So I tried daily injections...

[Gman86]

I've been doing 100 mg to 150 mg T-Cyp E3.5D for about a year, with the dosage changes at the doc's recommendation depending on lab results. My Total and Free T are always around the high end of the range, but my E is always up around 50 [8-35]. SHBG ranges 30 - 35. About 3 weeks ago I switched to EOD just to see if I could get my E down a bit. Subjectively I feel no different. My only complaint has been some acne on my forehead since starting T-Cyp. So far the acne is still there, but seems to be getting better. I haven't had to use any acne meds since switching to EOD.

Are you gonna stay on the EOD protocol at least until you get labs done?

 

[Tokumei]

Ya it’s just interesting how there’s guys on here that go to daily and their E2 shoots up. And there’s so many guys that don’t get super anal about things, just do the standard once a week injection, and feel great. I actually work with a woman that’s in her 60’s, and just found out last month that her husband takes testosterone. He’s been on it for a few years. She’s a nurse, and is the one that injects him. She said she injects him once every 2 weeks. She said he feels pretty good, and has no complaints.

Obviously everyone is different, and there apparently are some guys that feel optimal on daily injections, which confuses things. I just wish we were all more similar and what worked for one guy worked for every other guy! Lol.

We are all human beings with the same basic metabolic systems. There are alot of guys who say they feel great and this and that... the majority of them are not in tune and self aware enough to notice whats going on with their bodies. The optimal protocol whatever it is, would work with 99% of males with some minor tweaks.

 

[Gman86]

We are all human beings with the same basic metabolic systems. There are alot of guys who say they feel great and this and that... the majority of them are not in tune and self aware enough to notice whats going on with their bodies. The optimal protocol whatever it is, would work with 99% of males with some minor tweaks.

Unfortunately I highly doubt this is true. Although, Dr Lichten reports that he has most of his men on very similar protocols. 120-140mg of test/ week, 40-60mg of nandrolone/ week, and in some patients he also adds 25mg of Winstrol/ week

 

[Vtail]

We are all human beings with the same basic metabolic systems. There are alot of guys who say they feel great and this and that... the majority of them are not in tune and self aware enough to notice whats going on with their bodies. The optimal protocol whatever it is, would work with 99% of males with some minor tweaks.

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Are you gonna stay on the EOD protocol at least until you get labs done?

Yes - definitely. But I can already tell I don't like EOD. Between work and family, my life can get pretty hectic, and there have already been days where I'm not sure if I injected yesterday or not. So for me, I think ultimately it will either be every day (nothing to keep track of) or E3.5D. If this little experiment works and I get rid of the acne, then going forward I will probably continue with ED. If not, then I'll go back to E3.5D.

 

[Gman86]

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Yes - definitely. But I can already tell I don't like EOD. Between work and family, my life can get pretty hectic, and there have already been days where I'm not sure if I injected yesterday or not. So for me, I think ultimately it will either be every day (nothing to keep track of) or E3.5D. If this little experiment works and I get rid of the acne, then going forward I will probably continue with ED. If not, then I'll go back to E3.5D.

So are you going to continue EOD until you get labs, or are you going to switch to ED and then get labs?

 

[Vtail]

So are you going to continue EOD until you get labs, or are you going to switch to ED and then get labs?

I will continue EOD for 6 weeks, get labs and reassess from there.

 

[Gman86]

I will continue EOD for 6 weeks, get labs and reassess from there.

No subjective differences so far after going to EOD injections?

 

[Vtail]

No subjective differences so far after going to EOD injections?

Nope. But I must admit that I'm not as sensitive to changes as other guys here. I am amazed at how some guys can feel the difference when E is high or low, or with/without HCG, or ED vs EOD vs E3.5D, etc. I guess I'm just a dull dude . . . My only problem is forehead acne, so I shouldn't complain.

 

[Tokumei]

Unfortunately I highly doubt this is true. Although, Dr Lichten reports that he has most of his men on very similar protocols. 120-140mg of test/ week, 40-60mg of nandrolone/ week, and in some patients he also adds 25mg of Winstrol/ week[/

Nope. But I must admit that I'm not as sensitive to changes as other guys here. I am amazed at how some guys can feel the difference when E is high or low, or with/without HCG, or ED vs EOD vs E3.5D, etc. I guess I'm just a dull dude . . . My only problem is forehead acne, so I shouldn't complain.

