Nandrolone Experiences

[Gman86]

This was in a response to that DHT derivatives could be a solution for DECA-Dick as it seems like DHN is binding to the AR and produces vasoconstriction. To counter that and or knock the DHN off the AR or restrict its binding by having higher levels of DHT which saturate the AR so DHN can not bind and produce DECA-dick. The effects of DHT on the brain and mind are more masculising and stronger then the weaker androgenic effects of DHN. But true all is anecdotal and not science so its all ¨bro-science¨.

I kind of get what you’re saying, but DHT has a higher affinity to the AR, and whatever DHT is in your system, is going to take precedence at the AR level.

I’m still not understanding why you think DHN produces vasoconstriction in the blood vessels of the penis

 

[Rock H. Johnson]

I kind of get what you’re saying, but DHT has a higher affinity to the AR, and whatever DHT is in your system, is going to take precedence at the AR level.

I’m still not understanding why you think DHN produces vasoconstriction in the blood vessels of the penis

LOL you are repeating what I was stating from the study, but I was stating it as in DECA-dick situations or where a body is a bad 5AR converter the DHT can be overwhelmed by DHN and knock the DHT off the AR(comes from one of your posts), so in these cases adding a DHT derivative as I was proposing like Proviron or Masteron or even like another member added, a splash of T-cream on the nutsack. This can prevent that by having higher levels of exogenous DHT in the body as I have because I use Masteron to control E2 and saturate SHBG to have more free T.

That DHN probably creates vasoconstiction is ¨Bro-science¨ which I have seen on multiple forums based on the Rabbit-study. Like I said that part is mostly anecdotal.

 

[Rock H. Johnson]

Funny was that straight after I proposed that solution @DS3

I have Proviron on hand and have used it with my test and nandrolone protocol to see if it made a difference. The only thing it seems to do is drive down my estrogen and give me achy joints when I use it with the T & N combo. Libido actually decreases as does my hairline and skin quality.

He immediately knocked it down with his experience with Proviron giving him a new set of trouble by driving down his estrogen...

 

[DS3]

He may not be a doctor, but he’s obsessed with reading studies about nandrolone. If there’s a study about nandrolone, chances are he’s read it. I think you’re assuming that the things he says about nandrolone are his opinion. Nandrolone sensitizing e2 and prolactin receptors is from a study. Not sure if it’s based off of the result of one study, or more, on the subject. I’ve been talking to a few guys that have been using deca as their base for a few years now, with great success. I remember one of them posting the link to the study that talked about this. I’ll see if I can go back and find it. But as far as I know, and from what many of his members say, Taeian is a study reading machine. I’m pretty sure most of the information he talks about with nandrolone is based off of the scientific evidence. So I’m not really sure why the evidence would be considered pseudoscience just because it comes out of his mouth. I understand that most people feel more comfortable hearing the information come out of a doctors mouth, and trust what they’re saying is correct if they have a PHD next to their name, but what you have to understand is that Taeian and physicians are reading the same exact studies. There’s not special studies that are available to doctors, that normal people don’t have access to, in regards to nandrolone.

The other thing is that if he didn’t have so many followers doing well on nandrolone, I wouldn’t put so much weight into what he’s saying. But going back and forth with a few members that have been on nandrolone as their base for a few years, has been extremely eye opening. I don’t put much weight into what the members that cycle high doses of nandrolone say, that are part of his fb group. Which is honestly the majority, I’m pretty sure. I more value the anecdotal evidence from all the men on there using nandrolone as their base, with a little bit of HCG and/ or test, or even low dose estradiol, as this is a much healthier way to implement nandrolone, and is the type of protocol(s) that really take advantage of its particular pharmacokinetics, imo.

"I think you’re assuming that the things he says about nandrolone are his opinion."

@Gman86 Hardly. I believe he has likely read a plethora of studies regarding nandrolone. However, without the ability to conduct a series of studies to test hypotheses such as the ones that Taeian has come up with after correlating data from various studies, touting those hypotheses as fact without testing them is the epitome of pseudoscience.

It is all good and fine to read studies and report on them and posit hypotheses, but without the ability to test hypotheses, it really stops there.

"I understand that most people feel more comfortable hearing the information come out of a doctors mouth, and trust what they’re saying is correct if they have a PHD next to their name, but what you have to understand is that Taeian and physicians are reading the same exact studies."

Agree completely. However, journal access is limited as a layperson. The problem is that without post-graduate training to fully understand the implications of scientific studies, especially training in pharmacology or a related field in medicine, relying on a layperson's (e.g. Taeian) ability to decipher the true implications of studies regarding nandrolone is unreliable at best.

