Nandrolone Experiences

[Gus80]

I don't think I posted this video here. If you can, try to put subtitles in English. This doctor is Brazilian and has good experience in the use of nandrolone as a testosterone substitute in patients who respond poorly to traditional TRT.
He does a lot of tests on himself and makes videos or posts reporting.

Now, perhaps the most interesting thing is his reports of using Deca on his mother, grandmother, mother-in-law and father, precisely because it has less impact on the increase in e2, common in the elderly.

In this other video he reports that he applied Deca to his grandmother until she was 105 years old.

 

[Painjunky]

I’ll post this here since it’s relevant to the op .
So this is the second time this has happened to me. The first time I Just dropped the deca , ran nolva for a month and everything went back to normal.
I’m a month in to adding deca to my trt.
40mg test c e3days
40mg of deca e3days
Hcg 200 iu e3 days
E2 has jumped 45pts to 95
Prolactin up 2 points over upper range
My pea size gyno have flared up to marble size and my nips deal like they’re inside out.
Seems the most recent consensus is that deca lowers shbg which increases free t hence increasing test sides. Unfortunately I didn’t run a lab for that this time around although in the past shbg always hovered around 25-29 10-50nmo1/L
My plan this time is to continue with the deca , lower my t dose to 30mg and add 100mg of primo week for 20 weeks. My goal is to lower e2 and prolactin while sticking with the deca over the next few months, re-take labs and then decide if I want to continue with just the deca and lower t dose or just stick with my original protocol of test and hcg.
If anyone has advice, critique or similar experiences I’d love to hear it!

 

[Gman86]

I’ll post this here since it’s relevant to the op .
So this is the second time this has happened to me. The first time I Just dropped the deca , ran nolva for a month and everything went back to normal.
I’m a month in to adding deca to my trt.
40mg test c e3days
40mg of deca e3days
Hcg 200 iu e3 days
E2 has jumped 45pts to 95
Prolactin up 2 points over upper range
My pea size gyno have flared up to marble size and my nips deal like they’re inside out.
Seems the most recent consensus is that deca lowers shbg which increases free t hence increasing test sides. Unfortunately I didn’t run a lab for that this time around although in the past shbg always hovered around 25-29 10-50nmo1/L
My plan this time is to continue with the deca , lower my t dose to 30mg and add 100mg of primo week for 20 weeks. My goal is to lower e2 and prolactin while sticking with the deca over the next few months, re-take labs and then decide if I want to continue with just the deca and lower t dose or just stick with my original protocol of test and hcg.
If anyone has advice, critique or similar experiences I’d love to hear it!

checkout @avaialableuser experience near the end of this thread. Might give u an idea of where to go from here

Terrible Nandrolone Experience

I think I'll stick with my 100mg per week routine I've been on. I do take a qtr pill of exemestane once a week now so I'll keep that the same as well and just let things work themselves out. Perfect. A rational decision in the middle of a hormonal shitshow. You'll be better soon. So the...

www.excelmale.com

 

[Gman86]

@Painjunky and as far as I know nandrolone doesn't lower SHBG any more than test would. Not sure where u heard that. Maybe u got a little confused because nandrolone doesn’t bind to SHBG, or binds very weakly, from my understanding. But it doesn’t lower SHBG and free up hormones or anything like that. At least from what I’ve heard, and seen, and seen in my own labwork. I did a deca based protocol for around 10 months, and my SHBG was just as high, if not slightly higher, than using a test base

 

[Nelson Vergel]

The gyno flares up because of increases in IGF1.

Nolvadex decreases IGF1 a lot. So, you lose a lot of your muscle pump.

If you truly have gynecomastia from the past, I would stay on TRT and get it surgically removed. Getting on nandrolone or any other anabolics will always increase your IGF1. Even oxandrolone, which does not aromatase, can increase IGF1.

Gynecomastia Associated with a Combination of High IGF-1 and Estradiol In Adolescents

A Longitudinal Study of Growth, Sex Steroids and Insulin-like Growth Factor I in boys with Physiological Gynecomastia Physiological gynecomastia is common in pubertal boys and appears to be associated with increased levels of insulin like growth factor-1 (IGF-1) and pubertal growth, but not...

www.excelmale.com

 

[Painjunky]

The gyno flares up because of increases in IGF1.

