Metformin Blocks Benefits of Aerobic Exercise on Insulin Sensitivity and VO2 max

[Joe Sixpack]

why are you wanting to take metformin? Blood Gluscose problems or general health benefit?

Glucose. My A1C is not great at 5.5. But even a moderate dose of carbs, say 20-25g sometimes sends my glucose up over 140.

 

[DragonBits]

Glucose. My A1C is not great at 5.5. But even a moderate dose of carbs, say 20-25g sometimes sends my glucose up over 140.

Similar to me as far as BG goes, though my A1C was 5.8 one time.

But I eat a lot of carbs, so reducing my carbs really lowered my BG. Losing 20 lbs probably helped as well.

Metformin causes me no problems, but with or without it I can control my BG. And by no means do I eat low carb, just not binging on popcorn / pretzels, yogurt covered raisins, pizza and beer was enough to lower my BG.

I used to consider popcorn a meal, eating a 16 quart bowl and going through 50lbs of popcorn in 3 months.

I think you are right, even if you don't cut up the Met Er you will get diarrhea, but it's worth a try to see. People do report that ER gives them less problems.

Here is another thing I didn't know.

Even after several years of taking metformin with no problems, you can develop serious diarrhea as a result of taking it.

I don't know your diet or weight, if you can reduce your carbs or lose weight it will help lower BG a lot. Many people go on low / lower carbs and get a good drop in BG.

 

[dnfuss]

Glucose. My A1C is not great at 5.5. But even a moderate dose of carbs, say 20-25g sometimes sends my glucose up over 140.

An HgbA1c of 5.5 is an estimated average serum gluscose of 111. What is your fasting glucose upon arising? What is it after a carb-heavy meal?

 

[Joe Sixpack]

Similar to me as far as BG goes, though my A1C was 5.8 one time.

But I eat a lot of carbs, so reducing my carbs really lowered my BG. Losing 20 lbs probably helped as well.

Metformin causes me no problems, but with or without it I can control my BG. And by no means do I eat low carb, just not binging on popcorn / pretzels, yogurt covered raisins, pizza and beer was enough to lower my BG.

I used to consider popcorn a meal, eating a 16 quart bowl and going through 50lbs of popcorn in 3 months.

I think you are right, even if you don't cut up the Met Er you will get diarrhea, but it's worth a try to see. People do report that ER gives them less problems.

Here is another thing I didn't know.

Even after several years of taking metformin with no problems, you can develop serious diarrhea as a result of taking it.

I don't know your diet or weight, if you can reduce your carbs or lose weight it will help lower BG a lot. Many people go on low / lower carbs and get a good drop in BG.

Here's my problem. I am already at 8% body fat and already eating low carb and already exercising. I lift 4x/week and walk 8+ miles per day. So I have already done virtually all the things I can do without the metformin.

 

[Joe Sixpack]

An HgbA1c of 5.5 is an estimated average serum gluscose of 111. What is your fasting glucose upon arising? What is it after a carb-heavy meal?

My fasting is always between 92-98. At the lab, taken around 8-9AM, it is almost always 96. And I haven't had a carb heavy meal in over 9 months, which is when I discovered the connection between insulin and heart disease. But seeing as how 20-30 grams of carbs sends me up to and past 140, I would bet that a plate of pasta would send me to 200.

 

[dnfuss]

My fasting is always between 92-98. At the lab, taken around 8-9AM, it is almost always 96. And I haven't had a carb heavy meal in over 9 months, which is when I discovered the connection between insulin and heart disease. But seeing as how 20-30 grams of carbs sends me up to and past 140, I would bet that a plate of pasta would send me to 200.

Twenty to 30 grams of carbohydrate in one sitting is not a low carbohydrate diet. Low carb is certainly below 50 grams per day. Diets that are ketogenic/very low carb, of real value in controlling diabetes, keep total carbohydrates below 20 or 30 grams per day.

But from what you've written my guess is that even a ketogenic diet wouldn't give you normal blood sugars. You'll probably have to go on metformin or some other agent in addition to a low-carb diet and exercise to control your diabetes.

 

[Joe Sixpack]

Twenty to 30 grams of carbohydrate in one sitting is not a low carbohydrate diet. Low carb is certainly below 50 grams per day. Diets that are ketogenic/very low carb, of real value in controlling diabetes, keep total carbohydrates below 20 or 30 grams per day.

