results from new protocol

[RickB]

I was taking 200mg cypionate a week with 6.25mg exemestane twice a week for quite a while and had good numbers on paper. They were a little high for madman's way of thinking, but nothing crazy. Symptoms wise I wasn't getting all that much out of trt and was eating a lot.

I then stopped trt for a 35 days and restarted with a protocol of 100mg cypionate every 5 days, no AI.

After 50 days on this protocol, 19.5 hours before absolute trough, my results are:

Total 974 ng/dL (193-740)
SHBG 33.5 nmol/L (19.3-76.4)
Albumin 4.9 g/dL (3.5-5.2)
Estradiol 36.6 pg/mL (11.3-43.2)

According to the method they used, my calculated free is 213.7 pg/mL (38.7-147). According to formula I used my free is 21.4 ng/dL, which from previous experience would probably be my free T direct if they'd done that assay (which they usually do).

So these results are pretty good on paper. They're a little premature of course, and I'm seeing the doctor on Aug 2 and will get tested again. Symptom wise I'm less hungry than I'd been on previous protocols and have more energy, but I have zero sex drive. Try to masturbate and barely get up to half mast. That area was better with my previous protocol, but my life circumstances were much different and could account for a lot. Regardless, under neither protocol was I even getting morning wood (unless it was cold) and never got waking erections without foreplay or extreme concentration.

I probably won't change protocols at all if my results are similar on Aug 2, as I think these sex issues are almost certainly down to something other than androgens. But is there anything that stands out about these results to suggest they're not as good as they seem? I think madman will say I'm still taking too much. Anyone else have any ideas?

 

[RickB]

I woke up today (day 55) with with morning wood despite warm temperature in room, so maybe this protocol holds some promise.

 

[Vince]

To me your numbers look excellent. Have you ever tried not using AI or exemestane. You may feel better with higher E2.

 

[RickB]

To me your numbers look excellent. Have you ever tried not using AI or exemestane. You may feel better with higher E2.

Other than when I first started trt four years ago, this is my first time with no AI. They are no longer an option due to terrible elbow tendonitis which did not go away until I stopped taking them.

Not sure if I'm getting anywhere sexually on this protocol, but this morning was a good sign. I've had my estradiol this high before even on AI's, but I do believe the lack of an AI might have a positive affect beyond what's directly reflected on an E2 blood test.

 

[Mastodont]

Your through still seems little too high considering it's still pretty infrequent injection schedule, why not give lower numbers a go...

 

[RickB]

Your through still seems little too high considering it's still pretty infrequent injection schedule, why not give lower numbers a go...

As a matter of fact the last couple days I've found myself overeating again, which may not be related at all but is something I've wrestled with since starting trt. I'm going to cut back to either e6d or e7d.

 

[Mastodont]

As a matter of fact the last couple days I've found myself overeating again, which may not be related at all but is something I've wrestled with since starting trt. I'm going to cut back to either e6d or e7d.

exogenous testosterone seems to have interaction with ghrelin, not sure if direct or not

 

[RickB]

I stayed with e5d, with the exception being 5.5 days at the end of July in order to stay on a schedule of the 5th, 10th, 15th, etc.

Today is day 91, which is the culmination of 13 weeks. Last injection was on August 25. This has been the longest I've ever stuck with one protocol.

Despite some slightly positive signs early on, I haven't gotten anything tangible out of this. I got some bloodwork done yesterday simply because I had a requisition I had never used (will post results when I get them). Regardless of the results, I'm quitting.

Since starting trt in November 2020, I've been off twice, for over two months each time, and didn't mind being shut down. However this time I would like to get back to baseline asap. I have a uro appt tomorrow and will request HCG.

I know there's a ton of info here and a ton online in general, but any opinions on a good post-trt HCG protocol would be much appreciated. Thanks!

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Can you refresh our memory on why you began TRT in the first place? What labs and symptoms led you down this path?

 

[Systemlord]

I probably won't change protocols at all if my results are similar on Aug 2, as I think these sex issues are almost certainly down to something other than androgens.

Maybe you need a surge in androgens (topical T cream) to bypass whatever is preventing you from getting the full benefits of TRT. Dr. Rob has mention before about low receptor density and heavy metal toxicity and or bilipid membrane inflammation and how a surge in androgens can help bypass any resistance at the cellular level.

I had the same problem on injections as you, not so on oral testosterone.

 

[RickB]

Can you refresh our memory on why you began TRT in the first place? What labs and symptoms led you down this path?

No sex drive. No morning erections. No spontaneous erections. Needed viagra for satisfying sex and still usually didn't enjoy it.

My urologist approved me due to those symptoms and results of normal total, low-normal free, high-normal SHBG, low-normal estradiol.

I just got yesterdays results. They're peak.

total 1318 ng/dL (264-916)
free 20.3 pg/mL (7.2-24.0)
E2 34.0 pg/mL (7.6-42.6)

Other than the total being too high, these numbers are good. My body and my mind are not letting the T do its job. My body composition is good (the one reason I thought of possibly staying on), but half the time my muscles feel like jelly, and I can't get into any rhythm when it comes to working out. Sex is as bad as ever, in fact the other day my penis actually hurt during and after. That was a first. The only concrete thing I have from the T is a voracious appetite. Luckily I think the T has me burning as much as I'm gaining, but I'd rather cut out the middle man and go back to not stuffing myself on the daily.

Edit: Burning roughly as much as I'm gaining, not more. Kind of staying around the same weight overall.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Sex is as bad as ever

What have you tried as far as different protocols and adjustments to improve this? hCG? propionate? scrotal cream? DHEA? These are a handful of ideas that individually or in combination have brought men's sexuality back from the dead on TRT. I wouldn't personally throw in the towel on TRT before exhausting them.

 

[RickB]

What have you tried as far as different protocols and adjustments to improve this? hCG? propionate? scrotal cream? DHEA? These are a handful of ideas that individually or in combination have brought men's sexuality back from the dead on TRT. I wouldn't personally throw in the towel on TRT before exhausting them.

I haven't tried anything other than various T protocols with and without AI. I know that might sound lazy, but I have OCD and am afraid that if I start adding options, I will never stop until I've exhausted every last one.

Also, I don't have Rx insurance, so some options would just be too costly even if they worked. For instance I don't mind being on HCG to get reset, but I wouldn't want to be on it regularly. Then again, maybe I might, if it actually works for my situation. It's been so long since I have been anywhere near normal sexually that in many ways I've forgotten how great it can be.

I just can't stand overeating. And I know it's in my hands. I control it. Regardless of how much the T is spurring that, when it comes down to it, it's up to me to just stop gorging myself. But the thought of dropping the T and bringing my appetite back to normal is so tempting compared to actually doing the work and stopping binging.