Nolvadex decreases IGF1 a lot. So, you lose a lot of your muscle pump.

If you truly have gynecomastia from the past, I would stay on TRT and get it surgically removed. Getting on nandrolone or any other anabolics will always increase your IGF1. Even oxandrolone, which does not aromatase, can increase IGF1.

Gynecomastia Associated with a Combination of High IGF-1 and Estradiol In Adolescents

A Longitudinal Study of Growth, Sex Steroids and Insulin-like Growth Factor I in boys with Physiological Gynecomastia Physiological gynecomastia is common in pubertal boys and appears to be associated with increased levels of insulin like growth factor-1 (IGF-1) and pubertal growth, but not...

www.excelmale.com

Igf is at 164 52-328 ng/ml
gyno is not visibly noticeable nor can I really feel it unless my receptors get lit up.
thanks for the heads up on nova.

 

[Painjunky]

@Painjunky and as far as I know nandrolone doesn't lower SHBG any more than test would. Not sure where u heard that. Maybe u got a little confused because nandrolone doesn’t bind to SHBG, or binds very weakly, from my understanding. But it doesn’t lower SHBG and free up hormones or anything like that. At least from what I’ve heard, and seen, and seen in my own labwork. I did a deca based protocol for around 10 months, and my SHBG was just as high, if not slightly higher, than using a test base

I just learned about it on this thread. Unfortunately I’m too lazy to find it for you. Maybe a few pages back. Not sure if it’s true or not but if I understand correctly , some folks are switching to deca as a base because lowers shbg hence increasing free t hence needing less mgs of t equaling less t sides.
ill have to go back and make sure I didn’t misunderstand

 

[JimGainz]

I’ll post this here since it’s relevant to the op .
So this is the second time this has happened to me. The first time I Just dropped the deca , ran nolva for a month and everything went back to normal.
I’m a month in to adding deca to my trt.
40mg test c e3days
40mg of deca e3days
Hcg 200 iu e3 days
E2 has jumped 45pts to 95
Prolactin up 2 points over upper range
My pea size gyno have flared up to marble size and my nips deal like they’re inside out.
Seems the most recent consensus is that deca lowers shbg which increases free t hence increasing test sides. Unfortunately I didn’t run a lab for that this time around although in the past shbg always hovered around 25-29 10-50nmo1/L
My plan this time is to continue with the deca , lower my t dose to 30mg and add 100mg of primo week for 20 weeks. My goal is to lower e2 and prolactin while sticking with the deca over the next few months, re-take labs and then decide if I want to continue with just the deca and lower t dose or just stick with my original protocol of test and hcg.
If anyone has advice, critique or similar experiences I’d love to hear it!

Your approach is sound. I am planning to start the same in nearly the exact dosages that you have.

Primabolin should definitely knock down E2 but the question is how much? If it were me and I had gyno flare, I would run a low dose Ai for a month while the primo kicks in. In addition, you may need to run Nolvadex year round to prevent gyno.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

as far as I know nandrolone doesn't lower SHBG any more than test would.

What you forget is that when people use nandrolone, they add it to TRT. So, there is a bigger total androgen dose that decreases SHBG even more than with TRT alone.

 

[Painjunky]

Your approach is sound. I am planning to start the same in nearly the exact dosages that you have.

Primabolin should definitely knock down E2 but the question is how much? If it were me and I had gyno flare, I would run a low dose Ai for a month while the primo kicks in. In addition, you may need to run Nolvadex year round to prevent gyno.

With e2 in 40-50 range I get no gyno sides. I mean I have very small lumps behind my nips that can only be noticed by touching for them. However they will flare up when e2 or prolactin go up.
i have an ai anastrozol 1mg. I’m paranold to take it from all the horror stories I hear.
Not sure how I can can accurately administer?

 

[Gman86]

What you forget is that when people use nandrolone, they add it to TRT. So, there is a bigger total androgen dose that decreases SHBG even more than with TRT alone.

