor tweaks.

Ok but there are some things that would be objective and not subjective? For example, erections. Some guys have no problem getting erections with high E2 and for others it's soft. Gynecomastia is another.

 

[Tokumei]

Ok but there are some things that would be objective and not subjective? For example, erections. Some guys have no problem getting erections with high E2 and for others it's soft. Gynecomastia is another.

Ok but there are some things that would be objective and not subjective? For example, erections. Some guys have no problem getting erections with high E2 and for others it's soft. Gynecomastia is another.

That would be because of different dht:e2 ratios. High e2 is not a problem. Too much e2 relevant to DHT is and problems with erections WILL occur.

 

[antelopers]

That would be because of different dht:e2 ratios. High e2 is not a problem. Too much e2 relevant to DHT is and problems with erections WILL occur.

In that case, there can't be an optimal protocol for 99 percent of males.

 

[Tokumei]

In that case, there can't be an optimal protocol for 99 percent of males.

Not sure how you came to that conclusion from my response.

 

[antelopers]

Not sure how you came to that conclusion from my response.

Because of these 2 contradictory statements.

We are all human beings with the same basic metabolic systems. There are alot of guys who say they feel great and this and that... the majority of them are not in tune and self aware enough to notice whats going on with their bodies. The optimal protocol whatever it is, would work with 99% of males with some minor tweaks.

That would be because of different dht:e2 ratios. High e2 is not a problem. Too much e2 relevant to DHT is and problems with erections WILL occur.

Different conversion rates to dht and e2 would count as differences in their metabolic system and the way they process hormones. Take a look at how different everyone's response is in their labs. There's no protocol that would work for 99 percent of men.

Also it's laughable to claim that every single male on the planet who is totally healthy and feeling great while not inside of what your opinion of optimal. Sure.

 

[Tokumei]

Because of these 2 contradictory statements.




Different conversion rates to dht and e2 would count as differences in their metabolic system and the way they process hormones. Take a look at how different everyone's response is in their labs. There's no protocol that would work for 99 percent of men.

Also it's laughable to claim that every single male on the planet who is totally healthy and feeling great while not inside of what your opinion of optimal. Sure.

 

[Tokumei]

Because of these 2 contradictory statements.




Different conversion rates to dht and e2 would count as differences in their metabolic system and the way they process hormones. Take a look at how different everyone's response is in their labs. There's no protocol that would work for 99 percent of men.

Also it's laughable to claim that every single male on the planet who is totally healthy and feeling great while not inside of what your opinion of optimal. Sure.

I said that as a response as to why those guys would have reacted differently to different e2 levels? Ie the guy who was fine with e2 at 300 would have certainly had very high free t and dht levels. Anyway we all process hormones the same way the only difference is at slightly different rates.

 

[antelopers]

I said that as a response as to why those guys would have reacted differently to different e2 levels? Ie the guy who was fine with e2 at 300 would have certainly had very high free t and dht levels. Anyway we all process hormones the same way the only difference is at slightly different rates.

The term "slightly different" is very misleading though. The "slight difference" can dictate whether a guy needs 8mg of daily cyp vs 200mg every 7 days, to needing HCG or not, to needing an AI or not. When you're talking about the entire range of what works for men on TRT, it's not a slight difference. It's the full range that we work with.

It would be impossible based on all this variation to say that a single optimal protocol would work for 99 percent of men, unless that protocol was described as loosely as "50 to 200mg per week of different possible esters in 1-7 doses, with or without HCG at varying levels in 1-7 doses, and with or without Anastrozole in varying frequencies and doses as well as possibly other ancillary drugs."

You can't dismiss every single case of working trt protocols as people being out of touch with their body.