Restart after 12 month TRT ?

[Speed]

My natural T before TRT was around 350 (great libido, but low energy for the past few month before starting it).
Now I want to try a restart and see how I feel. I was using HCG alongside T all the time (250-500IU 2-3x week)
I am familiar with this "standard" pct protocol https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...olics-You-May-Want-to-Read-this-HPTA-protocol

but, I would like to try restart with low dose of Tamoxifen and Clomid and see how it goes. I will not use HCG. I think I do not need it, because I was using it all the time (Am I correct ? )

So, I was thinking about:
1. 10mg of tamoxifen and 12.5mg clomid ED before sleep (10 days after last T shot of 100mg)
2. Check the labs after two weeks on this protocol (T, free T, LH)
3. Continue with this protocol if LH is not in the upper range or above it.

What are your thoughts ?
I'm 25. My T was 350 when I first check it when I was 20. Never had libido problems, until starting TRT, which is killing me right now, and can't stand mood, ED, swings, and very difficult to manage it for me. So, this is a reason I want to try restart. The most easy thing is to go back on TRT again.

 

[Vince]

Speed, you are very young for TRT. I wonder do you know why your T was so low, 350 is very low for a 25 year old man. That would be my first concern "why testosterone so low".

 

[Speed]

My morning 8am blood cortisol is always almost double than normal. 4pm cortisol on the high end of normal range. Morning prolactin on the higher end,but 1pm prolactin good. Also, LH almost every time when I checked, on the higher end, sometimes, above.
So, probably, I'm primary hipogonadal. Really, don't know.... Also, SHBG was on the low end always, maybe my T of 350 is enough for me... Who knows....
So I began TRT to improve cortisol to T ratio.

And, here where I live, no saliva cortisol test. Only blood and urine tests...

 

[CoastWatcher]

You are looking to restart even though you believe you have primary hypogonadism??

 

[Speed]

You are looking to restart even though you believe you have primary hypogonadism??

My T before TRT, was low, but in range, like I said 3.5ng/ml. Maybe, I was too rush into TRT, because before TRT I NEVER had ED problems that started on TRT. I was able to have sex 5+ time a day and only first month on TRT was wonderful, but later on fatigue,ED just, hard to manage E2,I went too low or too high... could not stand it anymore. I only did not try every day injection protocol on my trt journey. I'm 3rd day now on restart protocol with 12.5mg of clomid and 10mg of Tamoxifen before bed and TODAY I was horny like never before and masturbated almost whole day and had 10 orgasms. I was horny before trt but 8 orgasms/day was a record. I realy don't know what is going on. Maybe T kicking again, but I think this is too early. I'm going to check lh and T next week.

 

[CoastWatcher]

My T before TRT, was low, but in range, like I said 3.5ng/ml. Maybe, I was too rush into TRT, because before TRT I NEVER had ED problems that started on TRT. I was able to have sex 5+ time a day and only first month on TRT was wonderful, but later on fatigue,ED just, hard to manage E2,I went too low or too high... could not stand it anymore. I only did not try every day injection protocol on my trt journey. I'm 3rd day now on restart protocol with 12.5mg of clomid and 10mg of Tamoxifen before bed and TODAY I was horny like never before and masturbated almost whole day and had 10 orgasms. I was horny before trt but 8 orgasms/day was a record. I realy don't know what is going on. Maybe T kicking again, but I think this is too early. I'm going to check lh and T next week.

What did your doctor say when you started TRT? What were your blood levels - LH and FSH - prior to starting hormone replacement?

 

[Speed]

I'm self medicating. My parents are Drs, but they're not familiar with TRT... FSH was good, LH on top of the range, sometimes a little above top. Only benefits of TRT for me were strenght in a gym and muscle gains but with so many side effects, including high hematocrit, brainfog, fatigue, water retention.... Sometimes I felt great on TRT, but that feeling did not last too long on the same protocol. I will try this "natural" way and if it doesn't work for me, I'll be forced to go back on trt again and try to find perfect protocol for me, but it became so frustrating for the last month or two...

 

[CoastWatcher]

I'm self medicating. My parents are Drs, but they're not familiar with TRT... FSH was good, LH on top of the range, sometimes a little above top. Only benefits of TRT for me were strenght in a gym and muscle gains but with so many side effects, including high hematocrit, brainfog, fatigue, water retention.... Sometimes I felt great on TRT, but that feeling did not last too long on the same protocol. I will try this "natural" way and if it doesn't work for me, I'll be forced to go back on trt again and try to find perfect protocol for me, but it became so frustrating for the last month or two...