This definitely makes sense. And what I’ve seen in my labs I’m pretty sure. Hard to tell atm since I’m also using low dose primo

 

[Gman86]

I just learned about it on this thread. Unfortunately I’m too lazy to find it for you. Maybe a few pages back. Not sure if it’s true or not but if I understand correctly , some folks are switching to deca as a base because lowers shbg hence increasing free t hence needing less mgs of t equaling less t sides.
ill have to go back and make sure I didn’t misunderstand

Ya u just misunderstood a bit. Thats not why people are switching to a nandrolone base. Nandrolone isn’t a compound known to lower SHBG. DHT derivatives do. And increasing total androgen load will usually lower SHBG, in a linear fashion. The reason people are switching to a nandrolone base is to avoid androgenic side effects that can come along with a test base. Sides mainly caused by either DHT, E2, prolactin, or all 3. Nandrolone converts very little into E2, and since E2 is the main stimulator of prolactin production, in males, it results in very low E2 and prolactin levels. And nandrolone converts to DHN, which is similar to DHT, just much weaker. So people are switching to a nandrolone base to get all the benefits of having healthy androgen levels, while avoiding any side effects that may come from having too high levels of DHT, E2 and/ or prolactin, for them personally. Everyone is different in what levels of these hormones work for them obv

 

[Painjunky]

Ya u just misunderstood a bit. Thats not why people are switching to a nandrolone base. Nandrolone isn’t a compound known to lower SHBG. DHT derivatives do. And increasing total androgen load will usually lower SHBG, in a linear fashion. The reason people are switching to a nandrolone base is to avoid androgenic side effects that can come along with a test base. Sides mainly caused by either DHT, E2, prolactin, or all 3. Nandrolone converts very little into E2, and since E2 is the main stimulator of prolactin production, in males, it results in very low E2 and prolactin levels. And nandrolone converts to DHN, which is similar to DHT, just much weaker. So people are switching to a nandrolone base to get all the benefits of having healthy androgen levels, while avoiding any side effects that may come from having too high levels of DHT, E2 and/ or prolactin, for them personally. Everyone is different in what levels of these hormones work for them obv

Got it. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Fernando Almaguer]

The gyno flares up because of increases in IGF1.

Nolvadex decreases IGF1 a lot. So, you lose a lot of your muscle pump.

If you truly have gynecomastia from the past, I would stay on TRT and get it surgically removed. Getting on nandrolone or any other anabolics will always increase your IGF1. Even oxandrolone, which does not aromatase, can increase IGF1.

Gynecomastia Associated with a Combination of High IGF-1 and Estradiol In Adolescents

A Longitudinal Study of Growth, Sex Steroids and Insulin-like Growth Factor I in boys with Physiological Gynecomastia Physiological gynecomastia is common in pubertal boys and appears to be associated with increased levels of insulin like growth factor-1 (IGF-1) and pubertal growth, but not...

www.excelmale.com

I want the surgery. My case is milder and insurance will not cover. It is pretty expesive i hear.

 

[JimGainz]

Update and new protocol.

It’s been a while since I posted here and I thought I’d give an update as to my current protocol and latest results. I have been a long term nandrolone user and advocate. My previous protocol was 80mg Testosterone and 120 mg nandrolone every 6 days.

A few months ago I noticed that I have started having some blood pressure spikes and long story short is I went on Losartan /50 mg per day and it lowered my average BP from 138/75 to 129/69 in about two months.

While this was going on, in late February, I started getting some flareups for all of my joint related issues. You name it, everything hurt, wrist, elbows, knees ankles everything. I took somewhat of a radical approach and I don’t know if it was any one of the items I mentioned below, or a combination, but it worked wonders:

- increased nandrolone to 150 E6D for 2 weeks, then back to 120, then 80
- took Oxandralone (Anavar) 20 mg on workout days for 2 weeks, then every day for 2 weeks
- injected BPC157 IM for about 3 weeks). I have used this compound before, but only for about two weeks at a time and always injecting it near the source of injury. This is the first time I just did an intramuscular injection because my research indicated that it does work systemically
- drastically changed my weightlifting program to much more moderate and lighter weights with higher reps, forgoing barbell moves and instead using the totalgym, or some very light barbell hack squats with like 60 pounds for high reps.

Result.: I gained 5 pounds of mass, my body weight went from about 210 pounds to 215. I am 6‘1“ tall and 55 years old. My waist did not increase. I gained 1 inch on my thighs and about half an inch on my arms. But the main thing is that my pain had significantly diminished. In fact I felt so good I actually dropped the nandrolone completely about 6 weeks ago and have been just continuing with Testosterone and hCG.

