New labs. Still battling e2

[johndoesmith]

That leads me to my next question. How long, in general, does it take for your E to come up to where it intends to go? I'll be off the AI for 15 days before I get labs. Is that long enough for an accurate level check or should I wait longer.

That's a very difficult to answer question. It's entirely individual, just like asking as a child, how tall will I be?

Honestly, at 15 days it should be lower range, assuming you were completely crashed, and maybe a month? It's hard to say.

 

[Leesto]

That leads me to my next question. How long, in general, does it take for your E to come up to where it intends to go? I'll be off the AI for 15 days before I get labs. Is that long enough for an accurate level check or should I wait longer.

I'm sure it is different for each person and probably subject to other influences as well. For me it took 4 full weeks to get back into range.

 

[hfbjr]

Thanks for the insight johndoesmith.

 

[hfbjr]

Any concerns with low glucose? Or its effects?

 

[johndoesmith]

Any concerns with low glucose? Or its effects?

Sorry I missed that one. It's called hypoglycemia, but you're just out of range, so it's not too low.

Mostly the concern is with being dizzy or weak in the mornings, like a diabetic. It's worth looking into if you're having those, if you're not having those symptoms, I'm not 100% that just because it's low end of range it's worth doing anything about.

 

[Singinhawk]

I'm sure it is different for each person and probably subject to other influences as well. For me it took 4 full weeks to get back into range.

I have to get other labs done so I'll get it taken just to see and ask the doc to take it again in a few weeks.
Hes a new doc for me but has been doing this for a long time. I'm hoping I don't get any crappy symptoms as the E is coming up. The big thing with me is fatigue.

 

[hfbjr]

I'm very sluggish in the morning. It's hard to get out of bed. One wierd thing, I have more energy,and feel stronger in the evening vs mornings.

I did a cortisol test, but need the doc to review them

 

[johndoesmith]

I have to get other labs done so I'll get it taken just to see and ask the doc to take it again in a few weeks.
Hes a new doc for me but has been doing this for a long time. I'm hoping I don't get any crappy symptoms as the E is coming up. The big thing with me is fatigue.

You may experience some random things, you may not. Point is to not freak out and panic and take AI or anything crazy. Consistency.

I felt nothing when my E2 rose from 8-29 or something. A little nipple sensitivity that lasted a week but that could also be the testosterone.

I'm very sluggish in the morning. It's hard to get out of bed. One wierd thing, I have more energy,and feel stronger in the evening vs mornings.

I did a cortisol test, but need the doc to review them

Is it first thing in the morning, the sluggishness that is.

Might be from low glucose, try drinking apple juice, and see if it makes a difference. Ask your doctor for more info.

 

[hfbjr]

Thanks for the help. Very informative.

 

[Singinhawk]

You may experience some random things, you may not. Point is to not freak out and panic and take AI or anything crazy. Consistency.

I felt nothing when my E2 rose from 8-29 or something. A little nipple sensitivity that lasted a week but that could also be the testosterone.



Is it first thing in the morning, the sluggishness that is.

Might be from low glucose, try drinking apple juice, and see if it makes a difference. Ask your doctor for more info.

i will start off with a statement then a question.

As stated before my usual dose on pellets is 1200 mgs ( did 1400 twice ) always TT and FT is above range up until about 16 or 17 weeks where is starts to drop off. I usually get a new set around that time.

My CBC red counts always above range.
E2 was very high around 140 before AI.

The next set due in February and planning on doing 1000 mgs. That should put me back into the physiological range.

It should also bring my red counts down, decrease conversion of T to E.

Do you think that is a correct and wise move. Doing this for health!!!

This is a vague question.

I know everyone is different but have you guys noticed any trend in how much of a dose of AI seems to be the best. I know that's a very open question. Everyone is different.

I read Life Extension foundation recommends 1/2 mg twice a week. I know 1/2 every other day is too much for me.

Five days off AI started getting nighttime wood better daytime ER libido seemed better.
Sleep terrible. No nipple sensitivity.
Trying not to panic as you suggested.

Last night no wood.

When do do you know if you should start AI low does ?

Thanks you !

 

[johndoesmith]

i will start off with a statement then a question.

As stated before my usual dose on pellets is 1200 mgs ( did 1400 twice ) always TT and FT is above range up until about 16 or 17 weeks where is starts to drop off. I usually get a new set around that time.

It'd be helpful to know exactly what they were, and how "above" range you mean. It's somewhat difficult to speculate based upon a vague description such as "above range".

Not trying to be rude or anything, and you may genuinely not have the results, so I understand. If you do have them it'd be to your advantage to upload them for more detailed input.

BTW, this should probably be a new thread.

My CBC red counts always above range.
E2 was very high around 140 before AI.

Same as what I said before haha.

Was the E2 a sensitive test?

The next set due in February and planning on doing 1000 mgs. That should put me back into the physiological range.

Have you considered the twice weekly self injection method? It is significantly easier to titrate and dial in when you have control of your dose as opposed to pellets which you're essentially married to.

Might also be cheaper.

It should also bring my red counts down, decrease conversion of T to E.

Well, regarding red counts, it's extremely important to define HOW much above range you are. It can be dangerous depending on what exactly you mean.

Lowering testosterone dose will only prevent or slow down further increases, not bring them down. AFAIK the only way to do that is by phlebotomy.

Lower test dose will absolutely lower E2 production. Here's a picture for you:

We can quantify the rate of reaction and relate to the concentration of a substrate through using the Michaelis-Menten kinetics model. As you can see, it is not a linear relationship, but a curve that demonstrates a plateauing of reaction rate at a specific dose of testosterone. The thing with enzymes, are the products inhibit reactions. Much like how negative feedback mechanisms operate with gonadotropic hormones, if we have too high of a product, the rate of reaction decreases.

There is, disregarding the kinetics of aromatase, also the fact that lower testosterone simply means less E2.

Do you think that is a correct and wise move. Doing this for health!!!

Lowering above range testosterone is a good move for health!

This is a vague question.

I know everyone is different but have you guys noticed any trend in how much of a dose of AI seems to be the best. I know that's a very open question. Everyone is different.

I read Life Extension foundation recommends 1/2 mg twice a week. I know 1/2 every other day is too much for me.

There is no way to answer that haha, I see .25mg 2x weekly recommended a lot on this forum.

Five days off AI started getting nighttime wood better daytime ER libido seemed better.
Sleep terrible. No nipple sensitivity.
Trying not to panic as you suggested.
Last night no wood.

I think we should take this conversation either to your own thread, or PMs, I made this post here because it is relevant information for all, not just you directly.

I may have confused you with hfjbr in some of the responses to you randomly. I am terrible at looking at usernames. So if some of my responses don't make sense, you know why haha.

When do do you know if you should start AI low does ?

When you have physical/mental symptoms and a high sensitive(if available for you where you are) E2 test, and lowering testosterone dose isn't really a possibility, and you've tried more frequent injections, or T/E2 ratio is so low, none of this is worth trying. This is all IMO and it will be contingent upon the exact circumstances on an individual basis.

Sorry to make it so complex, but this is after all a very complex topic. Sometimes there aren't answers and you may have to make your own.

 

[hfbjr]

How do you figure your own test to estrogen ration?

 

[johndoesmith]

How do you figure your own test to estrogen ration?

Sticking to a consistent protocol and ordering proper labs. All of the information I posted is nice to know, but it's fairly irrelevant. What matters is do you feel good and are you at reasonable testosterone and E2 levels?