New Member: Worse Off than ever after years of TRT, HCG now not working, debilitating insomnia - Please Help !

[hunterdon goose]

Hello everyone, I'm a 33 year old man from north west NJ. I was diagnosed with low T in 2014 by my primary care physician via blood work and put on 125mg testosterone cypionate a week divided into 2 shots. Fast forward to the summer of 2023 and I had to stop taking it sadly because one side effect that outweighed all the very numerous benefits : Insomnia. Despite good sleep hygiene, good mental health (I also have a sleep doctor and have done sleep studies and use my cpap machine religiously) I can't seem to get more than 6 hours a night of sleep which has driven me to the point of sadly quitting TRT (for now until this can all get sorted out) . While 6 hours a night may seem perfectly adequate for some on this board (and more power to you) I desperately need my normal 8-10 hours otherwise I can not take classes required to finish my degree, exercise, do things I love or even hold down a job properly. No I am not kidding about how debilitating the poor sleep is; I am in serious trouble and desperately need your help.

Since I have decided to give the TRT a break until my sleep returns (it hasn't- hence why I am here and need your help guys) , my urologist in efforts to raise my testosterone has prescribed 20mg of tamoxifen which I have taken for roughly 2 months+ before all the bloodwork below was drawn. Since as you can well see nothing looks good, he has added 1000iu of HCG a day starting about a week ago. I am seeing him again next week for a follow up.



Side Note: I am currently taking 100mg DHEA and 60mg pregnenolone OTC yet the levels are also low as you can see. The urologist has also tried lower doses of HCG (3000,4000iu ect and not much has changed in terms of testicular atrophy)

(And Please also be aware the sleep issue didn't occur all at once suddenly but occured slowly over time where I went from my usual 8-10hrs to just 4-6hrs gradually over a period of years.)



Thank you gentlemen so much in advance for this great resource and community of a forum- and if I'm fortunate to get some ideas that could potentially change my life situation and allow me to unlock my full potential from this crippling insomnia I will be forever grateful !

 

[Systemlord]

Low pregnenolone can cause poor sleep, insomnia. Stopping TRT wasn’t the correct move.

Supplementing pregenolone was the right move.

Stopping TRT until your sleep returns is a fools errand, low testosterone causes, poor sleep, and poor sleep causes low testosterone.

I had horrible, sleep quality, insomnia, when I had low testosterone, restoring my testosterone. Now I sleep like a baby.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Hello everyone, I'm a 33 year old man from north west NJ. I was diagnosed with low T in 2014 by my primary care physician via blood work and put on 125mg testosterone cypionate a week divided into 2 shots. Fast forward to the summer of 2023 and I had to stop taking it sadly because one side effect that outweighed all the very numerous benefits : Insomnia.

Am I understanding correctly that you took 125 mg a week for 7 years and suffered debilitating insomnia the entire time, without ever changing the protocol (like reducing the dose)? Please tell me I am incorrect.

 

[klime]

Hello everyone, I'm a 33 year old man from north west NJ. I was diagnosed with low T in 2014 by my primary care physician via blood work and put on 125mg testosterone cypionate a week divided into 2 shots. Fast forward to the summer of 2023 and I had to stop taking it sadly because one side effect that outweighed all the very numerous benefits : Insomnia. Despite good sleep hygiene, good mental health (I also have a sleep doctor and have done sleep studies and use my cpap machine religiously) I can't seem to get more than 6 hours a night of sleep which has driven me to the point of sadly quitting TRT (for now until this can all get sorted out) . While 6 hours a night may seem perfectly adequate for some on this board (and more power to you) I desperately need my normal 8-10 hours otherwise I can not take classes required to finish my degree, exercise, do things I love or even hold down a job properly. No I am not kidding about how debilitating the poor sleep is; I am in serious trouble and desperately need your help.

Since I have decided to give the TRT a break until my sleep returns (it hasn't- hence why I am here and need your help guys) , my urologist in efforts to raise my testosterone has prescribed 20mg of tamoxifen which I have taken for roughly 2 months+ before all the bloodwork below was drawn. Since as you can well see nothing looks good, he has added 1000iu of HCG a day starting about a week ago. I am seeing him again next week for a follow up.



Side Note: I am currently taking 100mg DHEA and 60mg pregnenolone OTC yet the levels are also low as you can see. The urologist has also tried lower doses of HCG (3000,4000iu ect and not much has changed in terms of testicular atrophy)

Thank you gentlemen so much in advance for this great resource and community of a forum- and if I'm fortunate to get some ideas that could potentially change my life situation and allow me to unlock my full potential from this crippling insomnia I will be forever grateful !
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I had the same issue on injections. Now I use 20%compounded cream. I apply 200 mg first thing in the morning to my scrotum. Now I sleep like a baby and my sex drive, mood everything is so much better.

 

[hunterdon goose]

Am I understanding correctly that you took 125 mg a week for 7 years and suffered debilitating insomnia the entire time, without ever changing the protocol (like reducing the dose)? Please tell me I am incorrect.

FunkOdyssey- My mistake the sleep problems started out mildly with symptoms such as taking a smidge longer to go to sleep but then gradually worsed over time to the point where I went from 9-10 hours a day to just 4-6 hours towards the end. I should have made that more clear and will adjust the post.

