Last Throw of the Dice - advise on Arimidex dosage

[Lowtuk]

Hey everyone,

As you may have seen from my other thread my TRT journey has been anything but smooth and have thought about coming off numerous times. Even actually came off twice to have kids which thankfully went very smoothly.

I have been back on since Nov last year but have really struggled with water retention in the chest, arms and stomach. Have played around with the protocol, magnesium and potassium supplementation, water pills, reduced dosage and increased injection but still blowing up like a balloon despite cutting out alcohol from my diet, hitting weights 3 times a week along side training for an ironman. I also have a super clean diet via a meal plan delivered to me. I Wanted to come off but thought I'd give a lower dose and higher injection frequency a go before I gave up.

Long story short. I'm on 25mg test (sust250) 3 times a week, M/W/F.

My Estradiol was high on the last blood test so am going to try Arimidex to bring it down to see if that helps. I'd like some help re: dosing. Should I take half a tab .5mg once per week on Mondays with my injection and see how I go?

If this doesn't work then my doc is suggestion I try and transition to HCG instead of Test as my trt treatment - anyone tried this? he said because my FSH and LH were low when I first came in before TRT then he feels like HCG alone could boost my Test numbers without the water retention sides I am experiencing with Test?

FSH 5.45. Ref Range 1.5-12.4
LH 7.32. Ref Range 1.7-8.6

 

[Lowtuk]

Didn’t mention the other symptoms. Haven’t had an erection for 3 weeks now, no morning wood. I still have a bit of an interest but zero movement down there! Also headaches and tired

 

[Nelson Vergel]

, water pills

Which ones? What dose?
Arimidex is not a diuretic. It does not improve bloating.

 

[Lowtuk]

Solgar herbal water pills
3 pills per day
Picture of the make up of the pills

My bloat comes and goes with the injections and my weight goes up and down by 2k-3kg.

Will the Arimidex help with the ED and the post injection water and the stomach fat?

My biggest issue is no weight loss and no reduction in belly in last 6 months where I’be completely changed my lifestyle, no drinking, healthy eating in calorie deficit provided by a healthy meal plan macro counted service and I’m lifting 3 times a week and training triathlon and have run 2 half marathons and a 70.3 Ironman on that 6 months so with eveything I am 100% in a calorie deficit but not losing weight or body comp changing.

Im 195cm tall and weigh 112kg and have been stuck bouncing between 110-112kg since November with all of the extra training and calorie restriction etc…

Got basic blood tests for total test and estradiol back and going back in 2 weeks for full tests as per below:

Total test 620 Nmo/l
Estradiol 37 pg/ml

Total test
Free test
E2
Full blood count
CRP
sHBG
pSA
Cholesterol
Potassium
Magnesium

 

[Lowtuk]

Update.

I got Lasix today and have taken a 20mg pill twice 8 hours apart. Will do this for 5 days and see how that goes? Any advice?

Is 5 days enough to see if it is working?

I have my deeper blood tests on Tuesday so will have more info

If the oasis doesnt work then I think my only option is to try the arimidex.

If I have to try arimidex? Can I get advise on dosage? Also how long will it take for me to know whether it is working?

 

[Lowtuk]

2 days on Lasix and no reduction in belly volume. Weight has dropped by 2 lbs but have felt pretty shitty today, super fatigued and some heart palpitations.

Im not sure if I’m explaining my issue correctly as water weight/bloat or not so have taken a couple of pictures. From this are you able to make an educated assessment as to whether this is standard belly fat, hormonal E2, water/bloat, too many carbs?

Any help is greatly appreciated

 

[DixieWrecked]

I know what you mean. Testosterone does give a certain look to a lot of people. I see the high testosterone guys at the gym and they have that large look that is almost completely undefined, red bloated faces. Which is cool if they were just trying to be mass monster strongman types but many are just metro professionals and it looks like total shit.

I carry water around my midsection with test similar to your pics. My appendages look super lean but torso, not the same.

