3 months blood advise

[Mill3r]

Hi all,


I’m sending off my 3-month blood test results to my clinic here in the UK and wanted to get some thoughts. For the first two months, I was using U-40 needles instead of U-100, which caused me to get my dose wrong. The blood results I’m sharing now are from 6 weeks after correcting my dose to 84 mg of testosterone cypionate split into daily injections, alongside HCG at 250 IU 3 times a week. I inject subcutaneously (subq) daily.


Before starting TRT, my testosterone was consistently around 9 nmol/L or below, and my estradiol (E2) was either below range or under 92 pmol/L. Now, even on a small dose of testosterone, my E2 seems to remain very high. When my testosterone reached 52 nmol/L, my E2 was over 700 pmol/L. (this was when i used the wrong needle)


I’m wondering if this means subq isn’t working well for me, or if I need assistance managing my E2 (e.g., an aromatase inhibitor)? My RBC levels are slightly elevated, and while I don’t plan to donate blood yet, could the high E2 also be contributing to the rise in RBC? My hematocrit (HCT) before TRT was 0.44, so it has increased significantly since starting therapy.


I live a healthy lifestyle—I don’t smoke or drink, I weight train regularly, walk often, and do some cardio on my bike each week. That said, I know I need to lose a couple of stone, which I’m actively working on. (I like my food, also low testosterone defiantly didn't help weight management)


I’m assuming my clinic may suggest dropping my dose to 70 mg per week, but I’m concerned this might not be enough to bring my E2 down. i felt great on higher doses but i was well above range, by libido has now dropped off abit and my feel much more tired.


Would appreciate any insights!

thanks

 

[Systemlord]

I seriously doubt decreasing your Test dose to 70 per week while keeping the hCG dose unchanged is going to move the needle far enough. It's best to just lower your dosage across the board.

What does Dr. Stevens say out all of this?

libido has now dropped off abit and my feel much more tired.

This is common to men who are blasting and cruising and those who are overdosed.

 

[Mill3r]

AI's can't effect E2 produced inside the testes for the use of hCG, some don't be surprised if E2 remains largely unchanged.

It's best to just lower your dosage across the board. I seriously doubt decreasing your Test dose to 70 per week while keeping the hCG dose unchanged is going to move the needle very far.

What does Dr. Stevens say out all of this?

Hi there,


I’m not with Dr. Stevens; I’m with a clinic whose name starts with "L."


I was prescribed 500 IU of HCG three times a week to preserve fertility, but I chose to start with a lower dose and gradually increase it. When I decide to try for another baby (my partner just had our baby, which I conceived pre-TRT), I plan to adjust accordingly. Interestingly, I was diagnosed with secondary hypogonadism before starting TRT, so the pregnancy was a surprise since both my LH and FSH were low at the time.


I’m hesitant to drop the HCG completely, as it’s part of my fertility plan and i like the benefits it brings. I did inquire earlier if I could inject HCG daily alongside my testosterone, as suggested by TMHC, but Clinic L mentioned they don’t recognize that protocol. They advised that for fertility preservation, I should stick with the recommended three-times-a-week dosing.

 

[WhiteMale]

You really haven't said a word about what symptoms, how you FEEL, is wrong here. You'v e only talked to numbers on a lab report which is usually the worst way to really approach this. Chasing numbers to an extent is very flawed.

 

[Mill3r]

Sorry. I’ll expand.

I felt much better on the higher dose. However I did get a lot of water retention and sensitivity on my nipples but it was unsafe to stay at they level.

Now 6 weeks on this dose. I feel much more tiered, less morning erections and I definitely feeling more snappy and miserable. I have started getting dry patches in my eye lids which I had when going through puberty. I feel very much like pre-TRT for example my get up and go is starting to go again and I can feel anxiety creeping back in.

