False. It is you that needs to re-listen. Masterjohn clearly supports what I am saying. He states clearly the NR that gets past the liver is negligible. Precursors are distributed by the liver as NAM. Masterjohn reasons he'd rather supply his liver with NAD/NAM via NR than by NAM itself, which I do not agree with. Masterjohn only uses 150 mg NR daily. He has issues flooding the system with NAM (or NR apparently). This comes down primarily to dosage and timing which negates the potential negatives. I'm not recommending anybody take 2 grams NAM daily or take it 24x7. Some due consideration of methyl donors (which applies equally to NR or NAM) may be warranted for some, but this has not been a part of our discussion. I don't think we have disagreement there. Our debate has to do with your misunderstanding of the pathways and studies which leads to your exaggerated hyping of NR. Your declarations of victory and superiority based on your ongoing "true lies" strategy are comical and short-sighted.
NAD, Hype Or Miracle Molecule?
- Thread starter Will Brink
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Will Brink
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Tommy Wall
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If I understand you right its the niacine that what you need (might be in different forms) but it seems to effect one libido accorinding to the attached lists
Do You Take Drugs That Might Cause Sex Problems?
Do You Take Drugs That Might Cause Sex Problems?
Will Brink
Member
It lists high dose for cholesterol management but not sure what data he's basing that on.
Tommy Wall
Member
Will Brink
Member
Such as? Dose makes the poison, always. Of course NR, and NAD, are not niacin, but metabolites there of so still apples and oranges kinda thing
Tommy Wall
Member
Will I forgot to post the link never mind I just googled side effects of Niacin and there were many of course dose depended, but I’m a bit confused what to choose. I bought Niacinamide 500 mg which is the cheaper alternative but after reading the above I’m not sure if that the best choice.
Chiming in here a few months after the fact. I tried Tru Niagen NR 250 mg. May have already been said here, but apparently NR is currently the most effective NAD precursor to 'get inside' the cells and increase NAD+. Anyway I began taking the supplement, with absolutely no other changes in my diet/supplements/exercise/etc, and within 3 days I experienced the worst somnolence and fatigue of my entire life. Literally was sleeping 9 hours a night (I'm usually 7-8), and taking multiple naps during the day. I discontinued the supplement and the side effects disappeared within 36 hours. I gave the supplement the benefit of the doubt, and was open to the fact that perhaps I had caught some bug. Anyway, I started the supplement again about a week later and the exact same thing happened after just 2 days. Wanting to 'snap myself out of it' I took a mountain bike ride - literally the worst ride and likely the most dangerous I've been on, even though the trail was simple (not too steep and not technical); I had almost no energy and no focus. I stopped taking the supplement and of course within 24 hours I'm fine. There was a study showing mice that had their NAD+ levels boosted with NR had decreased exercise performance.... and it wasn't marginal. It was an average 35% less than the control group. And only one mouse on the NAD+ managed to surpass the median level of the control group. Wondering if this stuff, while showing anti-aging 'benefits,' comes at the price of basically shutting down the energy delivery systems (at least for people like me). Kind of like cryo-freeze or cryo-sleep in the movies. Again we are not rats and this is just my experience. I desperately wanted this stuff to work; I would have been fine and kept going on it even if I felt nothing, with the assumption that the benefits were taking place under the surface. Anyway there ya have it and here is the mouse/rat study: The NAD + precursor nicotinamide riboside decreases exercise performance in rats and Niagen Research Shows DECREASED Athletic Performance!
Will Brink
Member
For raising NAD+ levels, not the best choice no matter what some wanna be scientists here had claimed. So far, NR appears the best choice for raising intra cellular NAD+ levels.
Will Brink
Member
We really need some human studies to see what's going on there, that's for sure to see of those negative effects on performance transfer to humans. It's also important to note what's a benefit to anti aging/longevity does not always transfer to athletics/performance and such. They're two different goals technically. For example, lots of studies find calories restriction (CR) extends the life span of animals of all kinds, but any endurance athlete would see a seriuous hit in performance following CR. NR may just be a + to longevity and a - to performance, although that sounds a bit counter intuitive at first.
I recently completed a series of 6 NAD IV's over a two week period and did not see any benefit. At a cost of $3600 would not recommend wasting time or money! One odd thing after I felt very weak and still do and found my iron went from 140 to 40 and iron saturation from 45 to 15. I have no clue if it is tied but would never do this again. Eat right and optimize your hormones and gut health skip the rest!
Such a good point. I think I’ve also heard similar things about growth hormone, and how having very elevated growth hormone levels due to exogenous injections can slightly hinder longevity, by using up growth factors at a faster rate, or something like that.
Will Brink
Member
Subjectively, I have mixed reports on the infusion. What as your dose per infusion? Some report all manner of benefits, from improved mood and sleep, to a big drop in interest in alchohol. I did three of them, and can't say I noticed anything one way or another.
PS,You were seriously ripped off BTW.
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Loki
Member
What should the cost be and what are the typical dosings? The clinic I go to is offering this now and many are swearing by it... It has be intrigued!
Guided_by_Voices
Well-Known Member
I noticed that Peptide Sciences is now selling it for IM or SubQ (I assume) injection. I think the previous mentions were of clinics doing IV. It will be interesting to get some feedback from those doing IM/SubQ.
Nelson Vergel
Founder, ExcelMale.com
I took it for a while. It made me hot and I gained fat without eating more. I did not feel any difference in energy or any other variable.
Will Brink
Member
What were you taking? NAD precursor NR?
Will Brink
Member
Seems all over the place and no doubt, over priced considering costs of materials which is not high. There's some data to suggest NR may be superior to actual NAD+ for entry into the cell and an increase in NAD+ and some doing NR infusions also. Oral NR may be adaquate for increasing NAD+ tissue levels. While I too speak to people who eave about it, I can't report anything noticiable from the NAD+ infusions. I had 3. Perhaps it depends on the pre existing NAD+ status of the person, but not sure. Way more data is needed.
Nelson Vergel
Founder, ExcelMale.com
I took TRU Niagen (nicotinamide riboside chloride) 2 capsules of 250 mg each
Will Brink
Member
500mg would probably be seen as min dose. You can get NR less expensive from LEF and some others I think, but it's still overly expensive in my view. That's not the fault of the companies selling it BTW, the major seller of NR (ChromaDex) with patents charges way too much wholesale for it. Currently locked in a massive legal battle:
https://www.right-of-assembly.org/p...uide-to-the-elysium-chromadex-litigation-2019
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