Systemlord
Member
I’m the only regular forum member on oral testosterone, Jatenzo @237 mg twice daily, which is the recommended starting dosage.
The last total testosterone was at 401 ng/dL at nine hours, well past my midpoint (6 hours) which is when you’re supposed to test.
That would put my true midpoint in the 600-700 range. I’m noticing higher levels on the carnivore diet probably related to eating foods high in fat which is what’s required to absorb Jatenzo.
I had taken a massive dose of iron supplements for three years when I didn’t need it, so my CBC and red blood cells are still declining.
I won’t know where my levels will end up for a couple of months. As for what oral testosterone has done for me, just click on the link below and see for yourself.
Liver tests are all normal, on the lower end.
www.excelmale.com
The last total testosterone was at 401 ng/dL at nine hours, well past my midpoint (6 hours) which is when you’re supposed to test.
That would put my true midpoint in the 600-700 range. I’m noticing higher levels on the carnivore diet probably related to eating foods high in fat which is what’s required to absorb Jatenzo.
I had taken a massive dose of iron supplements for three years when I didn’t need it, so my CBC and red blood cells are still declining.
I won’t know where my levels will end up for a couple of months. As for what oral testosterone has done for me, just click on the link below and see for yourself.
Liver tests are all normal, on the lower end.
My Experience On Jatenzo (Oral TRT) Log
I wanted to start a thread detailing my personal experience with Jatenzo (oral TRT) which is remarkable in how quickly it has shown results when compared with injections. The first week on Jatenzo was very pleasant unlike my experience after dosing changes on injections, all with minimal swings...
www.excelmale.com
Last edited:
Did it change your SHBG @Systemlord
Systemlord
Member
I’m a type 2 diabetic, so my SHBG increased 11->24.
Nelson Vergel
Founder, ExcelMale.com
I am taking Kizatrex for 3 weeks. So far, so good.
www.excelmale.com
KYZATREX (oral testosterone undecanoate) now available in all states across the US
https://www.kyzatrex.com/prescriber.html KYZATREX (testosterone undecanoate) is an oral testosterone replacement therapy specifically designed for adult males with conditions associated with a deficiency or absence of endogenous testosterone, such as primary hypogonadism and hypogonadotropic...
www.excelmale.com
Systemlord
Member
What dose?I am taking Kizatrex for 3 weeks. So far, so good.
KYZATREX (oral testosterone undecanoate) now available in all states across the US
https://www.kyzatrex.com/prescriber.html KYZATREX (testosterone undecanoate) is an oral testosterone replacement therapy specifically designed for adult males with conditions associated with a deficiency or absence of endogenous testosterone, such as primary hypogonadism and hypogonadotropic...
Systemlord
Member
No, men on injections are going to be more likely to experience high hematocrit and hemoglobin and topicals and orals are the least likely to experience these issues.
Only a very small percentage of men in the oral testosterone trials experienced secondary erythrocytosis.
DorianGray
Active Member
What is your (anyone on oral) free T relative to total?
madman
Super Moderator
I am taking Kizatrex for 3 weeks. So far, so good.
KYZATREX (oral testosterone undecanoate) now available in all states across the US
https://www.kyzatrex.com/prescriber.html KYZATREX (testosterone undecanoate) is an oral testosterone replacement therapy specifically designed for adult males with conditions associated with a deficiency or absence of endogenous testosterone, such as primary hypogonadism and hypogonadotropic...
Glad to hear.
Just a matter of time before you gave this a go LOL!
3 weeks in well past steady-state hope things turn out for the best.
Would be interesting to see where your TT, FT, and DHT sit let alone what impact it has on your SHBG and hematocrit!
Left out estradiol as I know you mentioned that you always struggled with low e2 and had added it to your protocol to bring your levels up.
madman
Super Moderator
You stated:
If you want to rid yourself of having problems with secondary erythrocytosis, thus forcing donation and crashing of ferritin levels, the newer oral testosterone options, Jatenzo, Kyzatrex and Orlando in the clinical trials had zero cases of secondary erythrocytosis due to the PK profiles!
Glad this post sunk in your dome!
Low Iron & Ferritin - Blood Test
I donate blood because I always have high HCT on TRT(150 per week/split Mon & Thurs). My HCT usually runs around 53-54 if I'm behind on donation. Blood test was 1 month after last blood donation. Doc's thoughts was to not take iron supplement, to just let things ride for now. No symptoms other...
www.excelmale.com
madman
Super Moderator
post #2
Enhancing Men's Health: The Role of Health Apps.