I just started adding in 50 mg of primabolin 2 weeks ago. Primo actually has pretty strong collagen synthesis ability, not as much as a Nandrolone, but fairly close. My plan is just to run this very low dose along with my testosterone, which I have changed to doing 70 mg every five days so that’s 120 mg of total androgens every five days which I think is a very reasonable dose.

I have been continuing to gain muscle and lose fat. I am now about 208 pounds, very vascular with abs showing and look and feel fantastic. My plan is to run this for about 10 to 12 weeks, and then I might throw back in the nandrolone or alternate nandrolone and primo. I am tempted, but holding back, on throwing some more anavar in on workout days because it was amazing. I get bloods next week and I’ll see how everything is but overall this is the best I’ve looked and felt in years.

 

[Fortunate]

Update and new protocol.

It’s been a while since I posted here and I thought I’d give an update as to my current protocol and latest results. I have been a long term nandrolone user and advocate. My previous protocol was 80mg Testosterone and 120 mg nandrolone every 6 days.

A few months ago I noticed that I have started having some blood pressure spikes and long story short is I went on Losartan /50 mg per day and it lowered my average BP from 138/75 to 129/69 in about two months.

While this was going on, in late February, I started getting some flareups for all of my joint related issues. You name it, everything hurt, wrist, elbows, knees ankles everything. I took somewhat of a radical approach and I don’t know if it was any one of the items I mentioned below, or a combination, but it worked wonders:

- increased nandrolone to 150 E6D for 2 weeks, then back to 120, then 80
- took Oxandralone (Anavar) 20 mg on workout days for 2 weeks, then every day for 2 weeks
- injected BPC157 IM for about 3 weeks). I have used this compound before, but only for about two weeks at a time and always injecting it near the source of injury. This is the first time I just did an intramuscular injection because my research indicated that it does work systemically
- drastically changed my weightlifting program to much more moderate and lighter weights with higher reps, forgoing barbell moves and instead using the totalgym, or some very light barbell hack squats with like 60 pounds for high reps.

Result.: I gained 5 pounds of mass, my body weight went from about 210 pounds to 215. I am 6‘1“ tall and 55 years old. My waist did not increase. I gained 1 inch on my thighs and about half an inch on my arms. But the main thing is that my pain had significantly diminished. In fact I felt so good I actually dropped the nandrolone completely about 6 weeks ago and have been just continuing with Testosterone and hCG.

I just started adding in 50 mg of primabolin 2 weeks ago. Primo actually has pretty strong collagen synthesis ability, not as much as a Nandrolone, but fairly close. My plan is just to run this very low dose along with my testosterone, which I have changed to doing 70 mg every five days so that’s 120 mg of total androgens every five days which I think is a very reasonable dose.

I have been continuing to gain muscle and lose fat. I am now about 208 pounds, very vascular with abs showing and look and feel fantastic. My plan is to run this for about 10 to 12 weeks, and then I might throw back in the nandrolone or alternate nandrolone and primo. I am tempted, but holding back, on throwing some more anavar in on workout days because it was amazing. I get bloods next week and I’ll see how everything is but overall this is the best I’ve looked and felt in years.

Curious to see if Anavar hits your lipids.

 

[JimGainz]

Curious to see if Anavar hits your lipids.

I have run higher doses, for longer and got blood results mid way through and my HDL dropped from upper 50s to about mid 40s. LDL stayed pretty much the same but I am on a statin- so it may have went from like 60 to 70. Still well within a very good range. I have been off the Anavar for about six weeks so I would expect the lipids to be back to normal. My main concern was to see if any liver enzymes or PSA elevation but I will find that out soon.

 

[Gus80]

I’ll post this here since it’s relevant to the op .
So this is the second time this has happened to me. The first time I Just dropped the deca , ran nolva for a month and everything went back to normal.
I’m a month in to adding deca to my trt.
40mg test c e3days
40mg of deca e3days
Hcg 200 iu e3 days
E2 has jumped 45pts to 95
Prolactin up 2 points over upper range
My pea size gyno have flared up to marble size and my nips deal like they’re inside out.
Seems the most recent consensus is that deca lowers shbg which increases free t hence increasing test sides. Unfortunately I didn’t run a lab for that this time around although in the past shbg always hovered around 25-29 10-50nmo1/L
My plan this time is to continue with the deca , lower my t dose to 30mg and add 100mg of primo week for 20 weeks. My goal is to lower e2 and prolactin while sticking with the deca over the next few months, re-take labs and then decide if I want to continue with just the deca and lower t dose or just stick with my original protocol of test and hcg.
If anyone has advice, critique or similar experiences I’d love to hear it!