Why are you self-medicating? Do you live outside the US? I am not judging, simply trying to understand your situation. For example, what make you think your dealing with primary hypogonadism? What blood work did you use to draw that conclusion?

 

[Jackie Treehorn]

My T before TRT, was low, but in range, like I said 3.5ng/ml. Maybe, I was too rush into TRT, because before TRT I NEVER had ED problems that started on TRT.

Your Test was in range for whom? An 80 yr old man with diabetes?

Do yourself a huge favor, and seek professional help. By professional help, I mean TRT doctors that do this for a living...like the kind you'll find at Defy Medical.

No disrespect, but it sounds like you don't know what you're doing, and you're playing a guessing game with regard to protocol. You seriously need someone like Dr. Saya or Crisler to analyze your bloodwork, and interview you in order to come up with a safe, sane game plan to get you dialed in, and feeling great.

 

[Speed]

Tnx for reply, but...
I'm not from USA, and T protocol in my country is 250mg of T every two to three weeks. I do not need a doctor for that out of date protocol.
I wrote here about my protocols. Most successfu so far was

100mg subq 2xweek + 500IUHCG 2x week +0.25 arimidex 1xor2x week

But, good feeling on this protocol lasted only for a month, and EVERY protocol I tried was successfull only for a short period of time. Bloodwork was great T, E2, TSH, FT3,FT4. But, generaly I was feeling very bad. And, when I was feeling good, I had ED/libido problems. Only on rare days everything was set mentaly....
Only a first month on TRT was phenomenal and Dr Crisler wrote in his book how many of his patients feel great for the first month on TRT because of Dopamine rush.

I will keep you updated about my restart protocol and I'll be on TRT sooner or later but don't have energy and time for experimenting right now. Like I said the last few month were so hard for me on TRT...

 

[ipi]

Speed I had same sort of issues but I am on it for 3 months now. I am 46. One thing you mentioned was that your prolactin was high in the am and low later. I always did my prolactin test in the am or before noon and it was double the upper normal range. The issue is that the doctor is treating me based on this test and if it varies then I need to know when to get the right value. Is your strength back with clomid or just the lbido part is improving. I am on HCG only right now and my doctor wants me to try clomid in 2 weeks plus medication for high prolactin which I may not need, if I find out what time to test it?

 

[Speed]

7 days after tamoxifen (10mgED), clomid (12.5mgED) and 25mg DHEA ED.
ashwagandha jarrow 300mg 2x day

LH <0.1 ( 0,8-7,6 mlU/ml)
T 1.13 (2.8 - 8 ng/ml )
So, Hypothalamus-Pituitary still supressed

Funny thing is, I feel great mentally and masturbate or have sex a few times a day with great libido end rock hard erections I'm already weaker physically but all water weight is gone and no more moon face.
I'm upping clomid to 50mg ED before bed (tamoxifen the same 10mg and 25mg DHEA)

New labs on januarry 11, 2016.

 

[Vince]

Speed, it's nice that your libido is so strong. Personally I would stop taking dhea, I believe it will raise your estrogen and lower your testosterone, in men who are not on trt.

 

[Speed]

Speed, it's nice that your libido is so strong. Personally I would stop taking dhea, I believe it will raise your estrogen and lower your testosterone, in men who are not on trt.

My DHEA-S is around 200, that's the reason I started to supplement low dose before bed, and also defy recommends it in restart protocol
http://defymedical.com/blog/item/14...-safely-and-possibly-reset-youir-hormone-axis
My father is on 100mg of dhea daily and his test is around 4-5 ng/ml and estradiol 20 pg/ml.

I'm taking multivitamins also, 30mg of zinc glycinate, magnesium, fish oil, a lot of fatty red meat. Gym is now only 3x week with heavy weights, low rep.

 

[Vince]

Personally before I started TRT, I tried using DHEA. For me the more dhea I used, the higher my estrogen rose and the lower my testosterone fell. I don't know if I can find the thread, but I did post my results.

 

[Speed]

Third day on 50mg clomid a day and feel like shit...... Ten more days and bloodwork. Waiting for good LH and will throw out this shitty drug