 

[Lowtuk]

Is there anything you’ve managed to solve the issue of the weight around the stomach? Or is it just a case of coming off the trt to solve it?

 

[DixieWrecked]

There's been a few times where I got it down. In my experience controlling estrogen does help some. But the best thing seems to be using shorter esters. The longer the ester the greater the water retention. Prop was dryer than cyp and cream was the driest. But the shorter esters don't seem to be as useful for actual lean mass gain and strength. There's just no free lunch. You just gotta choose what you want but it sounds like a shorter ester would be more beneficial for your application of endurance training.

 

[RobRoy]

You are the issue not testosterone. It's your body dysmorphia that's the problem. We don't retain fluid and just the chest and arms and belly. When we retain fluid you're going to notice it first and foremost in the feet and ankles. You need to clean up your diet and need to do some cardio exercise because quite frankly you have a high body fat percentage. Testosterone increases sodium absorption and that's what causes the fluid retention as it has nothing to do with estradiol. Clean up your diet and cut out all the sodium intake and do some cardio. A lot of cardio. You need to leave everything alone for at least six months to a year and during that time frame bust your ass. You have unrealistic expextations if you think you're just going to take testosterones and everything is going to be great by putting in just a little bit of work. It doesn't work that way

Made the statement recently and I'm gonna make it again because it's true. If you're having problems with testosterone it's you not the testosterone. Done correctly with appropriate expectations as well as putting in the required sweat equity it's very easy.

 

[DixieWrecked]

You are the issue not testosterone. It's your body dysmorphia that's the problem. We don't retain fluid and just the chest and arms and belly. When we retain fluid you're going to notice it first and foremost in the feet and ankles. You need to clean up your diet and need to do some cardio exercise because quite frankly you have a high body fat percentage. Testosterone increases sodium absorption and that's what causes the fluid retention as it has nothing to do with estradiol. Clean up your diet and cut out all the sodium intake and do some cardio. A lot of cardio. You need to leave everything alone for at least six months to a year and during that time frame bust your ass. You have unrealistic expextations if you think you're just going to take testosterones and everything is going to be great by putting in just a little bit of work. It doesn't work that way

Made the statement recently and I'm gonna make it again because it's true. If you're having problems with testosterone it's you not the testosterone. Done correctly with appropriate expectations as well as putting in the required sweat equity it's very easy.

Man you really went out on a limb here and made some assumptions. Diagnosed the dude with body dismorphia and everything. Sorry but it's very real that longer esters result in more water retention. I've experienced this first hand and anyone with experience knows it can happen. If you don't that's awesome or maybe you haven't tried shorter esters. At any rate it's not up to you to decide what another person should accept as a part of their therapy. We all weigh out the pros and cons and optimise things the best we can.

 

[Lowtuk]

You are the issue not testosterone. It's your body dysmorphia that's the problem. We don't retain fluid and just the chest and arms and belly. When we retain fluid you're going to notice it first and foremost in the feet and ankles. You need to clean up your diet and need to do some cardio exercise because quite frankly you have a high body fat percentage. Testosterone increases sodium absorption and that's what causes the fluid retention as it has nothing to do with estradiol. Clean up your diet and cut out all the sodium intake and do some cardio. A lot of cardio. You need to leave everything alone for at least six months to a year and during that time frame bust your ass. You have unrealistic expextations if you think you're just going to take testosterones and everything is going to be great by putting in just a little bit of work. It doesn't work that way

Made the statement recently and I'm gonna make it again because it's true. If you're having problems with testosterone it's you not the testosterone. Done correctly with appropriate expectations as well as putting in the required sweat equity it's very easy.

How much cardio?

I run 7-12k 3 times per week. Cycle 40k twice and do a 100k on a sat plus 2 swim sessions?

Could add some events on top of the 2X half marathons and half Ironman so far this year?

 

[testiculus]

Will the Arimidex help with the ED and the post injection water and the stomach fat?

