Medical Marijuana Discussion By Will Brink

[Saul]

Of course people fake illnesses to obtain MMJ cards. News flash - People fake illnesses to get opium based pain pills too. Hard to stop. They don't fake cancer or MS. . . they go for back pain, chronic pain, or arthritis. I have clients in the industry and it is understood there is some level of dishonesty. Check out presto doctor. They are the doctors that you tell your symptoms and they give you the card - all over a web link. Not much to prove. Same with many in person doctors. Even in the insurance industry with the best of doctors it is hard to disprove back pain, chronic pain, or arthritis.
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I live in a legal state both medical and recreational and the thing I am most surprised about is that nothing has changed. Since it become full legal I don't smell it, don't see it, and it is not talked about that much other than advertisements and the news. I am thankful police/court time and $ is not spent on cannabis arrests. I hope they are focusing on opium/Rx based pain pills and violent crime or crime against children. Also thank full that people who need it are getting relief, even without having to jump through the hoops and added expense of getting a card. Tax revenue - we will see if they spend it wisely. Cannabis was always available and anyone who really wanted it was going to get it - even teens. All that is changing is the source .
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Finally, as to it being illegal for so many years and the Feds telling us there is no medical benefit and it should stay schedule 1, if someone lies to you, can you trust them on anything else? The Feds classify it as Schedule 1 with no medical use - which is clearly not true.

 

[Will Brink]

I actually appreciate the freedom to make my own choices and self treat without having to jump the med card hoops.

IME, The double edged sword isn't predominantly because of differing state laws. Until the feds re or deschedule from schedule 1 status and things change in the mainstream medical system, MDs in general have little incentive and precious few resources to base recommendations for patients' treatment.

A needed fed schedule change goes without saying. States have decided to push the issue on their own being tired of the illogical and profit motivated schedule I for marijuana. The catch 22 is most docs (and rightly so) ask for for data to recommend it, but little research gets done due to the schedule. There's more research out there than many realize (I was one of those who felt there was minimal research until I started looking), and from that Harvard source above:

"My advice for doctors is that whether you are pro, neutral, or against medical marijuana, patients are embracing it, and although we don't have rigorous studies and “gold standard” proof of the benefits and risks of medical marijuana, we need to learn about it, be open-minded, and above all, be non-judgmental. Otherwise, our patients will seek out other, less reliable sources of information; they will continue to use it, they just won't tell us, and there will be that much less trust and strength in our doctor-patient relationship. I often hear complaints from other doctors that there isn't adequate evidence to recommend medical marijuana, but there is even less scientific evidence for sticking our heads in the sand."

 

[Deleted member 16042]

Goes without saying...

Which is why we both said it! LOL!

The other double edge that goes without saying is the spectre of regulation which like TRT has the potential to take away options for people to self manage with or without medical supervision. Once mainstream medicine is into it up to their armpits, I predict our currently increasing freedoms to use MJ will be compromised.

 

[Will Brink]

Here in Massachusetts, there are 9 medical reasons for a medical marijuana card. I have to see a special MD once a year to renew my card, I fit into 2 categories with my RA and chronic pain. There was an article in a Boston paper that mentioned that only 9% of those with a MMJ card received it for the first 9 reasons, the 93% were for number 10, other or not mentioned. (this includes anxiety and other non clinical reasons).
Because my inflammatory markers were high over the past 15 years(example CRP was as high as 70, normal is <5), I use the MMJ tincture with more *** than THC, I also use ashwagandha , ALA, ginger, and fish oil. I also try and keep my Omega 3 to 6 levels closer together, than O6 high, it has been suggested that Paleo man was at a 1-1 relationship for Omega 3 & 6, the average Joe today has a Omega 6 level closer to 40 to 1.

