Check out this video with Dr. William Seeds, who is the president of the peptide society. Apparently MK-677 is known for being a sub-par alternative to HGH. It is known for causing a lot of bloat, water retention, lethargy and numbness in fingers, most likely due to the water retention/ bloat. Peptides like Ipamorelin, tesamorelin and CJC-1295 are the much preferred alternatives to HGH. They come with all the benefits, with very little to no sides, and are a good balance between efficacy and cost.
Oral growth hormone enhancer MK-677 (ibutamoren)
- Thread starter Nelson Vergel
- Start date
littlemanb
Member
How much per month do those other growth hormone releasers cost? I was paying $160.00 per month for MK677 with all the negative sides..the pharmaceutical HGH was $260.00 a month for 1 IU a day with no sides and all the same benefits (they just took a bit longer to notice due to lower dose). The cost was a little more but my doctor is very conservative and it is the real thing..if you can afford it I would definitely recommend the real pharmaceutical grade HGH any day..why do you want to use it anyways?
My IGF-1 came back at 190, which imo is way too low. It’s been getting lower and lower over the years, and it’s just time to start improving my growth hormone levels.
According to Dr. Seeds, using GHRH analogues like CJC-1295 or Tesamorelin, along with GHRP’s like ipamorelin, are much healthier for you than injecting pharmaceutical grade HGH, and can yield the same results as HGH, if not better.
As far as pricing goes, I’m not sure. My appt with defy is next Tuesday, and I’ll find out how much Empower’s Ipamorelin is. Empower doesn’t offer CJC-1295 or Tesamorelin, so I’m going to see if defy can write a script to tailor made pharmacy where they have both, if I’m not mistaken. I might try calling tailor made to see if they’ll release their pricing for both peptides.
littlemanb
Member
How old are you? I’m 55 and my IGF-1 was 130 prior to starting TRT (mid range for my age). After starting TRT it went up to 190 (top end for my range)..I then started HGH and it increased my IGF-1 to between 260-270..I feel pretty good at that number..my recovery and healing has been great along with the other benefits..it did take me about 5-6 months before I really started to notice the difference..it works great with my TRT..I’ve been on TRT just over a year now and HGH for about 7 months..I’m still seeing and feeling the changes in my body..there are no real studies at what levels IGF-1 should be at but my doctor who has been prescribing his patients HGH for about 10 years now has noticed for a cost/benefit ratio that his patients got the best bang for their buck when their IGF-1 levels were around 300..I’m pretty close at 270..my doctor says I will see slow changes on my low dose over the next 12-18 months..I don’t know about those other releasers but I’m happy with the real HGH..I hope it works out for you..keep this thread updated..I would love to know your results..
Thank you so much for that info! Very very helpful. HRT is so new. But the main thing that I’m realizing on my journey is that we have to optimize all hormones to be optimal, not just pick and choose which hormone imbalances to address. Testosterone is just one. It’s not more important than any of the others. They’re all equally as important to address. Just like the thyroid, growth hormone deficiencies are extremely underlooked, and have so many other benefits than the usual ones we all know about, including improvements with depression, anxiety, overall mood, etc. Anytime you improve sleep, everything is going to improve. But thank you for posting what you did about where you feel good in the range, and where your doctor likes people in the range. Extremely helpful. Makes sense. I would imagine it’s just like testosterone. Most guys would probably do well with their growth hormone levels near the top of the range, or a little above.
I’m 33, to answer your question. And I’ll aboslurely keep this thread and the forum updated once I’m on the peptides for a while. But make sure to watch the video above with Dr. Seeds. It seems like downregulating your own production of growth hormone with synthetic HGH might have some long term unwanted consequences, and it might be smarter to use peptides to encourage your body to produce more growth hormone on it’s own. Plus the peptides don’t downregulate your own production. But then again, if what you’re doing is working, may not be smart to mess with it. Either way, glad you’re doing well, and thank you very much for the info above. It was very helpful.
