Masteron?

tmckenzie · Jan 21, 2014

I read that in other countries, masteron is used for dht. Why not here, besides legalities? Wondering if a man such as myself who aromatizes terribly and is very sensitive to the effects of it, might be better off on masteron? I am no expert, but I have found no experts who can explain my trouble. Thanks!

GettingAnswers · Jan 21, 2014

Do you have a bloodwork thread or centralized thread discussing you results, meds and issues?

tmckenzie · Jan 21, 2014

I had a thread going over in testosterone is not enough. And basically my trouble is, my t levels are great, last check 700 I think, dhea low, adrenal fatigue, sgbh is always low, around 16. E is always too high. I was feeling like crap warmed over. Got to reading. Found that some men on a lot of pain meds do not get the full effect of arimidex. So I asked dr and pharmacist, they said sometimes it happens, but mildly. Well I started treating by symptom, it takes 1 mg per day of arimidex to get rid of symptoms and make me feel normal. Now my libido still could be tuned up, but at least my breast are down, not located, not near as much joint pain, and energy is through the roof, motivation is back etc. all the good things about trt. Dr. Wanted me to cut back to .75 a day. The first day, by lunch, I was startling to bloat and nipples where out of control with a deep itch that went all the way to my armpits. The dose I am on. 3.5 ml of t compounded with dhea twice a week and hcg 500 twice a week, I should not even need an ai. My body fat is low, my weight is good, diet pretty good, a1c was a point high, all blood counts look great except my kidneys are always a bit off. So I cannot figure it out. That amount of arimidex cannot be healthy. And if I could take something different for hrt that would not aromatise, I might be better off. By the way e was tested last week. Sensitive assay, it was less than 3.

GettingAnswers · Jan 21, 2014

So it doesn't sound like you have elevated e2, rather you are extremely sensitive to any levels of e2. You only feel good when your levels are tanked. So are any of the meds you are on estrogenic in nature? Ie they mimic estrogen in their effects on the body?

If you are on HCG just to maintain testicle size and function you could probably do well on half that dose and that should reduce e2 conversion.
I know DHEA is low but I have read that some folks convert most DHEA to estrogen especially with adrenal issues. Maybe something to look at.

Beyond that you are out of my knowledge range!! As my doctor just said, the best thing you can do is to get comprehensive results and then look at all the hormone pathways and see where things are pooling and where they seem to get diverted and then see if you can correct it. Good luck

tmckenzie · Jan 21, 2014

It is high without treatment and I do not feel good until it tanks. Nothing I take is estrogenic, I checked. The dhea could be some of it, but this has happened before I got on it. Seems like a dr somewhere could look at the whole picture and say ok, this is what we do. If I cut the hcg dose back I get nut aches bad. I wonder if the adrenals play a big part, but I do not know any way to find out. My regular dr put me on cortisone to help, but I cramp up so bad I cannot take it. So she said get off of it. And offered no other advice. When you have no insurance it is hard to get well. Thanks for your input!

Vettester Chris · Jan 21, 2014

OP, yes, adrenals could be in question, which would also have a correlation with the thyroid. Cortisol should be checked with a 4x saliva kit, then review the circadian profile. If somehow you can get that, ACTH, Aldosterone, full thyroid (FT4, FT3, RT3, TSH, & Antibodies), and all the relevant labs. Has your doctor reviewed your iron/ferritin with you? With all that AI, I have concerns with what it could be doing to your liver function. There's a lot of variables, start with BW, and make sure your physician is helping you look at all the angles.

tmckenzie · Jan 21, 2014

Yes, I have had the saline cortisol test, fine upon waking, but after that, the levels completely plummet. After trying cortisone replacement, and it made me feel worse with all the cramping, the dr gave up on it. Dhea levels were way below normal too. I use defy, so I can get bloodwork through labcorp at a good rate, I think I will order these tests in the am. I have no insurance, tried getting it through the new exchanges, but they will not cover trt and just for me, the cheapest plan that even made a little sense was 700 a month. I do not make that kind of money. So I have no insurance and doctors do not want to do anything for me. defy is good, but I am a tough case. I am concerned with liver too. I have had elevated enymes for years, when I got on trt though, they went to normal. I was poisoned with benzene and radium years ago, and I am sure that has something to do with my problems. But they should be treatable. What is your thoughts on masteron? Thanks!

tmckenzie · Jan 22, 2014

Dr. Does not want to check anything else at this time.