I moved from MA just as all that was happening. My understanding is very few medical dispensaries were opened and that's been a major issue for those in MA with a MM card. Is that still the case? If not for the cost of living, the weather, the taxes, the gun laws, the traffic, the M*******s, and the weather, MA would be a great place to live

I am doing the teaching for my Rheumatologist on Medical Marijuana use, she works for a group affiliated with Harvard, (as did I in the research side) and Harvard MDs are not allowed to discuss MMJ with patients or attend inservices. She had no idea, prior to my discussing it with her that there are specific strains for each type of medical issue. Funny part is, she is originally from Israel, where most of the research has been going on for some time.

Indeed. They appear to know even less about that topic than they do about TRT! Mention different esters of T and you usually get a blank look. They're also often under the impression there's essentially no data on MM, and are stunned to find that too, is not true. We need considerably more data to be sure in terms who, what, when, where MM benefits and where it does not, but there's far more data than most realize. I became interested in the topic last year or so after reading a study, then looking further and deeper. I realized my own knowledge was lacking and took the steps to change that.

Of course people fake illnesses to obtain MMJ cards. News flash - People fake illnesses to get opium based pain pills too. Hard to stop. They don't fake cancer or MS. . . they go for back pain, chronic pain, or arthritis. I have clients in the industry and it is understood there is some level of dishonesty. Check out presto doctor. They are the doctors that you tell your symptoms and they give you the card - all over a web link. Not much to prove. Same with many in person doctors. Even in the insurance industry with the best of doctors it is hard to disprove back pain, chronic pain, or arthritis.
.
I live in a legal state both medical and recreational and the thing I am most surprised about is that nothing has changed. Since it become full legal I don't smell it, don't see it, and it is not talked about that much other than advertisements and the news. I am thankful police/court time and $ is not spent on cannabis arrests. I hope they are focusing on opium/Rx based pain pills and violent crime or crime against children. Also thank full that people who need it are getting relief, even without having to jump through the hoops and added expense of getting a card. Tax revenue - we will see if they spend it wisely. Cannabis was always available and anyone who really wanted it was going to get it - even teens. All that is changing is the source .
.
Finally, as to it being illegal for so many years and the Feds telling us there is no medical benefit and it should stay schedule 1, if someone lies to you, can you trust them on anything else? The Feds classify it as Schedule 1 with no medical use - which is clearly not true.

Well said and agreed. I think it's also important to understand medical applications and approaches can be very different than recreational. Smoking it the least effective and safe way to use it medically. Recreational, most smoke it.

 

[davidrn]

I moved from MA just as all that was happening. My understanding is very few medical dispensaries were opened and that's been a major issue for those in MA with a MM card. Is that still the case? If not for the cost of living, the weather, the taxes, the gun laws, the traffic, the M*******s, and the weather, MA would be a great place to live

As things have evolved with the dispensaries over the past few years, i have benefited. Once every 6 months I drive 30 minutes to the closest dispensary, and buy 6 vials of tincture, with my vets discount, I spend about $250 - $300 every 6 months. Even better, time I went to buy, they offered free delivery, (if you bought more than $200 of product) .
As to everything else, I am not the only conservative in the state, but I am surrounded by older folks who think AntiFa is doing "good works". I was fortunate as my pre retirement job was in public health, so I know most of local politicians and LEOs, so. getting a concealed carry permit was fairly painless.

As too MDs and their lack of knowledge on MMJ, I feel the same about my usage of LDN (low dose Naltrexone), most MDs have no idea what I talk about when I mention my drugs, or my interest in the microbiome, (that word was started in usage in 2000). Hopefully, research into medical usage will catch up to other countries. However, just like LDN, it is not a product that can be patented, and so, private research funds will be limited.

 

[Will Brink]

As things have evolved with the dispensaries over the past few years, i have benefited. Once every 6 months I drive 30 minutes to the closest dispensary, and buy 6 vials of tincture, with my vets discount, I spend about $250 - $300 every 6 months. Even better, time I went to buy, they offered free delivery, (if you bought more than $200 of product) .
As to everything else, I am not the only conservative in the state, but I am surrounded by older folks who think AntiFa is doing "good works". I was fortunate as my pre retirement job was in public health, so I know most of local politicians and LEOs, so. getting a concealed carry permit was fairly painless.