But from what you've written my guess is that even a ketogenic diet wouldn't give you normal blood sugars. You'll probably have to go on metformin or some other agent in addition to a low-carb diet and exercise to control your diabetes.

I agree and I'd love to do metformin. sadly so far it gives me the runs. Hopefully at some point I can start to tolerate it. We'll see.

I should also clarify. I do not usually eat 20-30 grams at a time on a routine basis. I just did this as an experiment to see what would happen. I rarely go over 50 grams for a full day with most days being below 40. I have done keto for extended periods but I don't feel very well below 20 grams. I got thru the keto flu period but even after several months of keto, my body didn't tolerate it.

 

[dnfuss]

Perhaps you will be able to tolerate the extended-release form of metformin. I take mine at night (2000 mg) to combat high morning glucose levels (dawn phenomenon). If not, there are other oral agents to try.

I cannot recommend too highly to you the book Diabetes Solution by Dr. Richard K. Bernstein for information regarding metformin and everything else having to do with diabetes. He is certainly the pre-eminent diabetologist of the last several decades. The book is incredibly detailed and packed with useful insight and practical advice. If you follow the program he outlines, you can absolutely achieve truly normal blood sugars. You won't be "cured" (i.e., once again have naturally normal blood sugars without having to exercise or eat low carb or take medication), but you will be able to keep you blood sugars totally within the normal ranges of the completely non-diabetic.

I am 61 years old and have followed Dr. Bernstein's advice for nearly 10 years. Both of my diabetic parents followed the ADA-recommended high-carb diet and were insulin-dependent by the time they were my age (and their blood sugars were nearly always what I would now consider unacceptably high). I am on only metformin, along with a low-carb diet and (not nearly enough) exercise. I can't be sure following Dr. Bernstein's recommendations is the reason I haven't had to go on insulin, but so far so good.

 

[Joe Sixpack]

Perhaps you will be able to tolerate the extended-release form of metformin. I take mine at night (2000 mg) to combat high morning glucose levels (dawn phenomenon). If not, there are other oral agents to try.

I cannot recommend too highly to you the book Diabetes Solution by Dr. Richard K. Bernstein for information regarding metformin and everything else having to do with diabetes. He is certainly the pre-eminent diabetologist of the last several decades. The book is incredibly detailed and packed with useful insight and practical advice. If you follow the program he outlines, you can absolutely achieve truly normal blood sugars. You won't be "cured" (i.e., once again have naturally normal blood sugars without having to exercise or eat low carb or take medication), but you will be able to keep you blood sugars totally within the normal ranges of the completely non-diabetic.

I am 61 years old and have followed Dr. Bernstein's advice for nearly 10 years. Both of my diabetic parents followed the ADA-recommended high-carb diet and were insulin-dependent by the time they were my age (and their blood sugars were nearly always what I would now consider unacceptably high). I am on only metformin, along with a low-carb diet and (not nearly enough) exercise. I can't be sure following Dr. Bernstein's recommendations is the reason I haven't had to go on insulin, but so far so good.

I appreciate the recommendation. I'll have to look into that. I think I will be in good shape if I can get my body to tolerate the metformin. The small amount I did take (that gave me diarrhea, did lower my glucose levels by a good 5-10 points, I would estimate. So if I can get to tolerate the full 500mg pill good things will happen.

 

[BradWI]

I started Metformin almost a year ago. My blood glucose dropped about 10 points on average over that time.

I thought I could attribute that fully to the Metformin but I didn't take it for a week and my readings didn't budge upwards at all. Is that a long enough test for it to be out of my system? I test 2-4 times a day. Fasted, post prandial, post exercise, before bed.

 

[dnfuss]

I started Metformin almost a year ago. My blood glucose dropped about 10 points on average over that time.

I thought I could attribute that fully to the Metformin but I didn't take it for a week and my readings didn't budge upwards at all. Is that a long enough test for it to be out of my system? I test 2-4 times a day. Fasted, post prandial, post exercise, before bed.

Even though metformin's half life (~7hrs.) would suggest it should be fully gone in 36 hours or so, many diabetics have reported for years, and diabetologists have often observed this effect in their patients, that, just as metformin seems to take two to three weeks before the fullest effect is achieved, it seems to take two to three weeks off of it before most patients are truly back to "baseline." Perhaps there is some tissue saturation effect that is achieved and must be depleted when titrating off. Who knows? YMMV

 

[BradWI]

Well I had my Defy blood work yesterday so if fasting insulin comes in under 6 I'll try 6 months without Metformin.