GettingAnswers · Jan 22, 2014

I have read that Masteron is the choice in many places overseas. Doing a quick google search last night and found this (all of which might not relate to you)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aromatase_excess_syndrome

However, under treatments

Several treatments have been found to be effective in managing AES, including aromatase inhibitors and gonadotropin-releasing hormone analogues in both sexes, androgen replacement therapy with non-aromatizable androgens such as DHT in males

Nelson Vergel · Jan 22, 2014

tmckenzie said:
I had a thread going over in testosterone is not enough. And basically my trouble is, my t levels are great, last check 700 I think, dhea low, adrenal fatigue, sgbh is always low, around 16. E is always too high. I was feeling like crap warmed over. Got to reading. Found that some men on a lot of pain meds do not get the full effect of arimidex. So I asked dr and pharmacist, they said sometimes it happens, but mildly. Well I started treating by symptom, it takes 1 mg per day of arimidex to get rid of symptoms and make me feel normal. Now my libido still could be tuned up, but at least my breast are down, not located, not near as much joint pain, and energy is through the roof, motivation is back etc. all the good things about trt. Dr. Wanted me to cut back to .75 a day. The first day, by lunch, I was startling to bloat and nipples where out of control with a deep itch that went all the way to my armpits. The dose I am on. 3.5 ml of t compounded with dhea twice a week and hcg 500 twice a week, I should not even need an ai. My body fat is low, my weight is good, diet pretty good, a1c was a point high, all blood counts look great except my kidneys are always a bit off. So I cannot figure it out. That amount of arimidex cannot be healthy. And if I could take something different for hrt that would not aromatise, I might be better off. By the way e was tested last week. Sensitive assay, it was less than 3.

What was your estradiol at baseline before you started anastrozole (hopefully tested by the ultrasensitive test)? You say you feel great at 1 mg per day of anastrozole. You also say you are lean. As you know, low estradiol has been linked to bone loss, sexual dysfunction, visceral fat build up and cognitive dysfunction. It does not seem that you have any of these symptoms although it would be nice to know your bone density in a few months of this high dose.

tmckenzie · Jan 22, 2014

My e was never tested with sensitive assay. Reg assay was 56 last check. Was not checked before I was put on trt. Yes, I know the symptoms, but I have them with normal to high levels. I have little fat, even reg dr said I was jacked. I do not drink much, just taking the tramadol and klonopin. I phoned primary dr about a bone density and they said I did not need one. I will ask dr Saya if I continue on this path. I would really love to get to the root of the issue. But with no insurance, that may not happen. Which is why I am considering masteron, even though not legal. That dose of arimidex can't be good and I think you are right we needs some estradiol. Just seems overwhelming to have to go it alone. Defy is good, but I may be too tough a case?

Vettester Chris · Jan 24, 2014

T, it's really difficult to make too many comments without having all the BW labs, and saliva where applicable. A standard estrogen assay can have a lot of deviation and does not give us the accuracy that's needed when really trying to understand where you're E2 is at. Somehow, someway, we really need a sensitive assay.

Yes, it wouldn't surprise me if adrenals are having issues, which would/could complicate matters with the thyroid, and beyond. Basically, you need the entire gamut. I think you might be gambling with trying to add a compound like Masteron, and I'd suggest against it. You could get just about all the necessary BW labs, and the saliva 4x cortisol + DHEA; all for approx. $400-$500 depending on extras like antibodies, RT3, B12, etc., which might be a la carte. However, if you and your physician want to get the program on track, there's just no way around it. Save the $$ you might spend on the Masteron and put it towards the right labs.

Vettester Chris · Jan 24, 2014

For the most part, here's the gamut ...

Total Testosterone Serum
Free & Bio Testosterone
SHBG
Estradiol (E2) Sensitive
Prolactin
DHT
Cortisol (4x Saliva Panel) ...
... ACTH (not always needed, but it will portrait the feedback loop productivity with the adrenals, and help if certain diseases are in question i.e., Addison's, Cushing's,)
... Aldosterone (Again, probably not on the 'standard' follow up requisition list, but something to consider if adrenal issues persists, and other variables like High BP is a factor, i.e., ruling out Conn Syndrome)
DHEA
Thyroid Panel ...
... -TSH, Free T4, Free T3, Reverse T3, Thyroid Antibodies (TPO, TgAb for Hashis and Graves)
Iron (TIBC & Saturation % if possible)
Ferritin
CBC w/Diff
Comprehensive Metabolic Panel
Lipid Panel
PSA
IGF-1
Vitamin D3 (essential with the effective management of SHBG, and much more!)
Vitamin B12