As too MDs and their lack of knowledge on MMJ, I feel the same about my usage of LDN (low dose Naltrexone), most MDs have no idea what I talk about when I mention my drugs, or my interest in the microbiome, (that word was started in usage in 2000). Hopefully, research into medical usage will catch up to other countries. However, just like LDN, it is not a product that can be patented, and so, private research funds will be limited.

Oh, it's worse then that, while pharma gives more $ than anyone to anti drug programs and politicians, they have been quietly researching the benefits of MM and filing patents. Good news, a phase 2 clinical just done finding stat sig benefits in brain cancer. Bad news, same company already making it difficult to sell *** after a judge upheald their credulous patent. You're already seeing companies using terms to like "cannabis concentrate" vs specific *** products. That will only get worse and if possible, they will medical cannabis locked up solid where possible.

 

[Will Brink]

Wanna be in a study? This is the type of data we need more of, and you can be in it if you match the inclusion criteria. The gubment posts upcoming studies, and outlines what the inclusion criteria is at the bottom of the page. Working title for this study is "Safety and Efficacy of Medical Cannabis Oil in the Treatment of Patients With Chronic Pain."

Study Description

Brief Summary:

Seeking for effective therapeutic strategies, the investigators are proposing to test the effectiveness of different formulations of medical cannabis oil to alleviate chronic pain, which was partially relieved with conventional prescriptions. Furthermore, the investigators would like to assess the effect of different formulations of medical cannabis oil on other symptoms associated to chronic pain like anxiety and depression, as well as insomnia and appetite. Finally, as recently recommended for clinical studies on medical cannabis, the investigators will examine the safety profile of different cannabis formulations focusing on the following elements: a real chronic administration with more than two weeks of treatment, a larger number of patients, and the clinical relevance of medical cannabis oil to change the amount and type of concomitant medications used to control chronic non-cancer and cancer pain.

Cont:



https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT03337503

 

[Will Brink]

A new review on the benefits of MM and multiple sclerosis:

Researchers Say Cannabis Can Benefit People with Multiple Sclerosis

After a review of scientific studies, researchers say extracts from marijuana plants can help treat pain and spasticity symptoms in people with multiple sclerosis.

"A systematic review recently presented at the Consortium of MS Centers in Tennessee has concluded that cannabinoids may have “modest effects in multiple sclerosis for pain or spasticity.”

Researchers looked at the safety and effectiveness of cannabis as well as studying its impact on disability and disability progression, pain, spasticity, bladder function, tremor/ataxia, quality of life, and adverse effects.

Five reviews concluded that there was sufficient evidence that cannabinoids may be beneficial for symptoms of pain and spasticity in multiple sclerosis (MS).

The review suggested future research include studies with noncannabinoid comparisons, noting an important gap in the studies.

The cannabis plant contains many biologically active chemicals, including about 60 cannabinoids."

Cont:

https://www.healthline.com/health-n...-can-benefit-people-with-multiple-sclerosis#2

Source:

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fneur.2018.00183/full

 

[Will Brink]

*** NEWS:

Which is good and bad in my view. Good News: We are now seeing *** based medications coming out and FDA approved to treat serious illness, thus further confirming that CBDs can have real therapeutic value in some conditions

Bad news: that will also be used to attempt to remove *** as a nutritional supplement by pharma who, as pharma wants to protect its investment, IP, etc, tends to do if possible. Will they succeed? Right now, seems FDA looking more to enforce unsupported claims of OTC sellers of ***, and that on its face is not a negative per se.

However, it's clearly the first step in the pharma/FDA interests to remove the competition from the market that may compete with their products. This will be an interesting time for medical cannabis, drugs based on cannabis, access to OTC products, and so forth.