 

[hunterdon goose]

Low pregnenolone can cause poor sleep, insomnia. Stopping TRT wasn’t the correct move.

Supplementing pregenolone was the right move.

Stopping TRT until your sleep returns is a fools errand, low testosterone causes, poor sleep, and poor sleep causes low testosterone.

I had horrible, sleep quality, insomnia, when I had low testosterone, restoring my testosterone. Now I sleep like a baby.

Thank you for weighing in Systemlord. While it may have been the wrong move, my logic was to remove excess drugs (maybe as you said testosterone as removing testosterone could have caused more harm than good) thus eliminating other variables and just have the urologist reactivate my endocrine system (if that is even possible)

 

[hunterdon goose]

I had the same issue on injections. Now I use 20%compounded cream. I apply 200 mg first thing in the morning to my scrotum. Now I sleep like a baby and my sex drive, mood everything is so much better.

Maybe I'll try daily dosing - thank you !

 

[HarryCat2]

Supplementing DHEA, even at doses as low as 12.5mg per day absolutely ruins my sleep. I've learned just to accept low DHEA-S on my labs.

 

[Systemlord]

My DHEA is about midrange and tried a tiny amount, throat had the sensation of pins and needles.

 

[hunterdon goose]

Supplementing DHEA, even at doses as low as 12.5mg per day absolutely ruins my sleep. I've learned just to accept low DHEA-S on my labs.

Ironically I feel calmer and am able to sleep another 1-2 hours after waking up and taking 100mg of DHEA in the morning. but as you can tell, mine is very low.

 

[electrify]

Seems like low pregnenolone may have been the issue. There were some theories in the past about TRT without HCG/Preg over time lowering Preg levels.

 

[RPellerin]

Poor sleep quality is one of the indications I have when it is time for a blood donation.

 

[hunterdon goose]

Seems like low pregnenolone may have been the issue. There were some theories in the past about TRT without HCG/Preg over time lowering Preg levels.

yes that is exactly what happened to me. I never took HCG with my trt nor pregnenolone.

 

[hunterdon goose]

Poor sleep quality is one of the indications I have when it is time for a blood donation.

I do the double red donation 4 times a year religiously and I am below 53% hematocrit

 

[LowTea]

Reviving this because this is my exact experience and I have tried 100 protocols to resolve it. Just wondering if the OP ever resolved this. I think the key may be cream, so am trying that now.

 

[Jerajera]

Reviving this because this is my exact experience and I have tried 100 protocols to resolve it. Just wondering if the OP ever resolved this. I think the key may be cream, so am trying that now.

Cream definitely turned out to be the best protocol for me. You have to be a little patient (2-3 weeks) for things to settle down and resist the temptation to change your protocol too often.

I will say however that even on cream I do need some neurosteroid supplementation to feel good. Without Preg and/or DHEA, my brain just doesn't work nearly as well as pre-TRT and I have less energy in general, but cream alone is still not nearly as debilitating as solo injections, which always eventually leave me so lethargic and retarded I can't even function regardless of dosage/protocol.

 

[LowTea]

Cream definitely turned out to be the best protocol for me. You have to be a little patient (2-3 weeks) for things to settle down and resist the temptation to change your protocol too often.

I will say however that even on cream I do need some neurosteroid supplementation to feel good. Without Preg and/or DHEA, my brain just doesn't work nearly as well as pre-TRT and I have less energy in general, but cream alone is still not nearly as debilitating as solo injections, which always eventually leave me so lethargic and retarded I can't even function regardless of dosage/protocol.

I’ve always used HCG and my preg/prog/dhea have always been fine. I checked them in the past when I wasn’t using HCG and they were barely within range on the scale if not just below, but since reintroducing HCG they have come up.

I don’t really care how I feel at this point regarding sex drive and energy, I just need sleep. My life is nearly destroyed at this point from years of failing to sleep with any dosage or frequency of oil. I do sleep 5-6 hours but even that feels like 3-4 most of the time. The only time I sleep and feel rested is when I take a bunch of CNS depressants such as alcohol, but that isn’t sustainable on a daily basis for me.

Only been doing cream for two weeks and so far sleeping worse due to the protocol change. I’m really hoping that in 4-6 weeks I magically start sleeping again, I need it so bad.

I was hoping the OP would come in and say cream solved all of his problems, but we will have to wait and see.

 

[Systemlord]

Only been doing cream for two weeks and so far sleeping worse due to the protocol change.

That's not a good sign. You should already be seeing benefits. Your T levels must be declining.

You should consider oral T, Jatenzo, Kyzatrex.

 

[LowTea]

That's not a good sign. You should already be seeing benefits. Your T levels must be declining.

You should consider oral T, Jatenzo, Kyzatrex.

Every time I have ever changed protos I felt real bad for a few weeks as my body is adjusting to the new half-lives and aromatization.

I’m getting labs next week so will have some data at least. I’m probably still waiting for the lung esters of the oils to wear off while the cream takes over.

 

[Systemlord]

I’m probably still waiting for the lung esters of the oils to wear off while the cream takes over.

The cream is maxed out, you reached steady states in 1 week on the cream. When you first started the cream, your T was higher than it is now because of the doubling or stacking of the cypionate.

When I first started Jatenzo, I had only just stopped the cypionate, I was stacking the two and T levels were higher that first week.