new guy--been on TRT for 1 year (blood test results)

[pfuked]

Hi all - I am new here. Just wanted to share my blood test results after being on TRT for about 1 year now. My protocol is 0.27 ml test cyp (54 mg) subQ with 0.25 ml HCG (250 iu) every 3 days. I also take arimidex @ 0.5 mg 3x a week spaced out. I originally used arimidex at 2x per week but my nipples were constantly itchy so it got bumped up to 3x per week. I feel great on this protocol, have built muscle mass, and leaned out a bit since being on it. My sex drive is crazy good too---like when I was in my teens. Anyways, here are my results:

Insulin-Like Growth Factor I 191 ng/mL (67 - 205)
Testosterone, Serum 1195 ng/dL (348 - 1197)
Free Testosterone(Direct) 36.4 High pg/mL (6.8 - 21.5)
Sex Horm Binding Glob, Serum 18.0 nmol/L (16.5 - 55.9)
Estradiol 5.2 Low pg/mL (7.6 - 42.6) Roche ECLIA methodology

Any comments or suggestions? Looks like I am a low SHBG guy...

 

[CoastWatcher]

Hi all - I am new here. Just wanted to share my blood test results after being on TRT for about 1 year now. My protocol is 0.27 ml test cyp (54 mg) subQ with 0.25 ml HCG (250 iu) every 3 days. I also take arimidex @ 0.5 mg 3x a week spaced out. I originally used arimidex at 2x per week but my nipples were constantly itchy so it got bumped up to 3x per week. I feel great on this protocol, have built muscle mass, and leaned out a bit since being on it. My sex drive is crazy good too---like when I was in my teens. Anyways, here are my results:

Insulin-Like Growth Factor I 191 ng/mL (67 - 205)
Testosterone, Serum 1195 ng/dL (348 - 1197)
Free Testosterone(Direct) 36.4 High pg/mL (6.8 - 21.5)
Sex Horm Binding Glob, Serum 18.0 nmol/L (16.5 - 55.9)
Estradiol 5.2 Low pg/mL (7.6 - 42.6) Roche ECLIA methodology

Any comments or suggestions? Looks like I am a low SHBG guy...

Welcome to Excelmale. We hope you'll become an active member.

Why in the world are you using an AI, and why are you measuring your estradiol with the wrong test? Or, I should ask, why is your doctor prescribing an AI when it is unnecessary, and does he not realize men should always test E2 with the sensitive (LC, MS, MS) lab test? He ordered a test that will over-report your estradiol level...that means you are likely even lower than the looney value you posted.

Itchy nipples mean, in most cases, that you have itchy nipples due to serum levels adjusting to the presence of androgens. An itchy nipple is never a reason to institute Anastrozole. Anastrozole should only be prescribed when symptoms and blood levels call for it. Your symptoms are likely independent of your E2 level, and you have suppressed your level of estradiol, which can lead to all sort of problems in and of itself.

I'm glad you seem to be feeling as well as you do, but I urge you to spend some time considering the points I raised. You aren't far from having things well balanced...with one glaring exception.

 

[pfuked]

Welcome to Excelmale. We hope you'll become an active member.

Why in the world are you using an AI, and why are you measuring your estradiol with the wrong test? Or, I should ask, why is your doctor prescribing an AI when it is unnecessary, and does he not realize men should always test E2 with the sensitive (LC, MS, MS) lab test? He ordered a test that will over-report your estradiol level...that means you are likely even lower than the looney value you posted.

Itch nipples mean, in most cases, that you have itchy nipples due to serum levels adjusting to the presence of androgens. An itchy nipple is never a reason to institute Anastrozole. Anastrozole should only be prescribed when symptoms and blood levels call for it. Your symptoms are likely independent of your E2 level, and you have suppressed your level of estradiol, which can lead to all sort of problems in and of itself.

I'm glad you seem to be feeling as well as you do, but I urge you to spend some time considering the points I raised. You aren't far from having things well balanced...with one glaring exception.