 

[DS3]

Funny was that straight after I proposed that solution @DS3

He immediately knocked it down with his experience with Proviron giving him a new set of trouble by driving down his estrogen...

That is just my experience. There are guys who run Test, nandrolone, and Proviron and feel good. My physician at Baylor College of Medicine treats a guy who stays on high test, high deca, and 100 mg Proviron and feels great (so he reports).

I actually feel good taking Proviron while using Testosterone and HCG as it seems to keep the aromatization in my testicles down from the HCG. However, with nandrolone, it (Proviron) just seems to drive down my estrogen too (e.g. dry skin, decreased libido, thinner hair, mental chnages similar to taking too much A-dex, achy joints, etc.).

My estrogen, despite what @Gman86 is proposing from Taeian that nandrolone sensitizes E2 receptors and thus ends up causing more estrogen issues (despite no increase in serum estradiol), is always lower when adding nandrolone to trt, quantitatively and subjectively (e.g. much more prone to low E2 side effects when using the same dosage of adex or Proviron, skin gets drier, nipple tissue gets smaller, etc.).

 

[Rock H. Johnson]

I kind of get what you’re saying, but DHT has a higher affinity to the AR, and whatever DHT is in your system, is going to take precedence at the AR level.

I’m still not understanding why you think DHN produces vasoconstriction in the blood vessels of the penis

The attached study
implies not a vasoconstriction but the loss of ability to regulate vasoconstriction through nitric oxide bioavailability and impairs endothelium-dependent vasodilation , which one can assume could create a problem for penis tissue to swell up.

 

[Rock H. Johnson]

"I think you’re assuming that the things he says about nandrolone are his opinion."

@Gman86 Hardly. I believe he has likely read a plethora of studies regarding nandrolone. However, without the ability to conduct a series of studies to test hypotheses such as the ones that Taeian has come up with after correlating data from various studies, touting those hypotheses as fact without testing them is the epitome of pseudoscience.

It is all good and fine to read studies and report on them and posit hypotheses, but without the ability to test hypotheses, it really stops there.

"I understand that most people feel more comfortable hearing the information come out of a doctors mouth, and trust what they’re saying is correct if they have a PHD next to their name, but what you have to understand is that Taeian and physicians are reading the same exact studies."

Agree completely. However, journal access is limited as a layperson. The problem is that without post-graduate training to fully understand the implications of scientific studies, especially training in pharmacology or a related field in medicine, relying on a layperson's (e.g. Taeian) ability to decipher the true implications of studies regarding nandrolone is unreliable at best.

And there is something called ¨Confirmation bias¨

 

[DS3]

And there is something called ¨Confirmation bias¨

Too true. And I would say we are all guilty of that, scientist or otherwise.

 

[Rock H. Johnson]

Too true. And I would say we are all guilty of that, scientist or otherwise.

Sure, problem is we expect/assume that science is more objective because of the scientific method but nowadays it is mostly serving the agenda who pays for the research and scientists funding.

 

[Cataceous]

... this forum, one of the few forums that are supposed to present and discuss scientific evidence (not from bro sources, just go to peaktestosterone or somewhere else for that)...

Hey, don't badmouth PeakTestosterone.com. It's largely science-based, and is essentially a sister site of EM.

 

[DS3]

Sure, problem is we expect/assume that science is more objective because of the scientific method but nowadays it is mostly serving the agenda who pays for the research and scientists funding.

Depends on who is funding the study as well as how the implications of the would impact vested interests.

 

[DS3]

Hey, don't badmouth PeakTestosterone.com. It's largely science-based, and is essentially a sister site of EM.

No problem. [Insert appropriate steroid site back into the conversation instead of peaktestosterone).

 

[Gman86]

#1 Reason I HATE DECA CYCLES & Why It Belongs In The Golden Era (nandrolone and depression experiences)

(loss of libido and interest with nandrolone)

(Marc Lobliner- Deca w/ TRT and no issues)

(Dave Crosland, the same guy you just posted about @Gman86, discussing nandrolone regarding anxiety and depression- THIS IS A MUST WATCH) STUDIES: TIME= 0:00-6:34 REAL-LIFE EVIDENCE: TIME= 6:34, Dave Crosland's personal experience with losing cognitive ability while using nandrolone TIME= 9:10)

Have only had time to watch the 1st video so far. This is literally a prime example of what I’m talking about though. This guy could not have used nandrolone more incorrectly if he tried.

So first off, he thinks that the sexual dysfunction he experienced was due to deca increasing his prolactin levels. This is 100% false. Guys using nandrolone solo have extremely low levels of prolactin. Nandrolone produces extremely low levels of both E2 and prolactin, verified over and over again via blood work. His sexual dysfunction could of still been due to prolactin, but it’s because the test he was running was producing a lot of prolactin, and the nandrolone was making that prolactin more potent at the receptor. Again, that’s if prolactin was the cause of the sexual dysfunction.