 

[madman]

Hi all,


I’m sending off my 3-month blood test results to my clinic here in the UK and wanted to get some thoughts. For the first two months, I was using U-40 needles instead of U-100, which caused me to get my dose wrong. The blood results I’m sharing now are from 6 weeks after correcting my dose to 84 mg of testosterone cypionate split into daily injections, alongside HCG at 250 IU 3 times a week. I inject subcutaneously (subq) daily.


Before starting TRT, my testosterone was consistently around 9 nmol/L or below, and my estradiol (E2) was either below range or under 92 pmol/L. Now, even on a small dose of testosterone, my E2 seems to remain very high. When my testosterone reached 52 nmol/L, my E2 was over 700 pmol/L. (this was when i used the wrong needle)


I’m wondering if this means subq isn’t working well for me, or if I need assistance managing my E2 (e.g., an aromatase inhibitor)? My RBC levels are slightly elevated, and while I don’t plan to donate blood yet, could the high E2 also be contributing to the rise in RBC? My hematocrit (HCT) before TRT was 0.44, so it has increased significantly since starting therapy.


I live a healthy lifestyle—I don’t smoke or drink, I weight train regularly, walk often, and do some cardio on my bike each week. That said, I know I need to lose a couple of stone, which I’m actively working on. (I like my food, also low testosterone defiantly didn't help weight management)


I’m assuming my clinic may suggest dropping my dose to 70 mg per week, but I’m concerned this might not be enough to bring my E2 down. i felt great on higher doses but i was well above range, by libido has now dropped off abit and my feel much more tired.


Would appreciate any insights!

thanks

Keep in mind the only way to know where your FT truly sits is to have it tested using the most accurate methods/assays (ED/UF) especially in cases of altered SHBG.

If you do not have access to such then you would need to use/rely upon the go to calculated linear law-of-mass action cFTV which will give a good approx. but keep in mind it tends to slightly underestimate FT.

As I have stated numerous times on the forum you always have the option of using/relying upon calculated FT which would be the linear law-of-mass action cFTV as it has already been validated twice (1st time was done using TT/SHBG assays no longer available) and was then eventually re-validated using current state-of-the-art ED method (higher order reference method) let alone more recently against CDCs standardized Equilibrium Dialysis assay.

Yes it tends to overestimate slightly but it is nothing to fret over!


*Calculated free T using high-quality T and SHBG assays has been considered the most useful for clinical purposes [99]. All algorithms suffer from some inaccuracies, including the variable quality of SHBG IAs [100], not replicating the non-linear nature of T-SHBG binding, different and inaccurate association constants for SHBG and albumin binding [101], and variable agreement with equilibrium dialysis results [99,100]. However, until further developments in the field materialize, the linear model algorithms [in particular, the most used Vermeulen equation [102]] appear to give, despite a small systematic positive bias, acceptable data for the clinical management and research[37,103].




Your estradiol, RBCs, hemoglobin and hematocrit are high because your FT is high!

Carrying a lot of adipose will make you prone to aromatizing more T!

Although you are only injecting 12 mg TC daily (84 mg/week) + 250 IU hCG 3X weekly you are still hitting a high-end TT 891.2 ng/dL and with an SHBG 26.7 nmol/L your cFTV is 23.5 ng/dL is high

Free & Bioavailable Testosterone calculator

2month bloods very high

Hi all. Has anyway one had a simailar experience? I started TRT 2 months ago with a clinic in the UK. I started in test cyp 84mg per week injected daily. I am also on HCG 250iu 3 times a week. After 1 month my level were elevated so was reduced down to 70mg per week. My results are all still...

www.excelmale.com

That TT 1500 ng/dL or better yet absurd FT you were unintentionally hitting on your previous protocol due to using the wrong syringe/dosing was complete overkill!

Definitely do not want to end up back there!

 

[madman]

Hi all,


I’m sending off my 3-month blood test results to my clinic here in the UK and wanted to get some thoughts. For the first two months, I was using U-40 needles instead of U-100, which caused me to get my dose wrong. The blood results I’m sharing now are from 6 weeks after correcting my dose to 84 mg of testosterone cypionate split into daily injections, alongside HCG at 250 IU 3 times a week. I inject subcutaneously (subq) daily.