My biggest issue is no weight loss and no reduction in belly in last 6 months where I’be completely changed my lifestyle, no drinking, healthy eating in calorie deficit provided by a healthy meal plan macro counted service and I’m lifting 3 times a week and training triathlon and have run 2 half marathons and a 70.3 Ironman on that 6 months so with eveything I am 100% in a calorie deficit but not losing weight or body comp changing.

Im 195cm tall and weigh 112kg and have been stuck bouncing between 110-112kg since November with all of the extra training and calorie restriction etc…

Got basic blood tests for total test and estradiol back and going back in 2 weeks for full tests as per below:

Total test 620 Nmo/l
Estradiol 37 pg/ml

Your E2 isn't high. You could try a microdose of anastrozole to shift your test/e2 ratio. I only take 30 mcg with each injection.

However, the symptoms you describe don't seem to be associated with elevated E2. If you had water retention, the lasix would have resolved it. You're not loosing weight/fat because you're not actually in a caloric deficit. Start weighing everything you eat and enter it into food tracker. Reduce your calories by 200/day, if after a couple of weeks weight still isn't going down, reduce it again. If hunger is a problem, increase protein.

 

[Lowtuk]

Your E2 isn't high. You could try a microdose of anastrozole to shift your test/e2 ratio. I only take 30 mcg with each injection.

However, the symptoms you describe don't seem to be associated with elevated E2. If you had water retention, the lasix would have resolved it. You're not loosing weight/fat because you're not actually in a caloric deficit. Start weighing everything you eat and enter it into food tracker. Reduce your calories by 200/day, if after a couple of weeks weight still isn't going down, reduce it again. If hunger is a problem, increase protein.

Thanks, I get a macro counter meal plan delivered which puts me in a deficit at 2000 per day and my BMR is 2400 and I’m easily burning 600-1000 in exercise.

I went to see my gastro doctor today as I have Ulcerative Colitis so she has said to go on a strict elimination diet as she feels I’m suffering with a ton of bloat via gastro distress.

So will start on that for next month and keep my protocol the same and see what happens.

 

[Seagal]

I went to see my gastro doctor today as I have Ulcerative Colitis

If you knew that you should have mentioned it!

Why is it so difficult to distinguish between bloat and water retention....

@RobRoy There you go.

 

[Lowtuk]

Got the more detailed blood tests back.

I am on a M/W/F injection schedule and took my 25mg injection on the Monday and had the test on Tuesday and took my injection today.

Total Testosterone 9.88ng/ml
Free Test 239(2.42%)pg/ml
Sensitive Estradiol 49.35pg/ml
SHBG 33 nmol/L

How do these numbers look? Test and Estradiol look high but I'm only on 75mg a week across three shots?

Is this Estradiol number a concern?

 

[Seagal]

I would use the minimal effective dosage, whatever that is for you.

There have been so many posts and discussions on estradiol here... The answer to your question depends on who responds...

My opinion:
I think you should focus your efforts on resolving the
Ulcerative Colitis.

 

[Cataceous]

...
How do these numbers look? Test and Estradiol look high but I'm only on 75mg a week across three shots?
...

In reality 75 mg TC/week is a middling-to-high dose relative to normal physiology. You could cut your dose by 30+% and still have higher numbers than the average healthy young guy from 30 years ago. I would experiment with lower doses if you continue to have problems in spite of changes in diet. A further option is to switch to daily injections of a cypionate/propionate blend. The resulting variation in serum testosterone allows for even lower doses without loss of benefits. For example, I use the equivalent of 44 mg TC/week, yet still have a daily serum peak of about 700 ng/dL.

 

[Lowtuk]

unfortunately my only option is sustanon as I’m in the Middle East and we only have access to sust or neibido

Wouod this still work to drop from 25mg per injection to 15mg?

 

[Charliebizz]

unfortunately my only option is sustanon as I’m in the Middle East and we only have access to sust or neibido

Wouod this still work to drop from 25mg per injection to 15mg?

Oh that sucks. I was going recommend the compounded cream. Works wonders for me