Low progesterone? Frustrated. Thinking of pulling the plug on TRT for good.

[Jason Sypolt]

This is a garbled interpretation. Gonadorelin is bio-identical to GnRH. Natural men function by producing GnRH pulses for most of their lives. That, in effect, is extremely prolonged use. The kind of "prolonged use" you refer to as causing suppression is actually a continuous infusion of GnRH, rather then the intermittent pulses required by our bodies. This is just something described in research; it's not a treatment. It becomes a treatment intended to cause HPTA suppression when longer-lived GnRH analogs such as triptorelin are used. On the flip side, pulsed doses of gonadorelin are an approved treatment for male hypogonadism; they are proven to normalize the gonadotropins and testosterone. The need for an infusion pump is what limits its appeal. I have demonstrated that multiple daily manual injections of gonadorelin can function as a replacement for hCG, with other possible benefits. This will not be practical for most, but it absolutely works.

Don’t get me wrong, it’s fascinating. I have read the posts. It just isn’t practical in real world use. The pump would help with the dosing since no one is going to inject themselves every 2-3 hours. But there is the problem of cost developing one for this application and then cost to the patient. Right now most are better off getting Novarel/Pregnyl for a little over $100 in some areas.

What bothers me are the peptide sites and the clinics pushing this stuff as “HCG replacement”. No, it is not, and you also can’t prescribe kisspeptin to people. Very few I think are seeking to fill a need and instead are looking to recoup lost revenue (HCG) any way they can.

 

[Cataceous]

Don’t get me wrong, it’s fascinating. I have read the posts. It just isn’t practical in real world use. The pump would help with the dosing since no one is going to inject themselves every 2-3 hours. But there is the problem of cost developing one for this application and then cost to the patient. Right now most are better off getting Novarel/Pregnyl for a little over $100 in some areas.

What bothers me are the peptide sites and the clinics pushing this stuff as “HCG replacement”. No, it is not, and you also can’t prescribe kisspeptin to people. Very few I think are seeking to fill a need and instead are looking to recoup lost revenue (HCG) any way they can.

I agree that it's irresponsible of clinics to push gonadorelin as a direct hCG replacement. Chances are, without frequent dosing and concurrent use of enclomiphene it will not work as desired.

Nonetheless, I view GnRH as a possible missing link for guys on TRT. In my first thread on the subject I posed the question of whether or not lack of GnRH is hurting us. The results of the gonadorelin trial make me believe the answer is yes. Achieving some semblance of pre-hypogonadism normalcy borders on life-changing. I cannot envision going back, so don't conclude that "no one is going to inject themselves every 2-3 hours". Even though it's as unpleasant as you might imagine, if it's not practical to switch to an infusion system then I will continue the protocol. These infusion pumps do already exist; even many of the insulin-delivering systems would do the job.

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[Charliebizz]

I suspect not and that's really disheartening. That's why I was considering a total attempt at a restart, as unlikely as it might be to be a success as this point

“Restarts” are bogus. Your going to go back to your natural production. After restart. And I assume that it was low hence the trt. And in my personal experience. Coming off cold turkey isn’t much different then using clomid to get off. Because clomid brings its own set of sides even at low dose. If your gonna come off just go cold turkey.

 

[Jason Sypolt]

Thanks a lot for sharing. I tried the cream for a while and while erections were somewhat improved, it still did not give me a libido at all. I'm going to give defy a call sometime soon for a consultation and see what they recommend.

For what it’s worth, my own battle with libido was for nearly 4 years after starting TRT with a local urologist in a small town and then going to Defy after the urologist basically broke up with me in an email saying that he couldn’t help me and to maybe try “one of those new online clinics”.

It was a combination of many things: some seemingly unimportant or that which I didn’t want to admit and not just hormones. There is never only 1 cause. The most difficult for myself and for many men is the psychological part. Do not ever underestimate just how destructive your thoughts and feelings, stress, work, your relationship, (and perhaps disappointingly) everything going on in your life is to your sex life.

The medications fix the hormone problems and imbalances. So if those are not working then my advice is to expand your search.

All that said, Defy does have 2 products I would recommend. Tri-mix gives a guaranteed erection, for hours. It is literally what porn stars use and no it doesn’t hurt. Sometimes not having to worry about that is enough to gain a lot of interest back.

The other one is Bremelanotide (PT-141). It does cause nausea, like a sour stomach for 15-30 minutes and takes between 2-4 hours to feel the effect. Most accounts of it online, both good and bad are under-dosed. You would not believe what 2mg of it does to you. It makes you want to have sex so bad that it almost hurts. And it works for both men and women.

 

[antelopers]

For what it’s worth, my own battle with libido was for nearly 4 years after starting TRT with a local urologist in a small town and then going to Defy after the urologist basically broke up with me in an email saying that he couldn’t help me and to maybe try “one of those new online clinics”.

It was a combination of many things: some seemingly unimportant or that which I didn’t want to admit and not just hormones. There is never only 1 cause. The most difficult for myself and for many men is the psychological part. Do not ever underestimate just how destructive your thoughts and feelings, stress, work, your relationship, (and perhaps disappointingly) everything going on in your life is to your sex life.

The medications fix the hormone problems and imbalances. So if those are not working then my advice is to expand your search.

All that said, Defy does have 2 products I would recommend. Tri-mix gives a guaranteed erection, for hours. It is literally what porn stars use and no it doesn’t hurt. Sometimes not having to worry about that is enough to gain a lot of interest back.

The other one is Bremelanotide (PT-141). It does cause nausea, like a sour stomach for 15-30 minutes and takes between 2-4 hours to feel the effect. Most accounts of it online, both good and bad are under-dosed. You would not believe what 2mg of it does to you. It makes you want to have sex so bad that it almost hurts. And it works for both men and women.