Second, his understanding of nandrolone is so low, that his solution for this problem was to up his testosterone dose. That’s literally the opposite of what he should of done. That’s only going to make the problem worse.

Third, he’s recommending very high doses of nandrolone. Around 700mg/ week. I assume this is around what he was running when he ran into issues. Who knows how high of a test dose he was taking.

Bottom line is this guy knows basically nothing about nandrolone, and is a prime example of what can happen when you don’t research something before putting it into your body.

 

[DS3]

Have only had time to watch the 1st video so far. This is literally a prime example of what I’m talking about though. This guy could not have used nandrolone more incorrectly if he tried.

So first off, he thinks that the sexual dysfunction he experienced was due to deca increasing his prolactin levels. This is 100% false. Guys using nandrolone solo have extremely low levels of prolactin. Nandrolone produces extremely low levels of both E2 and prolactin, verified over and over again via blood work. His sexual dysfunction could of still been due to prolactin, but it’s because the test he was running was producing a lot of prolactin, and the nandrolone was making that prolactin more potent at the receptor. Again, that’s if prolactin was the cause of the sexual dysfunction.

Second, his understanding of nandrolone is so low, that his solution for this problem was to up his testosterone dose. That’s literally the opposite of what he should of done. That’s only going to make the problem worse.

Third, he’s recommending very high doses of nandrolone. Around 700mg/ week. I assume this is around what he was running when he ran into issues. Who knows how high of a test dose he was taking.

Bottom line is this guy knows basically nothing about nandrolone, and is a prime example of what can happen when you don’t research something before putting it into your body.

@Gman86 this video was merely meant to serve as a piece of anecdotal evidence that nandrolone does cause problems in some men. Every single guy I posted a video about, including Dave Crosland, are dumb guys. Not one of these videos was meant to represent scientific information regarding nandrolone, with the exception of the two studies Dave Crosland presented. Rather, they were meant to show you, barring any HYPOTHESIS you have regarding E2 and prolactin, that it isn't just GENETIC OUTLIERS that have issues with nandrolone. They are plenty of anecdotes of guys who can't take nandrolone.

 

[DS3]

Have only had time to watch the 1st video so far. This is literally a prime example of what I’m talking about though. This guy could not have used nandrolone more incorrectly if he tried.

So first off, he thinks that the sexual dysfunction he experienced was due to deca increasing his prolactin levels. This is 100% false. Guys using nandrolone solo have extremely low levels of prolactin. Nandrolone produces extremely low levels of both E2 and prolactin, verified over and over again via blood work. His sexual dysfunction could of still been due to prolactin, but it’s because the test he was running was producing a lot of prolactin, and the nandrolone was making that prolactin more potent at the receptor. Again, that’s if prolactin was the cause of the sexual dysfunction.

Second, his understanding of nandrolone is so low, that his solution for this problem was to up his testosterone dose. That’s literally the opposite of what he should of done. That’s only going to make the problem worse.

Third, he’s recommending very high doses of nandrolone. Around 700mg/ week. I assume this is around what he was running when he ran into issues. Who knows how high of a test dose he was taking.

Bottom line is this guy knows basically nothing about nandrolone, and is a prime example of what can happen when you don’t research something before putting it into your body.

@Gman86 "His sexual dysfunction could of still been due to prolactin, but it’s because the test he was running was producing a lot of prolactin, and the nandrolone was making that prolactin more potent at the receptor."

Why do you keep making these statements as if they are scientifically proven??? For real dude, are you so desperate for nandrolone answers that you will so willingly believe anything that a bro like Taeian Clark says?

 

[DS3]

"I think you’re assuming that the things he says about nandrolone are his opinion."

@Gman86 Hardly. I believe he has likely read a plethora of studies regarding nandrolone. However, without the ability to conduct a series of studies to test hypotheses such as the ones that Taeian has come up with after correlating data from various studies, touting those hypotheses as fact without testing them is the epitome of pseudoscience.

It is all good and fine to read studies and report on them and posit hypotheses, but without the ability to test hypotheses, it really stops there.

"I understand that most people feel more comfortable hearing the information come out of a doctors mouth, and trust what they’re saying is correct if they have a PHD next to their name, but what you have to understand is that Taeian and physicians are reading the same exact studies."

Agree completely. However, journal access is limited as a layperson. The problem is that without post-graduate training to fully understand the implications of scientific studies, especially training in pharmacology or a related field in medicine, relying on a layperson's (e.g. Taeian) ability to decipher the true implications of studies regarding nandrolone is unreliable at best.