Nelson Vergel
Founder, ExcelMale.com
Anamorelin | Just like MK-677, but slightly different
Triathletes become considerably faster if they use an easily absorbable form of quercetin. Supplementation with quercetin also helps these athletes to recover more quickly and suffer less from muscle pain and cramps.
www.ergo-log.net
Nelson Vergel
Founder, ExcelMale.com
LUM-201 ibutamoren Elicits Greater GH Response Than Standard GH Secretagogues in PGHD
Objective To compare GH responses to an oral GH secretagogue, LUM-201 (ibutamoren, formerly MK-0677) and standard GH stimulation tests used for diagnosis of pediatric growth hormone deficiency (PGHD) Introduction LUM-201 is an orally administered agonist of the growth hormone secretagogue...
www.excelmale.com
Nelson Vergel
Founder, ExcelMale.com
These are side effects that HGH also has. None of those peptides are more effective than HGH for fat loss. And most of the HGH induced weight gain is extracellular water. The only proven benefit of HGH has been reduction of visceral fat.
There’s something with the constant pulsing of GH that happens with MK-677 tho that is unnatural to the body and results in increased side effects. We’re not supposed to have a constant bleed of GH throughout the day. It’s supposed to be pulsed. That’s why peptides with DAC is a no no as well. It causes a bleed effect, which is not what u went when it comes to growth hormone
nodoctor
Active Member
From lots of boards and lots of research (for whatever that's worth) it seems pretty clear to me that Ipamorelin with cjc (no dac) just before bed and maybe right after workout is the right way to go.
***What I can't figure out is why more people don't mix peptides. I'm super delicate with them, and it's way more convenient than drawing lots of syringes. I'm not reconstituting and storing my Ipamorelin, cjc w/o dac, bpc 157, and bp500 all in one vial. Measured super carefully and treated super gently/carefully. Anyone see an issue with that?***
For what it's worth, these 4 have been life-changing. There are good, seemingly reputable sources, not super expensive, and literally I heal so fast I can work the same body part hard like 24-48 hours later after a workout that should have left me sore for 4-5 days. Also bodyfat reduction, muscle increase, better sleep, better skin, better hair...I'm probably preaching to the choir.
***What I can't figure out is why more people don't mix peptides. I'm super delicate with them, and it's way more convenient than drawing lots of syringes. I'm not reconstituting and storing my Ipamorelin, cjc w/o dac, bpc 157, and bp500 all in one vial. Measured super carefully and treated super gently/carefully. Anyone see an issue with that?***
For what it's worth, these 4 have been life-changing. There are good, seemingly reputable sources, not super expensive, and literally I heal so fast I can work the same body part hard like 24-48 hours later after a workout that should have left me sore for 4-5 days. Also bodyfat reduction, muscle increase, better sleep, better skin, better hair...I'm probably preaching to the choir.
Lockout888
Member
Those that have tried MK677 - what are some quality brands that have a good reputation?
I tried Supreme Labs in the past, and want to try a different brand (capsules in the US).
I tried Supreme Labs in the past, and want to try a different brand (capsules in the US).
Deleted member 43589
Well-Known Member
When you consider the price of hGH and the price for MK-677 the side effects are pretty easy to control. I can promise you I have had lot of bloat, water retention, lethargy and numbness in fingers on 4iu of hGH. I have had it just as bad using modified GRF 1-29 and GHRP-2. But anyway you figure it, peptides are much less expensive.
This idea that GH bleed is bad came from DatBTrue and has been shuffled around the internet for years. hGH doesn't cause GH bleed, it elevated blood GH levels, MK-677 stimulates a greater total 24 hour GH production rate. CJC 1296 with DAC is the only one that causes the "GH bleed."
Effects of an oral ghrelin mimetic on body composition and clinical outcomes in healthy older adults: a randomized trial - PubMed
Over 12 months, the ghrelin mimetic MK-677 enhanced pulsatile growth hormone secretion, significantly increased fat-free mass, and was generally well tolerated. Long-term functional and, ultimately, pharmacoeconomic, studies in elderly persons are indicated.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
The only reason why GH bleed can be a problem is Somatostatin rises with constantly high GH levels and eventually blunts the natural pulse response. However, if you use a GHRP with the CJC 1295 w/DAC you can avoid this. I know lots of guys who have been very successful doing 2mg of CJC 1295 w/DAC per week with a GHRP. High levels of serum GH are very productive in athletics because of the increase in IFG-1. As soon as GH levels returrn to normal the pulsation process continues anyway.
Close mate of mine is using MK-677 at 10mg daily. The guy now has insane hunger almost 24/7 (previously, he couldnt put down enough food to gain weight). This hunger side effect is actually the primary reason he is taking it, to bulk on it.
For this reason alone, many have found MK to be unusable. Where GH can be used to lean out, the vast appetite caused by MK is counter productive to this.