I had gyno when I was a teen and know what my nipples felt like when I first developed it. Same feeling. In addition, I was holding a lot of water (bloat) I attribute to having non-optimal estrogen levels. The doctor agreed and bumped me up a notch on the AI. My erection quality and libido was another factor in the decision to increase the AI dosage (no sex drive, hard to get an erection). Perhaps I am a bit sensitive to estrogen levels, I don't know. All I know is I have been on this protocol now for 6+ months and feel and look great...and libido is through the roof. Thanks for the advice though. I had a talk with my doc after the tests and he recommended lowering the dose of AI back to 2x per week but I am worried I will go back to having the same high estrogen symptoms I had before...

 

[CoastWatcher]

I had gyno when I was a teen and know what my nipples felt like when I first developed it. Same feeling. In addition, I was holding a lot of water (bloat) I attribute to having non-optimal estrogen levels. The doctor agreed and bumped me up a notch on the AI. My erection quality and libido was another factor in the decision to increase the AI dosage (no sex drive, hard to get an erection). Perhaps I am a bit sensitive to estrogen levels, I don't know. All I know is I have been on this protocol now for 6+ months and feel and look great...and libido is through the roof. Thanks for the advice though. I had a talk with my doc after the tests and he recommended lowering the dose of AI back to 2x per week but I am worried I will go back to having the same high estrogen symptoms I had before...

At the very least, please test with the proper estradiol test, the sensitive test that will give you and your doctor an accurate level of estradiol to work with. I'm very glad you report such a strong response to TRT, but low, or non-existent, levels of estradiol can lead to other serious health challenges.

How was your gynecomastia treated when it presented earlier?

 

[pfuked]

The doc who saw me when I first developed gyno said it would go away, said it was common and not to worry about it (grrr).. She did blood tests that reveled low total serum test (220ng/dl), but low normal free test. she said I was normal... Estrogen was not checked. Anyway, I lived with it until my 30 and eventually I had the gyno surgically removed.

I'll get the more sensitive estrogen test done and report back. Can you point me in the right direction regarding the hazards of low estrogen?

 

[CoastWatcher]

The doc who saw me when I first developed gyno said it would go away, said it was common and not to worry about it (grrr).. She did blood tests that reveled low total serum test (220ng/dl), but low normal free test. she said I was normal... Estrogen was not checked. Anyway, I lived with it until my 30 and eventually I had the gyno surgically removed.

I'll get the more sensitive estrogen test done and report back. Can you point me in the right direction regarding the hazards of low estrogen?

You should use the search function here on the Forum and also spend time reading the sticky posts in the appropriate folders. There is a wealth of information on the topic. To start, study this thread and pay particular attention to Nelson's video. Estradiol is not a waste product to be eliminated. You have a set of challenges, very true, so it's even more important to understand what you're dealing with.

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?2309-Role-of-Estradiol-in-Men-and-Its-Management

 

[johndoesmith]

The doc who saw me when I first developed gyno said it would go away, said it was common and not to worry about it (grrr).. She did blood tests that reveled low total serum test (220ng/dl), but low normal free test. she said I was normal... Estrogen was not checked. Anyway, I lived with it until my 30 and eventually I had the gyno surgically removed.

I'll get the more sensitive estrogen test done and report back. Can you point me in the right direction regarding the hazards of low estrogen?

When did you have the tests taken relative to injection?

You have zero E2 in your body. How the hell you have a libido, an erection, or can even use the words "Feel great" is beyond me. I had more E2 than that, and I was purely miserable.

Low E2 can cause so many negative health consequences, from increased mortality, osteoporosis, suicide(I'm being facetious here) and possibly issues with joints. There's much more but you can search for that.

You also need more tests ran that just hormones, like a CBC. Do you have those? If you do, why did you not post them?

 

[Speed]

Also, you removed glands surgically You can't get gyno now, even on 10g of T weekly

 

[madman]

Also, you removed glands surgically You can't get gyno now, even on 10g of T weekly

Not necessarily hoping the surgeon completely removed the head/body/tail damn never realized gyno tissue was so vicious looking..............warning graphic pics!https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5010345/

 

[CoastWatcher]

Also, you removed glands surgically You can't get gyno now, even on 10g of T weekly

We heard from a fellow a few years ago who did, indeed, go through the whole thing a second time due to incomplete excision. You can imagine how he felt...

 

[Speed]

Both of mine are removed completely...

 

[CoastWatcher]

Both of mine are removed completely...

May I ask how long ago you dealt with it?

 

[Speed]

May I ask how long ago you dealt with it?

Removed it in 2012. when I was 22. Small puberty gyno.