Cont:

http://www.nutritionaloutlook.com/r...pproval-threaten-legal-status-***-supplements

 

[Will Brink]

Makes sense seniors on various meds to control pain would find benefit in MM:


THURSDAY, July 5, 2018 (HealthDay News) -- Seniors are giving rave reviews for medical marijuana.

In a new survey, those who turned to it for treating chronic pain reported it reduced pain and decreased the need for opioid painkillers.
Nine out of 10 liked it so much they said they'd recommend medical pot to others.
"I was on Percocet and replaced it with medical marijuana. Thank you, thank you, thank you," said one senior.

Another patient put it this way: "It [medical marijuana] is extremely effective and has allowed me to function in my work and life again. It has not completely taken away the pain, but allows me to manage it."

Cont:

https://www.webmd.com/pain-management/news/20180705/medical-marijuana-a-hit-with-seniors#1

 

[Will Brink]

A vid on one persons journey finding relief from TN

TN is short for Trigeminal Neuralgia. TN is very painful and often difficult to treat. This is N = 1 subjective to be sure, but very compelling and her interviews with the doc at UCLA medical, etc worth watching. A must watch for anyone with TN, and other associated neuropathic pain conditions:

 

[Sean Mosher]

Have a relative with TN and man is it debilitating.
Thank you for posting!

 

[Will Brink]

Have a relative with TN and man is it debilitating.
Thank you for posting!

That would be the obvious treatment to try. Good luck bro.

 

[Vince Carter]

What are the...safe guards(?) from those that are trying to (legally) get high vs the kid that needs that certain oil(?) for a debilitating disease? I've not supported it because of just legalizing getting high, I don't believe in the medical marijuana angle, but decriminalizing personal use I can listen to that discussion. I more concerned between the legit uses that I acknowledge exist over the stoner just getting high. I think I'd rather have someone using this over Big Pharma chemicals and potions but there's a huge slippery slope in my eyes.

 

[Will Brink]

What are the...safe guards(?) from those that are trying to (legally) get high vs the kid that needs that certain oil(?) for a debilitating disease? I've not supported it because of just legalizing getting high, I don't believe in the medical marijuana angle, but decriminalizing personal use I can listen to that discussion. I more concerned between the legit uses that I acknowledge exist over the stoner just getting high. I think I'd rather have someone using this over Big Pharma chemicals and potions but there's a huge slippery slope in my eyes.

Varies state to state, ranging from minimal to stringent. It's fairly stringent in FL. Person has to be diagnosed by a separate doc for an approved condition (list above), then doc licensed for MM goes through the process which is a PITA. For the most part, I suspect effective from separating those who have legit medical need from those who just wanna get stoned. The people I have seen so far had legit medical need and benefited in terms of less pain, reduction in use of other more toxic, meds, etc. It needs to be removed from the ridiculous schedule 1 it's in now to be sure.

 

[Coopsdaddy]

Just voted yes in Oklahoma for medical but law makers are trying to make if very difficult.

 

[Will Brink]

Medical Marijuana vs Opioids




Another study finds Medical Marijuana Reduces Opioid Prescriptions:




"In this study, we found that statewide medical cannabis legalization implemented in 1993 - 2014 in the US was associated with close to 30% reductions in Schedule III opioids received by Medicaid enrollees," the researchers, from the University of California San Diego and Weill Cornell Medical College, wrote in the journal Addiction.

Cont:






https://www.forbes.com/sites/tomang...QTpZeabpPkQ8hPkdc&_hsmi=64537821#54b18d66b002

 

[Will Brink]

Medical M vs Alcohol:

An interesting finding: MM appears to lower intake of alcohol:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomas...nt-in-states-with-medical-marijuana-laws/amp/

 

[Samanler]

Some people might fake it, but there are other who really benefit from cannabis oil and TCH use.