Every single male on earth is extremely sensitive to changes in estradiol. Its simply you not being in tune enough to pick up any changes.

 

[Cataceous]

Every single male on earth is extremely sensitive to changes in estradiol. Its simply you not being in tune enough to pick up any changes.

Try again. The average young male can have estradiol varying daily by +/-10% about the mean.

 

[Tokumei]

Try again. The average young male can have estradiol varying daily by +/-10% about the mean.

Yes, i meant big swings outside the normal variation as seen with infrequent injections. 10% variation seems about right for estrogen And my natural bloods confirm that, always around the same number give or take a few points. Dht and e2 do not fluctuate like test does.

 

[Cataceous]

Yes, i meant big swings outside the normal variation as seen with infrequent injections. ...

I've done some modeling work which suggests that infrequent injections can cause higher peak estradiol than frequent injections, even when the testosterone peaks are the same. This comparison might apply when contrasting weekly injections of testosterone cypionate with daily injections of propionate—or with natural levels in young males.

 

[Nomad]

On ED injections of Test P right now. The difference in success between 20mg ED and 24mg ED is night and day. My libido is insane night and day @24. On 20, I was barely horny with no morning wood.

 

[Gman86]

Every single male on earth is extremely sensitive to changes in estradiol. Its simply you not being in tune enough to pick up any changes.

I get what you’re saying, but it’s simply just not true. We’re all very unique in regards to how hormones effects us, and how sensitive we are to E2. Check out the estrogen roundtable episode, it will explain further. They report some men having E2 symptoms at 40, and others being able to tolerate a level of 300 no problem

 

[Tokumei]

I get what you’re saying, but it’s simply just not true. We’re all very unique in regards to how hormones effects us, and how sensitive we are to E2. Check out the estrogen roundtable episode, it will explain further. They report some men having E2 symptoms at 40, and others being able to tolerate a level of 300 no problem

Its not my opinion, its science. I got the information from Dr Mariano. Estradiol in male humans has a very tight window for variation, anything outside this variation and we begin to have problems, We are all the same in regards to how hormones effect us, the only difference is we all metabolise at slightly different rates, nothing drastic though. There are no special snowflakes amongst us when it comes to these powerful hormones. And giving an e2 number is absolutely pointless, as its all about the dht:e2 ratio, saying a guy can tolerate 300 e2 means nothing as we dont know his t and dht levels and how much its variating.

 

[Gman86]

Its not my opinion, its science. I got the information from Dr Mariano. Estradiol in male humans has a very tight window for variation, anything outside this variation and we begin to have problems, We are all the same in regards to how hormones effect us, the only difference is we all metabolise at slightly different rates, nothing drastic though. There are no special snowflakes amongst us when it comes to these powerful hormones. And giving an e2 number is absolutely pointless, as its all about the dht:e2 ratio, saying a guy can tolerate 300 e2 means nothing as we dont know his t and dht levels and how much its variating.

Good point about the DHT to E2 ratio. There’s definitely something to that. I think it’s a huge reason why the creams are so effective.

 

[equel]

On ED injections of Test P right now. The difference in success between 20mg ED and 24mg ED is night and day. My libido is insane night and day @24. On 20, I was barely horny with no morning wood.

Its interesting how such "small" differences can produce such extreme difference in effect.

 

[Appassionato]

Its interesting how such "small" differences can produce such extreme difference in effect.

It's a 20% dose increase, not really a small difference.

 

[Tokumei]

Thats a good point you make and thats why we need to be very accurate when drawing up dosage because a even a couple of lines off on the syringe can be a quite a dose difference when using 200-250mg/ml test and that can throw things off.

 

[Charliebizz]

Unfortunately I highly doubt this is true. Although, Dr Lichten reports that he has most of his men on very similar protocols. 120-140mg of test/ week, 40-60mg of nandrolone/ week, and in some patients he also adds 25mg of Winstrol/ week

Yeah for his patients with auto immune issues. He is not a trt dr he uses hormones to treat other chronic illness. He treats way more sick people then most of us