 

[pfuked]

When did you have the tests taken relative to injection?

You have zero E2 in your body. How the hell you have a libido, an erection, or can even use the words "Feel great" is beyond me. I had more E2 than that, and I was purely miserable.

Low E2 can cause so many negative health consequences, from increased mortality, osteoporosis, suicide(I'm being facetious here) and possibly issues with joints. There's much more but you can search for that.

You also need more tests ran that just hormones, like a CBC. Do you have those? If you do, why did you not post them?

I have night time erections, morning erections, and my sex drive is insane...so I suspect it is a little more complicated than just estrogen levels driving libido. When I was on 2x AI a week I didn't have any sex drive, and I could barely get it up.

I have additional test results but figured I would just share what I did. Everything else is in the normal range except free test, and estrogen.

Oh, and I had the test done the same morning I injected subq. I doubt it significantly bumped up test levels since subq test is slowly released into the bloodstream, no?

 

[johndoesmith]

I have night time erections, morning erections, and my sex drive is insane...so I suspect it is a little more complicated than just estrogen levels driving libido. When I was on 2x AI a week I didn't have any sex drive, and I could barely get it up.

I have additional test results but figured I would just share what I did. Everything else is in the normal range except free test, and estrogen.

Oh, and I had the test done the same morning I injected subq. I doubt it significantly bumped up test levels since subq test is slowly released into the bloodstream, no?

Yeah, how that is, I have no idea. It's been proven time and time again that men need E2 to have libido, in fact, I'm actually reading a study right now suggesting E2 may be more important than testosterone in men with low normal testosterone levels.

There are negative health consequences of low E2. Bone health being a big one. Joints, and possibly brain health being important as well.

"fat accumulation is primarily a consequence of estrogen deficiency; and sexual function is regulated by both androgens and estrogens." http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1206168#t=article

I would not advocate for crashed E2 levels. I actually lived that way for a while, naturally, and man it was absolutely awful.

 

[pfuked]

Not sure if this is true but I think the combination of having low shbg and high total test allows me to have more free e2 in circulation...maybe this is part of why my libido is super strong. As you know shbg can bind only 1 molecule of hormone--either testosterone, e2, dht, or some other type of estrogen/androgen. DHT and testosterone are pretty high affinity to shbg, and because of this, my shbg is probably predominantly bound to testosterone, if not fully saturated with it because of my high total test levels. Because all my shbg is bound up and saturated with test, it cant bind to much, if any, e2, so most likely all my e2 is all free/unbound...and therefore able to bind to its receptor quite easily...

 

[johndoesmith]

As you know shbg can bind only 1 molecule of hormone--either testosterone, e2, dht, or some other type of estrogen/androgen

Oh yeah? Where did you learn this? I'd love to see some evidence of this! sincerely.

have more free e2 in circulation

That makes sense, but you have almost ZERO E2 in your body because you're nuking it into oblivion.

Under 15 pg/ml is associated with osteoporosis, osteopenia.

Listen, it's your body, you're gonna do what you want to.

 

[pfuked]

Oh yeah? Where did you learn this? I'd love to see some evidence of this! sincerely.

I read it in a paper..im a research scientist

That makes sense, but you have almost ZERO E2 in your body because you're nuking it into oblivion.

its just a hypothesis I have... There should be a test for free e2 that would help to clear things up

Under 15 pg/ml is associated with osteoporosis, osteopenia.

maybe with normal shbg levels..

Listen, it's your body, you're gonna do what you want to.

anyways I'm looking into it. All I know is I get massive e2 symptoms with 2x ai per week

 

[johndoesmith]

I read it in a paper..im a research scientist

Great source! I was genuinely asking man. You're a research scientist, so you understand the importance of sources, seeing as you have none, I think it's BS.

Your idea of having free E2 when you have near undetectable levels in your body is seriously laughable. Free is a fraction of total, seeing as your total is extremely low, what would a fraction of that BE?

 

[pfuked]

Great source! I was genuinely asking man. You're a research scientist, so you understand the importance of sources, seeing as you have none, I think it's BS.


Your idea of having free E2 when you have near undetectable levels in your body is seriously laughable. Free is a fraction of total, seeing as your total is extremely low, what would a fraction of that BE?

I dont have access to the journal article at home, only at work so I'll find it tomorrow

haha