Glucose isn't really an issue because I don't eat carbs. Curious to see what my A1C comes back as. I'll guess 4.8-4.9.

 

[DragonBits]

Even though metformin's half life (~7hrs.) would suggest it should be fully gone in 36 hours or so, many diabetics have reported for years, and diabetologists have often observed this effect in their patients, that, just as metformin seems to take two to three weeks before the fullest effect is achieved, it seems to take two to three weeks off of it before most patients are truly back to "baseline." Perhaps there is some tissue saturation effect that is achieved and must be depleted when titrating off. Who knows? YMMV

I think this is right, I didnt' take metformin for a month, it seemed like it took 3 weeks before my bg became more erratic.

But I am not diabetic, though maybe I have a slightly odd insulin response, even without metformin my a1c was 5.2.

Metf didn't seem to affect in any discernible way my exercise.

 

[BradWI]

Well I had my Defy blood work yesterday so if fasting insulin comes in under 6 I'll try 6 months without Metformin.

Glucose isn't really an issue because I don't eat carbs. Curious to see what my A1C comes back as. I'll guess 4.8-4.9.

A1C 4.7
Fasting Glucose 79
Fasting Insulin 5.0
HOMA-IR .97

Gonna drop it for next 6 months.

 

[Joe Sixpack]

I think this is right, I didnt' take metformin for a month, it seemed like it took 3 weeks before my bg became more erratic.

But I am not diabetic, though maybe I have a slightly odd insulin response, even without metformin my a1c was 5.2.

Metf didn't seem to affect in any discernible way my exercise.

Did you get ANY sideFX from Metf?

 

[JohnTaylorHK]

Perhaps you will be able to tolerate the extended-release form of metformin. I take mine at night (2000 mg) to combat high morning glucose levels (dawn phenomenon). If not, there are other oral agents to try.

I cannot recommend too highly to you the book Diabetes Solution by Dr. Richard K. ... I can't be sure following Dr. Bernstein's recommendations is the reason I haven't had to go on insulin, but so far so good.

It really is a great book, and has interesting info also for non-diabetes (or not necessarily diabetes) related issues, e.g. chapter 22 on Gastroparesis. Recommended read.

 

[DragonBits]

Did you get ANY sideFX from Metf?

I don't think it had any side effects, sometimes I felt more of a craving for sweets, maybe that was just diet related. At first it did seem to help me lose weight.

I have been taking it for the last month, I can take or or leave it, my bg is a little lower with it, but small changes in diet and losing weight were enough to keep bg a1c to 5.2%. It's not like I am low carb at all, just don't pig out on high carb snacks.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

I felt fatigued and I lost muscle. That is why I stopped Metformin after 2 months.

Study dispels the hypothesis that metformin could help exercising seniors gain more muscle mass


clinical trial initiated by University of Kentucky researchers argues against the hypothesis that the diabetes drug metformin could help exercising seniors gain more muscle mass. The double-blind trial, conducted at the University of Kentucky and University of Alabama at Birmingham, found that older adults who took metformin while performing rigorous resistance exercise training had smaller gains in muscle mass than the placebo group. The results of the trial were published in Aging Cell, September 26.

 

[DragonBits]

I felt fatigued and I lost muscle. That is why I stopped Metformin after 2 months.

Study dispels the hypothesis that metformin could help exercising seniors gain more muscle mass


clinical trial initiated by University of Kentucky researchers argues against the hypothesis that the diabetes drug metformin could help exercising seniors gain more muscle mass. The double-blind trial, conducted at the University of Kentucky and University of Alabama at Birmingham, found that older adults who took metformin while performing rigorous resistance exercise training had smaller gains in muscle mass than the placebo group. The results of the trial were published in Aging Cell, September 26.

Nelson

How soon after stopping metformin did you feel your fatigue dissipate?

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Nelson

How soon after stopping metformin did you feel your fatigue dissipate?

Like two weeks. I got my pump at the gym also around that time. Metformin affects the mitochondria. It may be great for people with metabolic issues like diabetes, insulin resistance, obesity, but I seriously doubt that this study will show good results in healthy older people.

American Federation for Aging Research : TAME Trial

https://www.healio.com/endocrinology/diabetes/news/online/{8a93ae8b-94bd-4bfd-b1ad-d6133a8e2ce2}/metformin-may-hold-anti-aging-promise-to-increase-health-span