Looking for help

[Systemlord]

Many people tolerate oestrogen on the lower end of the spectrum very well.".

This is utter nonsense, that's like saying many men tolerate testosterone below normal.

By the way, that lower end is for children before puberty, not an adult male.

This is the same doctor that gave you a known anti E2 drug, with E2 at 12, right?

 

[Hai Bodong]

This is utter nonsense, that's like saying many men tolerate testosterone below normal.

By the way, that lower end is for children before puberty, not an adult male.

This is the same doctor that gave you a known anti E2 drug, with E2 at 12, right?

Exactly.

The main doctor of the clinic also responded and it did not go well. Essentially, putting the numbers aside: "the symptoms do exist and my wife has noticed the decline the past three years. Since you cannot help me, can you tell me where to look for help?" And the answer was along the lines "your symptoms are not due to testosterone deficiency".

We talk but we do not communicate.

Maybe since I am not a candidate and potential customer, I got tossed in the trash bin.

I also found the reasoning pathetic. You can deny TRT to half the people with that rationale. Or a lot of other treatments for various ailments.

Any input on icarii? A friend of mine said that if it binds to ER, it will ruin my hpta.

All in all, what do you think I should do?

 

[Hai Bodong]

Oh yes. When I signed up with my clinic they ordered labs, then I had a consult. 8 weeks later I had labs and a change in dosage. 8 weeks later another set of labs. That was July and I'll run a new set the first week of March. I'm feeling great and growing stronger in mind and body all the time.

Do you have labs before any medication you can share?

 

[JmarkH]

Do you have labs before any medication you can share?

The attached shows the before as "Previous" and after 8 weeks of protocol.

 

[Hai Bodong]

The attached shows the before as "Previous" and after 8 weeks of protocol.

Not bad actually. How are you libido wise?

Edit: from what I understand, the only reason my FT is there, is because I don't aromatise enough E2. If I were, my FT would probably be 13-14 as well.

 

[JmarkH]

After starting my protocol which is in my signature, my nighttime erections and morning wood all came back. I have more libido than I have need. My next labs were 956 TT, 17.3FT, and 38.4 Estradiol. I'm on a high dose of enclomiphene though.

 

[Systemlord]

And the answer was along the lines "your symptoms are not due to testosterone deficiency".

That's debatable, suboptimal, maybe. You, we are concerned with the estrogen level being at the level of a child and not an adult who went through puberty.

 

[Hai Bodong]

After starting my protocol which is in my signature, my nighttime erections and morning wood all came back. I have more libido than I have need for. My next set of labs was 956 TT, 17.3FT, and 38.4 Estradiol. I'm on a high dose of enclomiphene though.

Any sides from enclomiphene? Is it prescribed by gp or is it ugl?

That's debatable, suboptimal, maybe. You, we are concerned with the estrogen level being at the level of a child and not an adult who went through puberty.

Any suggestions?

 

[JmarkH]

I go through a men's health/antiaging clinic - Matrix Hormones. With clomiphene, I was emotionally more stable than before treatment, however, at about week six there was still room for improvement. With enclomiphene, the reactionary emotions became far more stable and normal. I've had no side effects with enclomiphene. That said, we are all individuals, and our systems do what they are going to do. I don't believe in a one size fits all approach. I think, for whatever reason, my initial labs had unusually higher readings. With those lab results, I cannot figure out why I felt so bad and had all those issues. All I know is what I'm doing now is making a world of difference.
I work in a high-security facility. Yesterday, the armed front desk, who handed me my security badge, took a while to find it. After he pulled it out, he stated that I looked a lot younger than the picture on the badge. The photo is five months old.

 

[Hai Bodong]

That's debatable, suboptimal, maybe. You, we are concerned with the estrogen level being at the level of a child and not an adult who went through puberty.

Would it make sense to try clomid/hcg or enclomiphene/hcg?

 

[Systemlord]

Would it make sense to try clomid/hcg or enclomiphene/hcg?

You have to do whatever you can to get your estrogen ^^. Clomid does come with side effects for a lot of guys and isn’t a long term solution. You won’t get the full effects of estrogen on clomid, because it blocks estrogen’s effects on various organs throughout the body.

 

[Hai Bodong]

You have to do whatever you can to get your estrogen ^^. Clomid does come with side effects for a lot of guys and isn’t a long term solution. You won’t get the full effects of estrogen on clomid, because it blocks estrogen’s effects on various organs throughout the body.

I doubt food and supplements wise, there is any serious solution.

So, trt +hcg would be the only viable way for that? What about hcg monotherapy?

 

[Systemlord]

So, trt +hcg would be the only viable way for that? What about hcg monotherapy?

This is what’s needed for men with low estrogen on TRT, because TRT in isolation doesn’t always increase estrogen in men with suspected aromatase insufficiency, or deficiency.

I recall a few men on TRT with chronically low estrogen even with TT levels 1000> and high FT, where hCG was recommended to be used alongside TRT.

hCG mono therapy may work, but some men can’t tolerate any hCG.

 

[Hai Bodong]

This is what’s needed for men with low estrogen on TRT, because TRT in isolation doesn’t always increase estrogen in men with suspected aromatase insufficiency, or deficiency.

I recall a few men on TRT with chronically low estrogen even with TT levels 1000> and high FT, where hCG was recommended to be used alongside TRT.

hCG mono therapy may work, but some men can’t tolerate any hCG.

Is it because of skyrocketing estrogen?

 

[Hai Bodong]

This is what’s needed for men with low estrogen on TRT, because TRT in isolation doesn’t always increase estrogen in men with suspected aromatase insufficiency, or deficiency.

I recall a few men on TRT with chronically low estrogen even with TT levels 1000> and high FT, where hCG was recommended to be used alongside TRT.

hCG mono therapy may work, but some men can’t tolerate any hCG.

How were they after adding ECG?

 

[Systemlord]

Is it because of skyrocketing estrogen?

No always, LH is pulsatile, and the hCG only mimics LH and isn’t released in a pulsatile fashion. HCG stays in the symptom longer.

It’s not uncommon to hear men say they feel better transitioning from hCG mono therapy to TRT.

That’s not to say that men don’t feel amazing on hCG mono therapy.

 

[Hai Bodong]

No always, LH is pulsatile, and the hCG only mimics LH and isn’t released in a pulsatile fashion. HCG stays in the symptom longer.

It’s not uncommon to hear men say they feel better transitioning from hCG mono therapy to TRT.

That’s not to say that men don’t feel amazing on hCG mono therapy.

Given my wife and I are trying for a baby, would it be more fitting to try hcg monotherapy and then move to TRT?

 

[Systemlord]

Given my wife and I are trying for a baby, would it be more fitting to try hcg monotherapy and then move to TRT?

Yes, maybe even freeze some sperm.

 

[Hai Bodong]

Yes, maybe even freeze some sperm.

Would that be before starting TRT or even monotherapy?

 

[Systemlord]

Would that be before starting TRT or even monotherapy?

Before, because even the hCG will supress LH and FSH. Right now there is nothing suppressing your fertility.