For this reason alone, many have found MK to be unusable. Where GH can be used to lean out, the vast appetite caused by MK is counter productive to this.
Wow, insane hunger on 10mg. With 15mg before bed, I just have the munchies but not what I'd call hunger. I have found that chocolate wafers with almonds and sea salt help satiate them while being reasonable. I don't want the fat weight, and I do functional workouts with my Inspire SF3, powerblocks, and resistance bands. With all that I still think my body composition scale is lying to me.
Last edited:
Deleted member 43589
Well-Known Member
MK-677 mimics the action of the hormone ghrelin, as do all the GHRP's except for Ipamorelin. We all know ghrelin causes hunger. I know a pro-bodybuilder that use to order GHRP-6 during the off-season just to stimulate hunger. Unfortunately for me, it does not have this effect at all. I am trying to gain some weight.
Deleted member 43589
Well-Known Member
I wanted to add this to the "GH bleed" comments made in reference to MK-677 use just to further explain the actions of MK-677. Like ALL GHRP's, MK-677 binds to the ghrelin receptor and was found to not only enhance the pulsatile release of GH but also act as an antagonist to somatostatin allowing for GH levels to remain elevated (1,2). Remember, when serum GH/IGF-1 levels get too high, homeostasis is reached by releasing somatostatin which shuts blunts the natural GH pulses. You can not reach the same level of pulses with GHRH (sermorelin, GRF-1-29, CJC, CJC w/DAC etc) unless you add either a GHRP or MK-677 to it.
1. Karydis I, Tolis A, Tolis G. New GH secretagogues and potential usefulness in thalassemia. J Pediatr Endocrinol Metab. 1998;11 Suppl 3:857-862.
2. Adunsky A, Chandler J, Heyden N, et al. MK-0677 (ibutamoren mesylate) for the treatment of patients recovering from hip fracture: a multicenter, randomized, placebo-controlled phase IIb study. Arch Gerontol Geriatr. 2011;53(2):183-189.
1. Karydis I, Tolis A, Tolis G. New GH secretagogues and potential usefulness in thalassemia. J Pediatr Endocrinol Metab. 1998;11 Suppl 3:857-862.
2. Adunsky A, Chandler J, Heyden N, et al. MK-0677 (ibutamoren mesylate) for the treatment of patients recovering from hip fracture: a multicenter, randomized, placebo-controlled phase IIb study. Arch Gerontol Geriatr. 2011;53(2):183-189.
molonlabedoc
Member
Had to reply, because of Dat. I do miss that forum.When you consider the price of hGH and the price for MK-677 the side effects are pretty easy to control. I can promise you I have had lot of bloat, water retention, lethargy and numbness in fingers on 4iu of hGH. I have had it just as bad using modified GRF 1-29 and GHRP-2. But anyway you figure it, peptides are much less expensive.
This idea that GH bleed is bad came from DatBTrue and has been shuffled around the internet for years. hGH doesn't cause GH bleed, it elevated blood GH levels, MK-677 stimulates a greater total 24 hour GH production rate. CJC 1296 with DAC is the only one that causes the "GH bleed."
Effects of an oral ghrelin mimetic on body composition and clinical outcomes in healthy older adults: a randomized trial - PubMed
Over 12 months, the ghrelin mimetic MK-677 enhanced pulsatile growth hormone secretion, significantly increased fat-free mass, and was generally well tolerated. Long-term functional and, ultimately, pharmacoeconomic, studies in elderly persons are indicated.
The only reason why GH bleed can be a problem is Somatostatin rises with constantly high GH levels and eventually blunts the natural pulse response. However, if you use a GHRP with the CJC 1295 w/DAC you can avoid this. I know lots of guys who have been very successful doing 2mg of CJC 1295 w/DAC per week with a GHRP. High levels of serum GH are very productive in athletics because of the increase in IFG-1. As soon as GH levels returrn to normal the pulsation process continues anyway.
Deleted member 43589
Well-Known Member
Yea, I was part of the board when it open as Dat and I posted on ProMuscle and American Muscle for a long time.Lots of good information there. ProMuscle still has some of the old stuff posted back when Swale (Dr. Crysler) posted. I was truly sorry to find out the truth behind DATs board, but I suspected it for about a year after he started pushing Tom's Peptides so heavily. Then to find out DAT was an attorney.
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