Nadrolone does not aromatize in humans, only in rats. This is the conclusion of all physicians who perform HRT with this compound on their patients. The Brazilian doctor Romulo Jogaib states that in 6 weeks of Deca Only the e2 will be zeroed. I confirmed this on my first try of HRT with Deca 1 year ago. It took longer, 12 weeks, as I am an over-aromatizing guy, after that period I had erection and libido problems.
So I went back to the research and found that many men do well on 4:1 or 3:1 nandrolone:testosterone.
Above that start the problems, the higher the dose of testosterone the greater the problems. Nandrolone appears to increase testosterone's ability to aromatize and increase prolactin. Just observe that thousands of men have problems with excess e2 and prolactin in doses of trt, without the use of nandrolone. I had high prolactin and e2 3x above the upper range using 100mg of T per week.
Nandrolone is perfect for men with low SHBG, it has very low affinity for shbg, does not aromatize and does not convert to dht. Dr Jeffrey Ruterbusch uses it on his patients with low shbg for just this purpose.
So here we come to the cutoff: if the man has normal or high shbg, he's going to have big problems with Deca. These are guys who do well on high doses of Testosterone and benefit from shbg lowering dht derivatives. I also believe they are the ones who can use lower doses of nandrolone with higher doses of testosterone.
What was your shbg before the start of steroids? What is your current shbg? Apparently your shbg is pretty low as this Testosterone dose is pretty conservative.

If before the trt the man has shbg<30, it is a strong predictor that he will do extremely badly with any dose of Testosterone. He is the ideal patient for low dose clomiphene while decreasing BF and perhaps regaining axis without needing TRT. The problem is that once TRT is started, these patients begin to respond poorly to clomid therapy. Leftover Deca Base, Deca Only or Jatenzo.

 

[Gus80]

Ya u just misunderstood a bit. Thats not why people are switching to a nandrolone base. Nandrolone isn’t a compound known to lower SHBG. DHT derivatives do. And increasing total androgen load will usually lower SHBG, in a linear fashion. The reason people are switching to a nandrolone base is to avoid androgenic side effects that can come along with a test base. Sides mainly caused by either DHT, E2, prolactin, or all 3. Nandrolone converts very little into E2, and since E2 is the main stimulator of prolactin production, in males, it results in very low E2 and prolactin levels. And nandrolone converts to DHN, which is similar to DHT, just much weaker. So people are switching to a nandrolone base to get all the benefits of having healthy androgen levels, while avoiding any side effects that may come from having too high levels of DHT, E2 and/ or prolactin, for them personally. Everyone is different in what levels of these hormones work for them obv

Nandrolone as a Potential Alternative Androgen with Reduced Androgenic Side Effects for Transfeminine and Transmasculine People

Nandrolone as a Potential Alternative Androgen with Reduced Androgenic Side Effects for Transfeminine and Transmasculine People by Aly

transfemscience.org

Congrats on the summary. You have touched the target points.

Here's the best article I've read about the benefits of Nandrolone as HRT. It is an article aimed at the trans audience, but we also know that HIV patients often use nandrolone in place of Testosterone, most scientific studies of nandrolone as HRT are on these patients.

 

[Gus80]

To help those who still don't know Deca Only and Deca Base:

- Deca Only: actually not only, as nandrolone does not aromatize in humans. They usually combine nandrolone + injectable estradiol or nandrolone + dhea (higher doses of dhea in men convert much more to e2 than to testosterone, unlike women).

- Deca Base: they use 25% to 33% of testosterone in relation to the dose of nandrolone. These are the 4:1 and 3:1 protocols. Examples: 200mg of nandrolone/50mg of testosterone or 150mg of nandrolone/50mg of testosterone. The ideal is to seek the lowest effective dose. In this protocol the man will still have some production of DHT which can be beneficial for some and harmful to those who are sensitive to DHT.