By the way when I started TRT initially sub q worked fine. Until it stopped working as good and my levels fell two things happened:
It is very difficult to analyze about that. But from my subjective experience it is not only the levels. IM somehow works more like testosterone is expected to work. Hard to explain, but if you are not dialed in the first thing I would do on your place is to ditch the sub q for good and start doing proper IM injections with long enough needle to go into the muscle(3/4 inch will do it provided you are not 30+ percent boey fat in that case for the leg locations - 1 inch) Ventroglute is the best site for me, you can also include delts into the rotation.
It's a lot easier to say "hundreds and hundreds" than it is to name them. Can you even find a couple dozen who have done multiple trough measurements on both SC and IM at the same dose and frequency? Of course one measurement in a multi-day injection cycle does not give you area under the curve, which is the actual measure of absorption. Differences in curve shapes are expected, with peaks generally lower and troughs generally higher when switching from IM to SC. So are you claiming the opposite—which at least seems possible if there are unexpected absorption rates—or are you saying that testosterone is lower throughout the cycle with SC? But with most guys taking only one measurement in a cycle you don't really know, do you? And if you are claiming poorer absorption with SC then there's the problem of the missing testosterone. Where did it go? The absorption paths are pretty well characterized. Are you hypothesizing some new pharmacokinetics that the studies missed? What are they? The plausibility is lacking.
I have no idea what’s going on between SQ and IM tbh lol. All I know is over the years I’ve seen hundreds and hundreds of men say they didn’t feel good on subQ, compared to IM, and then they would go back to IM and feel better. Some of them would get labs before switching back, and it always seemed that their numbers were lower than when they were on IM. I honestly have no clue about any of the science behind why this happens. I just know sometimes it does. But for some men they notice no difference going from IM to subQ. And then I’m sure there’s some men that feel better going to subQ from IM. All I’m saying is that if there’s any studies out there, with enough participants, and for enough of a length of time, that shows that SubQ is going to result in the same exact levels as IM, 100% of the time, the study is clearly flawed. If that doesn’t exist in real life, it can’t exist in a study, unless the study is flawed or manipulated.
And yet you feel qualified to label studies as "flawed or manipulated" if they don't conform to your subjective impression of anonymous forum comments?
I have tried for a few days 100mg pregnenolone when I initially started TRT. I stopped it cause it made me terrible sleepy. If I start preg now I would start at around 25mg and try to go to 50.
@Nelson Vergel, noooooo! You were my hope that cream might work for me! Like you, I did awesome on it until I wasn't doing awesome any more. I was waiting for you to come back around and figure out how to make the cream work! Oh well. I am still working on things, trying to manipulate one variable at a time.
As I understand he doesnt feel bad from the scrotal cream, he just doesnt want the overhead to apply that thing twice a day when he can do two shots per week instead. I totally understand his motives. The cream is very unpractical, but for someone who feela really better on it it is worthy.
I think @Cataceous is making some excellent points and I fully support his position. All he is saying is that science matters. I agree. Science is merely a way we answer questions and make predictions about the natural world. Today's body of science is an evolution of hundreds of thousands of years of humans who once gazed at the sky and wondered: what is up there? That's it. Things like DNA and RNA didn't "exist" until the 1950's. Thanks to scientists dedicated to helping, solving, curing and understanding, we can now do things that were unimaginable 70 years ago. Science and the studies that report scientific discovery is not by nature perverted and driven by money hungry, conflicted mad-scientist like some here would like to think. It can be inconvenient to read a study that is conflict with your personal experience, but that does not mean it's not good data. Skeptics should not blindly discount information because it was derived in a scientific manner.
I highly recommend the hydrogel testosterone cream for those who like daily applications. There was nothing wrong with it. I would apply two clicks on scrotum and one click on chest if I have to use it again.
This test measures the effect of adding hCG to TRT without having to wait 8 weeks to collect a sperm sample. Here is information:
www.excelmale.com
Haha nah it isn’t like that. I’m just saying that studies showing that subQ injections will 100% result in the same levels as IM injections isn’t what we see in real life. Just stating an objective fact, nothing more. For me to say whether a study is manipulated or flawed I’d have to assess each study individually
What time of day was your second application? I don’t wanna do it too late in the day to interfere with sleep.
This is how I felt on the cream as well. In theory is seems easier and more practical, but it was the exact opposite for me. I inject EOD, and that is waaaayyyy more practical and easy for me than cream was. I ended up hating to have to apply the cream in the morning, wait a little for it to dry, then obv worry about activities ur going to do a few hours after, like sex or swimming, or anything where ur gonna be sweating a lot, and then having to worry about repeating this whole process over again later in the day, usually while at work. Idk why I didn’t think of all these cons prior to starting. Guess I got caught up in the hype. Either way, it’s soooo much easier to just take 5 mins in the morning EOD to inject and be done and not have to worry about anything
Definitely inconvenient, but how did it work? Was it beneficial for mood/energy/libido?
Hey whatever works. All that matters is u get that sweet sweet testosterone in ur system one way or the other lol
@Nelson Vergel , you used a Pregnenolone supplement that is in a lipid matrix, that will by pass the liver, and that is why your Progesterone did not increase. The same happens when using a Pregnelonone cream, for the same reason, by passing the “first pass” in the liver.