In this episode of Backtable Urology Podcast, Ken Mitchell MPAS, PA-C, a certified physician associate, speaks about the role of interprofessional collaboration in treating male sexual dysfunction and infertility. First, Ken highlights his journey into men’s health, sparked by the debut of...
www.excelmale.com
Low Iron & Ferritin - Blood Test
I donate blood because I always have high HCT on TRT(150 per week/split Mon & Thurs). My HCT usually runs around 53-54 if I'm behind on donation. Blood test was 1 month after last blood donation. Doc's thoughts was to not take iron supplement, to just let things ride for now. No symptoms other...
www.excelmale.com
*mean increases from baseline in hematocrit were observed in both treatment groups at each study visit but remained within the normal range in most men (97% oral TU; 100% topical T).
*Shifts from normal hematocrit values at baseline to above the normal range were observed in 3% of oral TU patients at the final visit, compared with none of the topical T patients
Erythrocytosis Associated With Oral Testosterone Replacement
Abstract Background A growing prevalence of male hypogonadism has led to increased interest in the most common adverse event, erythrocytosis. Defined by hematocrit (HCT) > 49-51%, the incidence varies depending on the testosterone formulation.3 The formulations with the lowest risk of...
www.excelmale.com
*The formulations with the lowest risk of erythrocytosis are intranasal testosterone (0-2%) and oral testosterone (0.03%).3 A phase 3 clinical trial of testosterone undecanoate (Jatenzo) reported 4.8% patients experienced an increase in hematocrit, although not severe enough to warrant therapy discontinuation.2
Testosterone Therapy and Erythrocytosis - the most common dose-limiting effect of testosterone therapy
https://www.thebloodproject.com/cases-archive/testosterone-therapy-and-erythrocytosis-2/ Introduction Androgens play a crucial role in the development and maintenance of: Male reproductive and sexual functions Body composition Erythropoiesis Muscle and bone health Cognitive function...
www.excelmale.com
- Risk/rate of erythrocytosis according to formulation:
- Intramuscular injections – 40%
- Subcutaneous pellets – 35%
- Transdermal – 15%
- Androgel – 3%
- Intranasal testosterone – 0–2%
- Oral testosterone – 0.03%
- Risk/rate of erythrocytosis according to formulation:
Oral Testosterone Replacement Therapy
Oral Testosterone Replacement Therapy: What’s Available and What Took so Long? Introduction The field of testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) has witnessed remarkable growth and demand in recent years. While injectable and topical forms remain popular, other types of TRT including oral...
www.excelmale.com
Looking Ahead
The market now boasts a wide range of commercially available options, including novel oral formulations with favorable safety profiles and no liver toxicity concerns. However, it remains crucial to monitor blood pressure in patients prescribed oral TRT.
FDA-Approved Oral Testosterone: Jatenzo (Testosterone Undecanoate)
The U.S. Food and Drug Administration today approved Jatenzo (testosterone undecanoate), an oral testosterone capsule to treat men with certain forms of hypogonadism. These men have low testosterone levels due to specific medical conditions, such as genetic disorders like Klinefelter syndrome or...
www.excelmale.com
Oral TU offers a safe and effective long-term treatment option for men with hypogonadism
Two-Year Analysis of a New Oral Testosterone Undecanoate (TU) Formulation in Hypogonadal Men: Efficacy, Impact on Psychosexual Function, and Safety (2022) Stanton Honig, MD, Marc Gittelman, MD, Jed Kaminetsky, MD, Christina Wang, MD, John K. Amory, MD, Nestor Rohowsky, MA, Robert E. Dudley...
www.excelmale.com
testosterone gel and the liver
Do you know if testosterone gel is milder on the liver than injections? As we know, the oily injections may not be harmless for the liver.
www.excelmale.com
madman
Super Moderator
No.
As of now there is no oral native testosterone that has been licensed for TRT.
Diurnal has already developed a novel oral NT formulation, research is still ongoing but I have not heard any updates since 2022 regarding the Phase 2 study.
Oral native testosterone
Abstract Context: There is no licensed oral Native Testosterone (NT) because of challenges in the formulation. Licensed oral formulations of the ester, testosterone undecanoate (TU), require a meal for absorption and generate supraphysiological dihydrotestosterone (DHT) levels. Objective: To...
www.excelmale.com
*In the 1970s, a micronized form of free testosterone was demonstrated to be absorbed in hypogonadal men but absorption was not reliable enough to progress as therapy (14). Further research, particularly by Amory and coworkers, showed that native testosterone administered as a suspension in oil, provided potentially therapeutic levels of testosterone in healthy men (15), and combined with 5αreductase inhibitors provided physiological testosterone levels both in the fasted and fed state (16). Native testosterone is practically insoluble in water and in fatty oil vehicles (22), and the challenge has been to develop a solution formulation that contains sufficient testosterone concentration to provide reproducible physiological testosterone levels in hypogonadal men. Building upon the previous observations, we have developed a lipidic solution formulation of native testosterone and have tested it in dogs and humans in the fasted and fed state.