Before starting TRT, my testosterone was consistently around 9 nmol/L or below, and my estradiol (E2) was either below range or under 92 pmol/L. Now, even on a small dose of testosterone, my E2 seems to remain very high. When my testosterone reached 52 nmol/L, my E2 was over 700 pmol/L. (this was when i used the wrong needle)


I’m wondering if this means subq isn’t working well for me, or if I need assistance managing my E2 (e.g., an aromatase inhibitor)? My RBC levels are slightly elevated, and while I don’t plan to donate blood yet, could the high E2 also be contributing to the rise in RBC? My hematocrit (HCT) before TRT was 0.44, so it has increased significantly since starting therapy.


I live a healthy lifestyle—I don’t smoke or drink, I weight train regularly, walk often, and do some cardio on my bike each week. That said, I know I need to lose a couple of stone, which I’m actively working on. (I like my food, also low testosterone defiantly didn't help weight management)


I’m assuming my clinic may suggest dropping my dose to 70 mg per week, but I’m concerned this might not be enough to bring my E2 down. i felt great on higher doses but i was well above range, by libido has now dropped off abit and my feel much more tired.


Would appreciate any insights!

thanks

Before starting TRT, my testosterone was consistently around 9 nmol/L or below, and my estradiol (E2) was either below range or under 92 pmol/L. Now, even on a small dose of testosterone, my E2 seems to remain very high.

I’m wondering if this means subq isn’t working well for me, or if I need assistance managing my E2 (e.g., an aromatase inhibitor)? My RBC levels are slightly elevated, and while I don’t plan to donate blood yet, could the high E2 also be contributing to the rise in RBC? My hematocrit (HCT) before TRT was 0.44, so it has increased significantly since starting therapy.


Again your estradiol, RBCs, hemoglobin and hematocrit are high because your FT is high!

If anything I would try dropping the hCG temporarily before f**king with your dose of T let alone an AI!

Even then you could always try switching over to IM.

Some men do not fare well injecting strictly sub-q!

 

[Mill3r]

Thank you for your very comprehensive response this is very much appreciated and it makes perfect sense what your saying. I certainly wouldn’t get a indepth response from my clinic like this so thank.

I regards to the HCG. I want to ensure my tests stay online as I plan to have more children in the next year. Is lowering the dose or trying daily an option to keep them online ? Iv briefly read a study suggesting low dose doesn’t Do much for fertility.

I’m now starting to do shallow IM in my delts. In on day 4 IM and it seems very good. I used an insulin 1/2 this morning and seems to have worked and got into shallow IM. I was using 5/8 27g but I don’t like the mass wastage doing it daily so I will stick with the insulin pins in delts.

If was to drop the HCG. How would I reintroduce it if on the next blood test things are looking better?

With all that being said does my results show I maybe a high responder?

 

[chriskchris]

Your bloodwork is very similar to mine absent the hematocrit issue, perhaps because I regularly donate blood numerous times per year after an initial scare many years ago which has never re-surfaced since beginning donations.

On around 100 mg cypionate a week and 1500 miu/week of HCG, my estradiol was also over 300 with very high free T (out of range) as my SHBG is also low, lower then yours.

Very difficult situation to be in, as sometimes I feel great and sometimes I could swallow a pack of Viagra and probably nothing will happen as I have no feeling there.

From my experience, this is likely all due to estradiol getting elevated as if I take a break from HCG for a week and re-try, the sensation tends to come back. HCG definitely improves sex drive but the elevated estradiol when it occurs greatly diminishes it too.

Issue for me always has been is that standalone testosterone injections has never made me feel good. It's always been the HCG where I felt the benefits of therapy.

On testosterone alone, my estradiol levels have always been in range, but I have never felt good. At times on HCG, they could be extremely high but I would still feel good.

Tapering HCG to 2x per week (500 miu/L) instead of 3x seems to have made a modest improvement for me but I'm still leaning towards trying an AI in very low dose.