Thanks so much Jason, I appreciate this. I know it might be personal or something you don't want to share on a forum but if you ever want to let me know what the cause was for you even just in a DM I'd love to hear it because I'll look at anything as a factor at this point. And also appreciate the info on trimix and pt141. If it comes down to it at least I know there are options like that.

 

[Jason Sypolt]

Thanks so much Jason, I appreciate this. I know it might be personal or something you don't want to share on a forum but if you ever want to let me know what the cause was for you even just in a DM I'd love to hear it because I'll look at anything as a factor at this point. And also appreciate the info on trimix and pt141. If it comes down to it at least I know there are options like that.

I'll try to reply this week when I can. Hormones can fix a lot of problems, but not all of them. Everyone should make their own choice, but for me quitting TRT wasn't ever an option. The restarts don't work most of the time, and it would put one right back at the starting line before all of what we went through, still deficient with zero of the things that TRT helps with. In other words, don't look at TRT as all or nothing because libido isn't there even though I know that is easier to write than to practice. TRT does fix some problems and certainly has its benefits even if libido isn't always one of them. We are fortunate enough to live in a time when there are other solutions and there is no shame in using them, that's what they are there for.

 

[Robotics]

my progesterone always seems to be over the range at 1.2. Not sure of the up or downsides to this.

you prolactin is not high but have you tried lowering it? I have a prolactin issue, trying to lower it currently.

 

[antelopers]

my progesterone always seems to be over the range at 1.2. Not sure of the up or downsides to this.

you prolactin is not high but have you tried lowering it? I have a prolactin issue, trying to lower it currently.

Caber gives me a Libido boost day one, but then it fades and I don't like the sides. I was experimenting with p5p and I didn't test my prolactin but it definitely helped with mood. The potential nerve issues scared me away from long term use but I might revisit it.

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

Back to basics. Thyroid. I'm reading a book by Dr. Tammas Kelly, a psychiatrist who uses mostly liothyronine to treat bipolar depression. But, the point he emphasizes is that thyroid labs don't tell the whole story since labs can look normal yet there is little thyroid getting into the cells. Peripheral Thyroid Resistance, central hypothyroidism(pituitary or hypothalamus dysfunction), even,possibly, Non-Thyroidal Illness Syndrome.

Thyroid is not only key to metabolism and cardiac health, but hormone production. I stopped TRT(test enanthate) three months ago after several years of great numbers but poor to non-existent sexual function. Though I was using thyroid for over a year, I'm now solely focusing on thyroid supplementation. Yes, self-treating with desiccated and T3 drops. A few weeks ago, I finally began losing weight; 10 pounds in three weeks. Water weight. Kept pissing and pissing. 160 to 150.

Read healthunlocked.com thyroid UK or stopthethyroidmaddness.com. Most or many doctors are ignorant about using thyroid, including endocrinologists.

 

[Robotics]

Caber gives me a Libido boost day one, but then it fades and I don't like the sides. I was experimenting with p5p and I didn't test my prolactin but it definitely helped with mood. The potential nerve issues scared me away from long term use but I might revisit it.

I am currently starting P5P and vitamin E for prolactin. might want to look into vitamin E as an alternative. perhaps with caber you are taking too high or low/or frequency of a dosage and you can find the right dosage for you would be useful to get labs on the day you feel good after taking caber and then test prolactin when you start not feeling good..

 

[antelopers]

I am currently starting P5P and vitamin E for prolactin. might want to look into vitamin E as an alternative. perhaps with caber you are taking too high or low/or frequency of a dosage and you can find the right dosage for you would be useful to get labs on the day you feel good after taking caber and then test prolactin when you start not feeling good..

Thanks for the idea. I might try that. I'd be comfortable taking vitamin e definitely and more lab work could give me some insight

 

[lowtdunce]

It is man. I’ve been on trt for nearly 11 years and since year 6 I’ve been nearly asexual but feel good otherwise. No matter what anyone says this is a very common experience with trt.

PT-141 can be a lifesaver if the normal options and protocol tweaking isn't doing the trick.

 

[sh1973]

I thought that was for erections? I don’t have ED and never have

 

[Gianluca]

I tried pure encapsulations pregnenolone 60mg every night before bed for about 6 months (with dhea on a doctor's recommendation, even though my dhea isn't low). I don't believe it is a sustained release supplement, I also did not check my progesterone on it since at the time I wasn't even considering it an issue. What's your experience like with pregnenolone? Did it help you?

You say you didn't check Progesterone levels then, most likely it was higher, Pregnenolone had a profound effect on me, my e2 side effects disappeared once I started using it, and I assume because it raised Progesterone level, if you can't have your doc to RX one try Nutricology Micronized Slow released, it must be slow released, and try to take it in the am for two weeks, then check levels of Progesterone again 2/3 hours after ingestion. Start with 50mg and work your way up slowly

 

[cmatt15]

Don’t get me wrong, it’s fascinating. I have read the posts. It just isn’t practical in real world use. The pump would help with the dosing since no one is going to inject themselves every 2-3 hours. But there is the problem of cost developing one for this application and then cost to the patient. Right now most are better off getting Novarel/Pregnyl for a little over $100 in some areas.

What bothers me are the peptide sites and the clinics pushing this stuff as “HCG replacement”. No, it is not, and you also can’t prescribe kisspeptin to people. Very few I think are seeking to fill a need and instead are looking to recoup lost revenue (HCG) any way they can.

Kingsburg medical prescribed me Kisspeptin -10 . It’s sitting in my fridge right now .