*Diurnal’s DITEST™ product is a formulation of unmodified testosterone that seeks to avoid the issues of poor bioavailability by using a proprietary, oil-based excipient mixture. It has not been reported on how this excipient mixture avoids the issue of first-pass metabolism, but Diurnal has reported results from a Phase I study (n=25, 24 completed treatment) that showed similar pharmacological parameters to testosterone undecanoate, but without the food effect.
Discussion
We have developed an oral lipidic formulation of native testosterone in a solution that provides physiological levels of testosterone and DHT when taken with or without food. The preclinical study in dogs showed that the oral lipidic NT formulation showed less variability in absorption between the fasted and fed state compared to TU and that very little TU was absorbed in the fasted state, confirming previous results in the literature (26). The results for the NT formulation was confirmed in hypogonadal men where the NT formulation showed similar pharmacokinetics when taken fasted or fed and the ratio of DHT to testosterone was lower for NT than TU.
It is known that native testosterone is absorbed orally but because of the extensive presystemic metabolism in the gastrointestinal tract and rapid first-pass metabolism in the liver, a high dose is required to replace physiological circulating serum testosterone levels (1). This is compounded by the fact testosterone is practically insoluble in water and fatty acid oils (22), so it has been challenging to generate a solution formulation of testosterone with a testosterone concentration sufficient to replace circulating testosterone levels. We have addressed this by generating a lipidic solution formulation where testosterone is held in solution in the oil phase through the addition of co-solvents: ethanol and benzyl alcohol. The formulation is stable at room temperature for up to 2 years and provides reproducible physiological testosterone levels in hypogonadal men.
post #4
DITEST™- Oral Native Testosterone
https://www.diurnal.com/Investor/news/successful-outcome-of-oral-testosterone-clinical-study DITEST™ In addition to its hydrocortisone products, Diurnal’s is also developing a novel formulation of testosterone for the treatment of hypogonadism. Male hypogonadism is defined as testosterone...
www.excelmale.com
Your only options would be oral esterified TU (Jatenzo, Tlando or Kyzatrex) and even then depending on your insurer you may run into issues.
Can't get it up... Ferritin that is. Blood issues after 5 years. HCG related question. Labs attached.
I have been on TC for over 5 years with varying results, mostly positive until the last year. I have had to do a few blood donations within the last 3 years due to rising HCT. It dropped my ferritin levels to 10, range 30 - 400. I can't get my ferritin levels up. My Mayo PCP said that if I take...
www.excelmale.com
*The insurance hurdle can easily be overcome as one can skip the hassle and pay out-of-pocket for any of the oral TU (Jatenzo, Tlando and Kyzatrex) formulations
davidandrade
New Member
Hello Nelson,I am taking Kizatrex for 3 weeks. So far, so good.
KYZATREX (oral testosterone undecanoate) now available in all states across the US
https://www.kyzatrex.com/prescriber.html KYZATREX (testosterone undecanoate) is an oral testosterone replacement therapy specifically designed for adult males with conditions associated with a deficiency or absence of endogenous testosterone, such as primary hypogonadism and hypogonadotropic...
50 year old male here with low T about to start TRT for the first time. I just received my Kyzatrex and will be taking 200mg twice a day for a total of 400mg a day. I see you are trying Kyzatrex as well and seem to like it. Any pros and cons over injections you have noticed thus far?
How much HCG would you suggest using alongside the 400mg a day of Kyzatrex and what would be the dosing interval? Thanks very much for your input!
madman
Super Moderator
post #2
Enhancing Men's Health: The Role of Health Apps.
In this episode of Backtable Urology Podcast, Ken Mitchell MPAS, PA-C, a certified physician associate, speaks about the role of interprofessional collaboration in treating male sexual dysfunction and infertility. First, Ken highlights his journey into men’s health, sparked by the debut of...
Low Iron & Ferritin - Blood Test
I donate blood because I always have high HCT on TRT(150 per week/split Mon & Thurs). My HCT usually runs around 53-54 if I'm behind on donation. Blood test was 1 month after last blood donation. Doc's thoughts was to not take iron supplement, to just let things ride for now. No symptoms other...
*mean increases from baseline in hematocrit were observed in both treatment groups at each study visit but remained within the normal range in most men (97% oral TU; 100% topical T).
*Shifts from normal hematocrit values at baseline to above the normal range were observed in 3% of oral TU patients at the final visit, compared with none of the topical T patients
Erythrocytosis Associated With Oral Testosterone Replacement
Abstract Background A growing prevalence of male hypogonadism has led to increased interest in the most common adverse event, erythrocytosis. Defined by hematocrit (HCT) > 49-51%, the incidence varies depending on the testosterone formulation.3 The formulations with the lowest risk of...