@Gman86 you have a response to this?

 

[Gman86]

@Gman86 "His sexual dysfunction could of still been due to prolactin, but it’s because the test he was running was producing a lot of prolactin, and the nandrolone was making that prolactin more potent at the receptor."

Why do you keep making these statements as if they are scientifically proven??? For real dude, are you so desperate for nandrolone answers that you will so willingly believe anything that a bro like Taeian Clark says?

Nandrolone is known to produce extremely low levels of prolactin on its own. This is verified by bloodwork in every guy running nandrolone by itself. It’s not an opinion, or a hypothesis. Run nandrolone by itself, and you’ll see that your prolactin level is rock bottom. So how could deca be elevating this man’s prolactin level and causing sexual dysfunction?

Deca could still be the problem, if prolactin was his issue. But it would have to be due to deca amplifying the effects of the prolactin produced by the testosterone he was taking. If prolactin was his issue, why would you blame the compound that produces extremely little of it? Wouldn’t the compound that is known to produce moderate to high amounts of prolactin be the more guilty compound? Again, that’s if he’s correct in assuming prolactin was his issue.

 

[Gman86]

@Gman86 this video was merely meant to serve as a piece of anecdotal evidence that nandrolone does cause problems in some men. Every single guy I posted a video about, including Dave Crosland, are dumb guys. Not one of these videos was meant to represent scientific information regarding nandrolone, with the exception of the two studies Dave Crosland presented. Rather, they were meant to show you, barring any HYPOTHESIS you have regarding E2 and prolactin, that it isn't just GENETIC OUTLIERS that have issues with nandrolone. They are plenty of anecdotes of guys who can't take nandrolone.

Im not sure what you’re not understanding. Go find and read the study on nandrolone sensitizing E2 and prolactin receptors. It’s not bro science. I’m not sure what you want me to do. Would you only believe it if you ran the study proving it? Do you only believe certain studies? I’m just not understanding why if it was proven by at least one study, why it’s still “bro science”. Isn’t bro science things that bro’s make up without actual scientific evidence?

And of course there are gonna be guys that have issues on deca. But where’s the examples of men using nandrolone correctly that are having sexual function issues. I’m sure they’re out there, but why can’t anyone present a single case? You’re really saying that since this guy had no clue what he was doing, and ran nandrolone the complete opposite way that it’s meant to be used, that this means that guys should be very concerned about the same thing happening to them? All this video was, is a guide on how to use nandrolone if you want to guarantee sexual dysfunction.

 

[SilverSurfer]

@Gman86 this video was merely meant to serve as a piece of anecdotal evidence that nandrolone does cause problems in some men. Every single guy I posted a video about, including Dave Crosland, are dumb guys. Not one of these videos was meant to represent scientific information regarding nandrolone, with the exception of the two studies Dave Crosland presented. Rather, they were meant to show you, barring any HYPOTHESIS you have regarding E2 and prolactin, that it isn't just GENETIC OUTLIERS that have issues with nandrolone. They are plenty of anecdotes of guys who can't take nandrolone.

LOL! I was going to say....how the heck do you listen to these meatheads, much less take them seriously.

I briefly clicked on a couple of the various one posted by you and Gman, and was like...wow! This is painful. And then in one I hear him talking about taking 700 mg of Deca and 1 GRAM of testosterone every week.

 

[DS3]

Im not sure what you’re not understanding. Go find and read the study on nandrolone sensitizing E2 and prolactin receptors. It’s not bro science. I’m not sure what you want me to do. Would you only believe it if you ran the study proving it? Do you only believe certain studies? I’m just not understanding why if it was proven by at least one study, why it’s still “bro science”. Isn’t bro science things that bro’s make up without actual scientific evidence?

And of course there are gonna be guys that have issues on deca. But where’s the examples of men using nandrolone correctly that are having sexual function issues. I’m sure they’re out there, but why can’t anyone present a single case? You’re really saying that since this guy had no clue what he was doing, and ran nandrolone the complete opposite way that it’s meant to be used, that this means that guys should be very concerned about the same thing happening to them? All this video was, is a guide on how to use nandrolone if you want to guarantee sexual dysfunction.

Post the study mate. I did go and search for the study, guess what... couldn’t find a study reporting that. So if it’s out there, post it.

I’ve literally shown evidence from my own bloodwork that E2 and prolactin decreased while adding nandrolone to my Trt. Even if these receptors were sensitized, no serum increase in E2 or prolactin would not result in side effects merely because the receptors are more sensitive.

And No, it doesn’t HAVE to be a prolactin issue. These guys all take caber or dostinex for prolactin and have issues.