Lump after sub q pin

[dickielongate]

I am trying sub q and the first one went well, but the second attempt has left me sore with a bit of a lump. Nothing sever, just sensitive to the touch, and a firm area about the size of a squashed pea. Not hard, just firmer than the surrounding tissue.

The injection was 3 days ago, and was 60mg of T enanthate injected with a 29g 15 mm needle at 45 degrees.

Anything to do at this point?

Thanks for reading.

 

[Vince]

nodules can occur from time to time, it can take two weeks before completely gone. Have you ever considered shallow IM?

 

[dickielongate]

I just read the whole thread this morning started by you about going to ED injections, so yeah. And by the way I have decided to move to ED today

My understanding of sub q is that scar tissue is less of an issue because that happens when the fluid displaces muscle tissue. I also understand that because there are less blood vessels in fatty tissue that uptake is slower, resulting in less a lower peak absorption rate. Supposedly this results in less aromatization to E2. I also read that the total T can be higher from sub q.

All of this can be me getting it wrong, so fire away anyone who knows better.

I really don't have any intelligence on how shallow IM plays into these factors, was planning to look into it.

Scar tissue is my main concern, especially moving to ED.

Thanks

 

[S1W]

So you injected .3ml (60mg) SubQ? Where did you inject?

To put your mind at ease, those are not unusual and it will go away and not cause any issues.

In my experience there seems to be a volume limit to SubQ injections...much above .30-.35ml and lumps are not uncommon. Also, a straight 45 degree injection seems to be too shallow for me and leads to more lumps. I almost never do well with the abdominal area either.

If as you say you are switching to daily injections, I assume your injections from here will be much smaller than .3ml... I used .3cc 30g 5/8" syringes for daily - works great with the small volume, and go in at a very slight angle.

Anyway, it's one of those things you'll just get through trial and error. Good luck.

 

[dickielongate]

Both replies put my mind at ease, thank you.

It was the abdomen for me, 2 inches from the belly button. The only other place I could try is love handles I think, arms too skinny. Makes sense to try 90 degrees I suppose.

Yes once over to daily I'll be going for around 20mg, so presumably less of an issue.

 

[Vince Carter]

The only thing you have to worry about is redness and such...an infection. A lump and/or soreness is rather common post injection site reaction. You can always shift injection sites, too, finding a spot that works better is a way to mitigate. I used to have lots of PIP in my belly so I stopped using it and now only use deltoids.

 

[dickielongate]

Thanks. No redness, so I guess standard stuff.

I guess you mean shallow IM in the delts?

 

[Vince Carter]

I dont shallow IM or SQ, per se, I stick that 29g 1/2" and just inject it without regard to that.

 

[Cataceous]

... I also understand that because there are less blood vessels in fatty tissue that uptake is slower, resulting in less a lower peak absorption rate. Supposedly this results in less aromatization to E2. I also read that the total T can be higher from sub q.
...

The slower absorption of subQ vs IM doesn't result in a change in average estradiol, but it should lower the peaks and raise the troughs, which may be beneficial to some. Similarly, trough testosterone is higher, but peak testosterone is lower, for better or for worse.

 

[dickielongate]

Well Iam learning all the time and what you say about average E2 seems plausable.

On the other hand I read and hear a lot how higher frequency jabs lead to lower overall aromatisation, due to lower peaks in T. So if sub q smooths out peaks in T uptake, shouldn't this also contribute to less E2 conversion?

If what you say is true there is a linear relationship between average T and average E, which I can buy. But isn't it the E peaks that cause problems not the averages?

 

[Cataceous]

Well Iam learning all the time and what you say about average E2 seems plausable.
...

Not just plausible, but demonstrated quite nicely in the Antares study.

...
On the other hand I read and hear a lot how higher frequency jabs lead to lower overall aromatisation, due to lower peaks in T. So if sub q smooths out peaks in T uptake, shouldn't this also contribute to less E2 conversion?
...

No, the average estradiol conversion stays about the same if average testosterone is the same. This would change at testosterone levels over ~2,000 ng/dL, when the aromatase enzyme starts to saturate and results become less linear.

...
If what you say is true there is a linear relationship between average T and average E, which I can buy. But isn't it the E peaks that cause problems not the averages?

This is an important question that has not been answered, as far as I know.

 

[Vince]

So you injected .3ml (60mg) SubQ? Where did you inject?

To put your mind at ease, those are not unusual and it will go away and not cause any issues.

In my experience there seems to be a volume limit to SubQ injections...much above .30-.35ml and lumps are not uncommon. Also, a straight 45 degree injection seems to be too shallow for me and leads to more lumps. I almost never do well with the abdominal area either.

If as you say you are switching to daily injections, I assume your injections from here will be much smaller than .3ml... I used .3cc 30g 5/8" syringes for daily - works great with the small volume, and go in at a very slight angle.

Anyway, it's one of those things you'll just get through trial and error. Good luck.

Best testosterone injection site, no aspiration needed, avoids all nerves

 

[dickielongate]

Not just plausible, but demonstrated quite nicely in the Antares study.


No, the average estradiol conversion stays about the same if average testosterone is the same. This would change at testosterone levels over ~2,000 ng/dL, when the aromatase enzyme starts to saturate and results become less linear.


This is an important question that has not been answered, as far as I know.

Thank you, very informative

 

[dickielongate]

Best testosterone injection site, no aspiration needed, avoids all nerves

Had a read, great stuff, thanks

 

[dickielongate]

Done a couple of pins at 90 degrees. At 45 degrees I always found some soreness and also the last time, the lump issue. At 90 degrees, no discomfort at all.

Again, using a 15mm (5/8th) 29g needle.

 

[Vtail]

When I was injecting SubQ TRT made with cottonseed oil I also got angry red and sometimes itchy lumps - almost like an allergic reaction. I stopped getting those lumps when I switched to grapeseed oil from Empower. Now I alternate SubQ and IM for no reason other than I feel no different with either method, although lately I've been doing more SubQ because I find it easier.

 

[dickielongate]

Well it turns out even at 90 deg, the lumps were still there, although smaller, deeper and less sore.

So did my first delt shot, same needle, 29g 5/8ths. This is one of the few times I've injected with zero issues (so far). I like it. Can anyone comment on the risks of scar tissue doing this daily? Do I need to switch to quads occasionally?

Vtail I was made aware that the oil type can vary the level of irritation and issues before. After lots of research, I have made an order for some enanthate powder, and plan to experiment. Will post a thread about this as I go along.

For those who will worry for me: Yes I have a lab clean environment and the necessary experience. And yes I will get anything I brew sent off and thoroughly tested here in the UK before pinning.

 

[xqfq]

I had lumps and soreness for the first month or two when I was doing subQ. Eventually I sort of learned the tricks of how to go in at the correct angle and depth to avoid soreness or lumps. For me, I started visualizing where the fat was under the skin and that helped. I even watched videos and looked at pictures early on, but it just took time for me to learn.

I haven’t had any soreness or lumps in months and months- honestly can’t remember the last time it happened.

 

[dickielongate]

First, I now recognise that my mention of dodgy deals from China may not have been appropriate for this site, so rest assured, I will post about it somewhere else and possibly provide a link later.

Turns out the lumps are a slow burn thing, and at different rates according to location and angle. Every site I did subq around the abdomen has a lump now. There is one over to the left that now actually does have an uneven, but uniformly pale pink patch around it. It doesn't look like infection red with the centre more red and the even fade back to skin colour you normally see.

Also had belated muscle soreness from the delt shot, much like the early days of glutes. My practitioner told me it would go away in the glutes and it did. Same for delts?