*The formulations with the lowest risk of erythrocytosis are intranasal testosterone (0-2%) and oral testosterone (0.03%).3 A phase 3 clinical trial of testosterone undecanoate (Jatenzo) reported 4.8% patients experienced an increase in hematocrit, although not severe enough to warrant therapy discontinuation.2
Testosterone Therapy and Erythrocytosis - the most common dose-limiting effect of testosterone therapy
https://www.thebloodproject.com/cases-archive/testosterone-therapy-and-erythrocytosis-2/ Introduction Androgens play a crucial role in the development and maintenance of: Male reproductive and sexual functions Body composition Erythropoiesis Muscle and bone health Cognitive function...
- Risk/rate of erythrocytosis according to formulation:
- Intramuscular injections – 40%
- Subcutaneous pellets – 35%
- Transdermal – 15%
- Androgel – 3%
- Intranasal testosterone – 0–2%
- Oral testosterone – 0.03%
Oral Testosterone Replacement Therapy
Oral Testosterone Replacement Therapy: What’s Available and What Took so Long? Introduction The field of testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) has witnessed remarkable growth and demand in recent years. While injectable and topical forms remain popular, other types of TRT including oral...
Looking Ahead
The market now boasts a wide range of commercially available options, including novel oral formulations with favorable safety profiles and no liver toxicity concerns. However, it remains crucial to monitor blood pressure in patients prescribed oral TRT.
View attachment 44776FDA-Approved Oral Testosterone: Jatenzo (Testosterone Undecanoate)
The U.S. Food and Drug Administration today approved Jatenzo (testosterone undecanoate), an oral testosterone capsule to treat men with certain forms of hypogonadism. These men have low testosterone levels due to specific medical conditions, such as genetic disorders like Klinefelter syndrome or...
View attachment 44777Oral TU offers a safe and effective long-term treatment option for men with hypogonadism
Two-Year Analysis of a New Oral Testosterone Undecanoate (TU) Formulation in Hypogonadal Men: Efficacy, Impact on Psychosexual Function, and Safety (2022) Stanton Honig, MD, Marc Gittelman, MD, Jed Kaminetsky, MD, Christina Wang, MD, John K. Amory, MD, Nestor Rohowsky, MA, Robert E. Dudley...
testosterone gel and the liver
Do you know if testosterone gel is milder on the liver than injections? As we know, the oily injections may not be harmless for the liver.
Throw this in there too!
A phase III, single-arm, 6-month trial of a wide-dose range oral TU (Kyzatrex) product
Abstract Background Oral testosterone undecanoate (TU) formulations may provide effective, safe, and easily titratable testosterone replacement therapy. Objective Demonstrate efficacy and safety of a novel oral TU formulation. Design An open-label, single-arm, multi-center trial treated...
www.excelmale.com
Adverse events
Red blood cell mass
Mean Hgb was 14.7g/dL at baseline, 15.1g/dL at Day 90, and 15.2g/dL at Day 180, for a mean increase of 0.5 g/dL, appearing to plateau between 90 and 180 days of treatment. There were 21 (14.7%) study participants with Hgb values greater than the upper limit of the lab normal range (16.9 g/dL) at the final study visit. Three participants (1.9%) had a TEAE of increased Hgb, with maximum values of 18.7, 17.1, and 18.0 g/dL. As noted earlier, Hgb was used as an index of red blood cell mass.
Results of liver enzymes and blood chemistry
There was no clinically significant change in mean values for LFTs throughout the study. There were also no trends over time in the percent of participants LFT values between 1–2×,2–3×, or > 3× the ULN for alanine transaminase (ALT), aspartate trans-aminase (AST),alkaline phosphatase (ALP), or bilirubin. One participant had elevated LFT values prior to the start of dosing and withdrew at Day 120 because of persistent elevation (ALP, ALT, and AST). There were no clinically significant changes in blood urea nitrogen, creatinine, sodium, potassium, or calcium.
Results of lipid profiles
From baseline, total cholesterol decreased 11.1 mg/dL (−5.2%), low-density lipoprotein cholesterol decreased 4.0 mg/dL (−0.8%), high density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol decreased 6.9 mg/dL (−14.0%), and triglycerides decreased 18.6 mg/dL (−1.2%). The median decrease from baseline for triglycerides was 6.0 mg/dL (−6.1%)
madman
Super Moderator
KYZATREX (oral testosterone undecanoate) now available in all states across the US
Did you get any nasty side effects by the way? None. I am looking at all the warnings and one of them says increase risk of death. That's a load of sh**! There's an increase risk of death living life, like crossing the street. There's increase risk of death with any other medicines.
www.excelmale.com
madman
Super Moderator
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